First FreeNAS build hardware recommendation needed (relocated)

[mhweb]

Hello,

I've been trying for weeks to come up with a hardware configuration to build a powerful FreeNAS box, but I don't seem to get it right as either I come up with something overkill (according to other people) or hardware compatibility is questionable.

Originally, I wanted to build a FreeNAS using an AMD Ryzen 5 CPU (https://pcpartpicker.com/user/mhweb/saved/#view=Gjn4nQ ), but it seems that no many people use AMD, and even the few I could find, most of them had some problems running the box.

So, I'm looking for help to find the right Intel configuration. Because of space constraints, I'm looking to build this FreeNAS build using the Fractal Design Node 804 MicroATX Mid Tower Case. Also, I'm planning to use G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Intel Z370 Platform Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16Q-32GTZB because I already have this memory kit from another build.

In addition, I want to 5 five 10TB HDD for the storage. I have a 120GB SSD, which I'm planning to use as the boot drive. And I would like to add two more SSDs for cache and logs.

The FreeNAS will be used to store and serve files. Plex to stream videos. In the future, I would like to stream 4K videos as well. And possible other plugins and may be a VM.

Budget for the box is around $1000 without the hard drives.

Any hardware suggestions will be appreciated.

Update: I'm posting this again in the correct forum.

 

[anmnz]

Have you looked at some of the hardware suggestions in the "Resources" section of this forum?

https://www.ixsystems.com/community/resources/categories/hardware.1/

https://www.ixsystems.com/community/resources/freenas®-quick-hardware-guide.7/

https://www.ixsystems.com/community/resources/hardware-recommendations-guide.12/

https://www.ixsystems.com/community/resources/specific-build-components-list-up-to-32gb-ram.109/

And so on.

I would be very careful about restricting yourself to the RAM you happen to have. IMO you should be open to selling it. For example you can get pretty amazing bang-for-the-buck with used or old-stock server parts using DDR3 RDIMMs.

 

[Heracles]

Hi mhweb,

As a matter of overkill, a 120G SSD for boot is surely one case. SSDs are more reliable than USB and for that, many prefer to use them as boot device. But 120G is way -WAY- more than needed. Here, I chose to use mirrored USB sticks instead. The mirror will help sustain first problems with USBs and in all cases, a re-install / config restore is not that bad for me.

The 2 others SSD you are planning are also probably overkill. Remember that you will be limited by your network bandwidth in all cases. Also, streaming big files will leave you with not much re-usable data in ARC / L2ARC. As for the SLOG and speeding writes, your use case does not represent any significant write load.

The most intensive write access would be VMs but you mentioned a single one and that one would be running locally. Should you plan for many VMs running from an external ESXi server, that would be different...

So I would save the money for all of these SSD.

5 drives in Raid-Z2 will leave you with 3 drives of usable space. Maybe go for an extra drive or 2. A 6 or 7 HDD wide vDev in Raid-Z2 will give you better efficiency than a 5 HDD one. In all case, I would avoid Raid-Z1.

And as ANMNZ said, to avoid desktop stuff is recommended...

have fun designing your system,

 

[mhweb]

@anmnz Yes, I did check the links, but I'm having a hard time matching what I want to build.
I was planning to use an AMD Ryzen 5 2660x with an ASRock X570M Pro4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard which comes around $350 for both new. However, when I look at the prices for what's recommended, I can't get my head around that I have to pay more for parts are that older and motherboard, such as Supermicro, that are super expensive.

Also, I understand about the RAM, but I've been trying to sale stuff in the past and usually doesn't work out for me very well. I want didn't want to end with RAM that I don't what to do with it.

PS: I do appreciate the help. Thanks,

 

[mhweb]

@Heracles,
The 120G SSD, I know is overkill, but I already have this drive, and I don't know what to do with it. So I thought on using it for the build. The 2 extra SSD, I thought about it recently, and you're right about that those too. Even further, when combining drives in a RAID, I think the drive will even be faster than the SSDs.

 

[Heracles]

Hi again mhweb,

About drives grouped in a vDev being faster... Not really. Consider that a single Raid-Z vDev will give you the performance of a single drive. For some access like long sequential reads, it can be a little faster, but a 5 drives Raid-Z2 vDev will not give you a speed much higher than the speed of the slowest drive it contains.

 

[mhweb]

@Heracles Are you suggesting that adding a 6th or 7th drive will increase the speed? Or it's always going to be the speed of the slowest drive? Thanks,

 

[mhweb]

How about this configuration https://pcpartpicker.com/list/nzLBDx

 

[joeinaz]

Do you have to use a Ryzen solution? My suggestion is to consider using Intel based Supermicro system. I recently sold a tower supporting 12 disks which was complete and ready to simply add disk and use for around $400. I am preparing to sell an X10 tower (inccluding CPU, and 16 GB of EEC RAM) that supports 10 removable disks and has FreeNAS preinstalled. i expect it will sell for about half of your total budget. You could use the other half of your budget to get two more 10TB disks and dramatically increase your storage. In any case, you use older Supermicro product, you construct a nice system for considerably less than your budget.

 

[mhweb]

@joeinaz I don't have to use a Ryzen solution. The only reason I wanted to use AMD was because of the price and newer hardware. The problem right now is that I'm new to FreeNAS, and I've using the recommendation guide (https://www.ixsystems.com/community/resources/freenas®-quick-hardware-guide.7/ ) to select the hardware, and I don't have too much to choose from, and when I see the prices for those Coffee Lake motherboard from Supermicro and Xeon processors (Supermicro X11SCH-LN4F ($270) and Intel Xeon E-2176G ($370)) is a lot of money for older hardware models.

The other thing is that I already have 32GB of RAM, so I was trying to match that with hardware I'm planning to buy, which is non-ecc. (I could be willing to forget this RAM, and buy new one, if I can just find the right hardware.)

Ideally, I would like to build a FreeNAS that can handle file storage with at least 5 to 6 10TB hard drives. I want to use Plex too, and I would like something powerful to at least do one smooth 4K video transcoding. I also would like the hardware to last for a few years. I'm talking of something of something that doesn't become obsolete quickly.

In addition, because, of limited space, I'm looking to build this on Fractal Design Node 804 MicroATX Mid Tower Case.

If you have any suggestion, it would really appreciated it.

PS: I didn't know selecting hardware for this project would be this difficult.
Thanks,

 

[joeinaz]

"I don't have too much to choose from, and when I see the prices for those Coffee Lake motherboard from Supermicro and Xeon processors (Supermicro X11SCH-LN4F ($270) and Intel Xeon E-2176G ($370)) is a lot of money for older hardware models."

Right now the sweet spot for FreeNAS price/performance is the single processor x9 SuperMicro motherboard. The x9 board I have has 8 memory slots and supports up to 512GB of RAM. The socket 2011 x9 motherboards start at less than $75 on eBay. $50 gets you 16GB of ECC RAM. A processor with similar compute power to the E-2176G (the E5-2680-V2) is $160 on eBay. A CPU fan is around $30. So for less than the cost of the E-2176G processor, you can get motherboard, processor, ECC memory, and a fan.

"Ideally, I would like to build a FreeNAS that can handle file storage with at least 5 to 6 10TB hard drives."

The size of the individual disks mean RAID-Z2 will be highly recommended. This means the capacity of two disk are lost to "parity" but your NAS could withstand the failure of 2 disks. Six 10TB disks will give you the effective capacity of just under 40TB. 10TB disks are running over $250 new so 6 six such disks would run over $1000. Keeping a "spare" disk on hand is also prohibitively expensive. If it were me looking at supporting just under 40TB, I would look at a case which could could support twelve or more 3.5" disks and use 4TB disks. eBay has 4TB disks sold in lots. For example, a lot of twenty 4TB disks were going for $800 and this would leave a few spares and even a few to resell.

"In addition, because, of limited space, I'm looking to build this on Fractal Design Node 804 MicroATX Mid Tower Case."

I have 2 mid-towers and both can house twelve 3.5" disks. Let me know if you need suggestions.

"I want to use Plex too, and I would like something powerful to at least do one smooth 4K video transcoding. I also would like the hardware to last for a few years. I'm talking of something of something that doesn't become obsolete quickly."

Don't get caught up in the need to have the latest and greatest technology. Today I did a firmware update on a customer server that is 10 years old. As long as your motherboard has a quantity of (x4 or better) PCIe slots and supports DDR3 RAM you should be in good shape. Generally when purchasing hardware the important thing is the power supply. Invest in a brand name higher wattage power supply and all should be well.

"I didn't know selecting hardware for this project would be this difficult."

The good news is you can learn from everyone else instead of building multiple systems like I did..

 

[mhweb]

@joeinaz what motherboard exactly do you have? I looked into the x9 mobos and I know you said no to pay attention too much to needing to have the latest tech, but pretty much all of them are discontinued products.
Thanks,

 

[joeinaz]

"what motherboard exactly do you have? I"
I have an X9SRL-F in my main system. I also have an X9SRI-F just sitting on the shelf as a spare or to sell.

"I know you said no to pay attention too much to needing to have the latest tech, but pretty much all of them are discontinued products."

A "discontinued product" still works. In the case of the "latest tech" my recommendations are within reason. As, an example, I would not recommend a system that uses IDE disks or DDR2 memory. IDE and DDR2 technology is too old to be useful. On the other hand, the most widely recommended SAS HBA for FreeNAS installation (the M1015) is over 10 years old!

When looking at newer technology, the big benefits include lower power usage, and newer technologies such as USB3 and m.2 slots. The good news about server grade motherboards is the abundance of PCIe slots which allow me to add new technologies via a card.

Be careful about choosing a SuperMicro motherboard because the specs can widely vary within the family. I choose my x9 boards for 4 reasons:

1. The single socket board fit in an ATX format (the dual socket boards require and E-ATX case)
2. The massive memory potential (256-512GB)of the board. Memory is not potentially a limiting factor.
3. The 2011 socket offers a large range of price/performance in CPU choice.
4. Inexpensive DDR3 DIMMs are used. I have seen 64GB available in ebay for less than $100

All the money saved on the system means I can buy more disk!

My $0.02 ...

 

[mhweb]

This is the current configuration I was able to come up with:

CPU: Xeon E5-2680-V2: $100 to $165
SuperMicro X10SRL-F ATX: $210 (The X9SRI-F was only $10, didn't see the benefit of going older with tiny difference.)
SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold: $100
CPU Cooler: Noctua Noctua-NH-U12DX-Premium-Cooler-LGA20xx: $65
Case: Fracal Define r5: $130
Memory: 32GB (4x 8GB): $90

Total: $760
Still doesn't look like a budget build? Or does this look like a lot of money for what it's?
Are we using older hardware because of compatibility or to save money?
Similar build using newer parts (AMD Ryzen 5 2600X) is only $60 more. (It's not that I want to use AMD, I'm just trying to justify the money for the older hardware.)

Thanks for advise.

 

[joeinaz]

"CPU: Xeon E5-2680-V2: $100 to $165"
Check the documentation on your X10 motherboard; I believe it recommends a E5-26xx V3 or V4 CPU.

"SuperMicro X10SRL-F ATX: $210 (The X9SRI-F was only $10, didn't see the benefit of going older with tiny difference.)"

The focus on the x9 motherboards in the past was due to the fact they offered the best "bang for the buck" in a single CPU offering. One of the big costs in the recent past was DDR4 ECC memory. The good news is the cost of DDR4 (in general) has come way down recently. The x10 board you choose is not bad.

"Total: $760
Still doesn't look like a budget build? Or does this look like a lot of money for what it's?
Are we using older hardware because of compatibility or to save money?"

If you are interested in a "budget" system, I am about to sell a second system (just add disk) on eBay before the end of the month. It is a custom mid-tower, on wheels, has x10 board, 16GB of RAM (2 open DIMM slots), slots for 10 removable disks from the front panel, 2 additional 5.25" bays and 3.5" bay as well. It will start on eBay at $400. At that point I will still have two extra NAS boxes to sell as I am finally getting around to cleaning up my den...

"Similar build using newer parts (AMD Ryzen 5 2600X) is only $60 more. (It's not that I want to use AMD, I'm just trying to justify the money for the older hardware.)"

What motherboard would you use with the Ryzen CPU? Typically, older "server" motherboards that have a large memory space (>32GB) and support ECC memory are less than new ones.

 

[mhweb]

@joeinaz you're right about the CPU compatibility with motherboard.

I just realized that the AMD system was even cheaper this is the list https://pcpartpicker.com/list/YxGpgJ

My original thought was to build a small device with the Fractal Design Node 804 MicroATX Mid Tower Case, and the motherboard I found that would fit was the new ASRock X570M. The other reason is that I already have the 32GB of RAM that will fit, they're not ECC though. The price of build, before drives of course, is $621 at this time.

The reason why I was moving away from the original AMD build was because I was getting told that it was too much of a machine, but my thought was building something that will not be obsolete for a few years, and because I read a few cases of people having issues with Ryzen CPUs.

Thanks,

 

[joeinaz]

The key to optimal system building is knowing the application and knowing the hardware. Focus on the application. You could put together an acceptable (and less expensive) FreeNAS system with 10 year old hardware. This would not be true if you want to play the latest games.For me the FreeNAS solution has the following attributes:

• Many (x4 or larger) PCIe slots
• Two or more Gigabit Ethernet ports (not including remote management)
• Many DIMM slots (to go along with a large memory space)
• At least DDR3 with ECC support
• An "IT mode" HBA and expander (if needed)
• A QUALITY power supply of at least 500w
• A case to hold a large number of disks
• A wide choice of CPUs including a large number of cores and or low power

The last system I sold (for about $400) had all of the aforementioned attributes. It can be done on a budget...

 

[Chris Moore]

Total: $760
Still doesn't look like a budget build? Or does this look like a lot of money for what it's?
Are we using older hardware because of compatibility or to save money?

You are not going old enough. FreeNAS really doesn't benefit much from new hardware so we go old because it saves from wasted money. The cost is just not worth the performance increase especially when the slow point for performance is usually the drives. Have a look at this build list:

Specific build changes to upgrade as high as 512GB of RAM

This is intended as a modification to the list of hardware I put together here: https://www.ixsystems.com/community/resources/specific-build-components-list-up-to-32gb-ram.109/ Be aware, this is a totally different system board with a totally...

www.ixsystems.com

 

[macatarere]

I'd be happy with this, 65USD m/b cpu ram ;-)

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[Chris Moore]

I'd be happy with this, 65USD m/b cpu ram ;-)

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I think this one would be a better value, because it has memory and CPU that are ECC capable. It just needs a little more memory.

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