synology alternative build

[Homelabnewb]

Hi everyone. I have a small home network that consists of a general purpose linux server (Sorry BSD guys) that runs a number of docker containers. I have two inexpensive 1tb WD Nas devices that I use for network storage. One is the primary and it backs up to the other on a nightly basis. I am not thrilled with the setup and they are running out of space. They also don't do NFS which would be really helpful for the container volumes. I am planning on replacing the NAS devices with something new. I have used Freenas in the past for temporary labs where I didn't really care about reliability and just ran it on whatever hardware I had around. I am a fan of the product and I would love to have a reliable freenas solution for my home network. I plan on backing up to backblaze cloud as an offsite solution. So here is my conundrum.

I am super busy with work projects and I have also recently become a father. This means that my free time for doing things like researching and tracking down good compatible hardware deals is almost nil. I did look at the hardware guides and recommendations and realized that I may be better off just purchasing an off the shelf nas solution. My current plan is to purchase a synology ds418play for $429 and add x4 2tb WD Red drives for about $325. That is already more than I wanted to spend on the project but I figure if I invest now it will last me longer and I'll have less headaches. The nas will be primarily used to host data shares, nfs shares for containers, backup to a cloud service for offise (probably backblaze but I haven't done enough research yet), and possibly run some light jails. Encoding etc will probably just be handled by my linux server.

I would prefer to use freenas. If any energetic community member would be willing to spend some of their valuable time helping me out by pointing me towards freenas compatible hardware that falls into the same price range and performance I would absolutely go that route instead of the synology. I plan on making the purchase in mid January after I receive my annual bonus but if there is some great deal to be had I could make the purchase sooner. Here are my list of priorities.

1. Cost. I am not willing or able to spend more than $750 for everything including drives

2. Form factor. My home is not wired for ethernet. The device will be going on/under a desk. It cannot be rack mount. A small device is ideal but a tower would be okay. I understand the advantages of hotswap drives but I did read in a recent post that in a home environment due to dust sometimes it's better to not do hotswap. I'm open to either option. I'm not afraid to open a computer. I've built every one I've ever owned.

3. Power draw. I would much prefer something that is reasonably power efficient and not an old processor architecture that will nail me every month on the power bill.

4. Everything else. Obviously I would want a reliable system. Some expansion room would be a nice bonus as well.

Sorry about the long post. I just wanted to be really thorough so anyone who wanted to lend a helping hand had all of the information and I wasn't wasting their time. Thanks a million for taking the time to read this and thanks two million in advance for anyone willing to spend their time helping me out!

 

[Chris Moore]

I have two inexpensive 1tb WD Nas devices that I use for network storage.

I had that before switching to FreeNAS. The one I had was horrifically slow.

My current plan is to purchase a synology ds418play for $429 and add x4 2tb WD Red drives for about $325.

I hate to see that happen. Synology is not a good storage system, despite their popularity.

I would prefer to use freenas. If any energetic community member would be willing to spend some of their valuable time helping me out by pointing me towards freenas compatible hardware that falls into the same price range and performance I would absolutely go that route instead of the synology.

I have been known to help with this sort of thing.

Cost. I am not willing or able to spend more than $750 for everything including drives

If you only need a few drives, that might be workable, however

I would much prefer something that is reasonably power efficient and not an old processor architecture that will nail me every month on the power bill.

The lower power hardware tends to be newer and more expensive where the less expensive hardware tends to be older and burn a little more power. It is often a bit of a trade between paying a little more each month in power vs paying a lot more initial investment for the hardware. Like buying a new car, it looses value as soon as you drive it away. Many times you are paying a premium just because it is new and the only real value you get is the lower power consumption (higher gas mileage).

What is the total amount of storage you anticipate needing within the next three to five years?

 

[Homelabnewb]

Hi Chris,
In the research that I did have time to do on the forums I noticed that you seem to be very active and knowledgeable. Thanks again for taking the time to read my post and respond and bravo for all of the good work you are doing here.

To answer your question I am currently using about 1 tb of storage. If I were to go the off the shelf nas route I would be planning to install x4 2tb drives with a raid 6 configuration giving me just under 4tb of usable storage with x2 drives for parity and hot spare. That would allow me to quadrupal my data over the next 3-5 years while having acceptable hardware redundancy.

I completely understand what you mean about the age of hardware and power consumption. That was one of the issues I was struggling with when I started to do my own research. I would prefer modern hardware with lower power consumption but in real terms I don't know how much of a difference in hardware performance that would make, or how much the power bill would fluctuate in each scenario. I guess that's where I was hoping someone with more experience could tell me that either

1. Yes older hardware will be much more cost effective, give much better performance, and only really cost a few more dollars a month in power
OR
2. Newer hardware will save tens of dollars per month in power and will still perform good enough for my use case.

I realize there are too many variables like price of power, load on system etc, to really speak in absolutes but I have absolutely no idea which is generally more true. I would defer to the experts and take your recommendation.

Purchasing a used pre-built system is attractive to me because it would save me the time and effort of assembling everything and dealing with any unexpected RMA issues etc. While at the same time new components would be nice for warranty and life span.

 

[Homelabnewb]

It struck me last night that I might be thinking about this project backwards. My current linux server is this machine but upgraded to x4 4gb dimms for a total of 16gb of ecc ram. powerspec s610
Perhaps my best route would be to install the WD red drives in this server and set it up as the frenas box. Then I could spend my ~$500 on a new linux server to run my docker containers. Maybe a nuc or something. Does that make sense or am I better off leaving my current system alone and building/purchasing a machine for freenas?

 

[pro lamer]

nuc or something.

Which rig would take care of transcoding in this case?

Sent from my phone

 

[Homelabnewb]

In both scenarios I would have Freenas basically just sharing data. The linux server would be running any workloads like transcoding.

 

[pro lamer]

new linux server to run my docker containers. Maybe a nuc or something.

linux server would be running any workloads like transcoding.

Just make sure it's powerful enough for the type of transcoding you're planning or has room for a decent GPU in case you go for more demanding transcode scenarios in future - transcoding may need lots of horsepower ;) in some cases...

Sent from my phone

 

[Homelabnewb]

Thanks for the tip. Maybe I'll skip the nuc and do a tower instead. Any thoughts on if the powerspec s610 would make a good freenas box?

 

[Chris Moore]

Maybe I'll skip the nuc and do a tower instead.

Using a NUC for FreeNAS is completely incompatible with the purpose of FreeNAS. If you can't dedicate proper hardware to the project, please use some other software, and there are plenty of other options out there.

These are some hardware selections I posted in the past to help others. I am just copying them here. The auctions may have finished and eBay will try to redirect to some other item. Please be sure to look at the original item as these suggestions can be used to construct a system for around $500.

I have had very good luck over the years with retired data-center gear and I have only had one component fail, a SAS HBA, and even that was probably my fault for not having enough air flow to keep it cool.

I used a system board like this for more than two years to run my NAS:

Supermicro X9SCM-F LGA 1155/Socket H2 DDR3 Motherboard with Heatsink/Fan & I/O Shield - - US $75.00
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273350608871
You have to get components that are compatible, but you can do everything you need to do with this board.
However, I would attach the data drives to a SAS controller instead of connecting them to the system board.
SATA drives work perfectly on SAS controllers:

Dell-H310-6Gbps-SAS-HBA-w-LSI-9211-8i-P20-IT-Mode-for-ZFS-FreeNAS - - US $56.55
https://www.ebay.com/itm/162834659601
One of those and a set of cables:

2x-Mini-SAS-to-4-SATA-SFF-8087-Multi-Lane-Forward-Breakout-Internal-Cable - - US $12.89
https://www.ebay.com/itm/372255907421
will handle 8 drives no problem.

8GB-Memory-RAM-for-SuperMicro-X9-Series-X9SCM-F-X9SCL-F-O-X9SCD-F-X9SCM-X9SC - - US $82.00
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163130855012

Intel-Xeon-E3-1230-Quad-Core-Server-CPU-3-2GHz-LGA-1155-SR00H - - US $48
https://www.ebay.com/itm/173447266214

That is $276.43 of parts and it gives you a server grade system board with a quad core Xeon CPU, 8GB of ECC memory and a SAS controller to run the data drives. I don't know what your components add up to, but I used a rig like this for a couple years and I know it will work. Like any hardware, you can't know if it will fail and this doesn't carry a warranty, but my experience would tell me, the likelihood of failure would be low. Drives are the thing that fails most often and I am not suggesting buying those used.



Intel Xeon Processor E3-1230 v2 8M Cache, 3.30 GHz SR0P4 TESTED - - US $99.95
https://www.ebay.com/itm/223007566701



I know that I suggested other hardware to you in a different thread, but for a seriously low cost build, this might be worth considering:
I just suggested something like this to someone else a couple weeks ago, but I couldn't find the post to point you at.
Here is what I would suggest for a tower build that you want quiet and inexpensive while still capable.

CASE: Fractal-Design-Define-R5-FD-CA-DEF-R5-BK-Black-Silent-ATX-Midtower-Computer-Case - US $99.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/263674323506

POWER: Corsair-Certified-CS-M-Series-CS650M-650W-80-Plus-Gold-Active-PFC-Modular-Power - US $64.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/382130407495

System Board: Super Micro X9SCM-F Motherboard w/ Heatsink/Fan & I/O Shield - US $75.00
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273350608871

CPU: Intel SR00H Xeon E3-1230 3.20GHZ Socket 1155 - - US $55.09
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273313040616

Memory: 8GB Memory RAM for SuperMicro X9 Series - - US $82.00 * 2 = $164
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163130855012

Drive Controller: LSI-SAS-9211-8i-8-port-6Gb-s-PCI-E-Internal-HBA-Both-Brackets-IT-MODE - US $59.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/152937435505

Drive Cables: Mini SAS to 4-SATA SFF-8087 Multi-Lane Forward Breakout Internal Cable - - US $12.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/371681252206

Thermal Compound: Noctua NT-H1 Thermal Paste Grease Conductive Compound for CPU/GPU - US $6.95
https://www.ebay.com/itm/302624513215

I may have missed some accessories, and I didn't include drives, but this should get you all the key components and it is at $539 as of 18 July 2018
I just picked these on eBay and they are all available right now.

 

[Homelabnewb]

Sorry I wasn't clear when I was talking about the nuc I meant that I could repurpose my existing powerspec s610 linux server to be the freenas server if it's compatible and purchase a nuc/tower to be a linux server. I wouldn't try using a nuc for freenas. Does anyone know if the hardware in the powerspec s610 server would be compatible? Here are the specs powerspec s610

This is the only thread that I've ever posted on so I don't think you suggested any other hardware to me. You may be confusing me with another person asking a similar question.

Thanks for all of the links and suggestions I'll take a look.

 

[pro lamer]

Maybe I'll skip the nuc and do a tower instead

I've realized there are some nucs with ~10000 passmark points and they may live transcode even some 4K h.264 videos... I guess those nucs cost more than your $500 budget and h.265 would be too much for them so a tower may be an option (at least a tower has room for a GPU in case you need it in future). We have more threads about transcoding and emby or plex forums have even more threads...

Having said that - some in our forums (including @Chris Moore) say that 4K is usually not needed (or something similar - I can't recall exact words). In such case - ie if FullHD was enough - less horsepower nucs would do the transcoding job. Dunno if they are enough for docker... And towers or non-small-form-factor motherboards have more room for future proof/growth... (Should you need it)

Does anyone know if the hardware in the powerspec s610 server would be compatible? Here are the specs powerspec s610

Hopefully someone else than me answers this question since I think I know nothing about it at least not from the top of my head... Nor I feel experienced enough to recommend something directly.

Sent from my phone

 

[Chris Moore]

Having said that - some in our forums (including @Chris Moore) say that 4K is usually not needed (or something similar - I can't recall exact words). In such case - ie if FullHD was enough

The bottom line up front is this, most people can't see the difference between 1080p and 4k if they are sitting six feet (two meters) from the screen. If you can't see the difference, why worry about it. The average person can't see well enough. A 4k screen might make a difference if you are sitting closer than that, but most people sit back when they are watching a movie. It is not me saying this, it is the results of research. Can't fight science.

Multiple sources:

first: https://www.cnet.com/news/why-ultra-hd-4k-tvs-are-still-stupid/

second: https://www.quora.com/Do-we-need-4K...esolution-make-no-difference-to-the-human-eye

third: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/buying-4k-tv-right-now-waste-money/

 

[Constantin]

Then there is the issue of suitable source material... Unless the content was made after 2000, chances are that a blu-Ray transfer (1080p) is only marginally better than a well-mastered dvd (the few exceptions prove the rule). The next step up (ie 4K end-end production) is only now becoming common.

I guess it comes in part down to taste, recent movies vs. older stuff. Plus, higher resolutions and new content delivery systems seem to have always mattered most to the sports and the adult entertainment industries.

 

[Homelabnewb]

Sorry I may have sidetracked this thread by accident. Let me re-focus.
I have a server already with the following specs. Does anyone know if it will run freenas? I'm not worried about the encoding etc right now.
Processor
Intel® Xeon® Processor E3-1270

System Board
Supermicro X9SCA-F

System Memory
16GB (4- 4096MB) DDR3 1333 Unbuffered ECC UDIMM

LAN
Intel® Dual Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet

Power Supply
465 Watts

If these components are okay would I need to add anything additional like a drive controller?

 

[Constantin]

The nas will be primarily used to host data shares, nfs shares for containers, backup to a cloud service for offise (probably backblaze but I haven't done enough research yet), and possibly run some light jails. Encoding etc will probably just be handled by my linux server.
1. Cost. I am not willing or able to spend more than $750 for everything including drives
2. Form factor. My home is not wired for ethernet. The device will be going on/under a desk. It cannot be rack mount. A small device is ideal but a tower would be okay. I understand the advantages of hotswap drives but I did read in a recent post that in a home environment due to dust sometimes it's better to not do hotswap. I'm open to either option. I'm not afraid to open a computer. I've built every one I've ever owned.
3. Power draw. I would much prefer something that is reasonably power efficient and not an old processor architecture that will nail me every month on the power bill.
4. Everything else. Obviously I would want a reliable system. Some expansion room would be a nice bonus as well.

Your best bet may be a used system from ebay to stay in the desired power/cost/performance envelope. Whether it's the system you are specifying or something similar, it would be my direction because of the price point you're trying to hit. Couple of things to keep in mind:

• The older C2xxx series of Avoton processors are great re: low thermals and good file server performance (unlikely to transcode much of anything, however). One potential downside is the AVR54 bug, which has disabled many boards using that CPU (such as the excellent C2750D4I that iXsystems uses in the Mini series). Extended warranties have only protected so many folk. Additionally, there have been other issues such as ASRock publishing a board firmware that lead to hardware failures (since fixed). Thus, the X9 approach may be safer if you want to go used. That said, any C2xxx Avoton-using board manufactured after Feb 2018 should be OK. The lower-performing C2550D4I is available new for something like $250. The RAM will set you back some more, however.
• As Chris Moore has shown over and over, there are some great chassis' to be had on ebay for next to nothing. See if there is a system that meets your needs even if it means ripping out the extant motherboard and replacing it with one of your choice.
• Pay close attention to cooling if you want the drives to last a long time. I found that the combination of the Mini XL chassis, fan system, and HGST 3TB 7K4000 series drives made for a great hard drive roaster during scrubs, for example.