What build for a NAS with ultra-low electricity consumption?

[pantss]

Hello everyone, I'm totally new to NAS and I'm looking to build a new NAS with the greenest footprint possible. Hopefully I can be looking at 15watts excluding HDDs and case fans. As to how I derived 15watt - I have a 5 year old atom netbook that draws that little power and it's still alive today, operated 24/7.

I have a bunch of HDDs (80, 120, 300, 500, 1000GB - a few of each) so a prebuilt NAS is not an option as they lack slots and expansion capabilities.

Requisites:
-Ultra low electricity consumption
-Ability to expand (aka having PCI slots which translate to SATA ports/USB ports for ext HDDs)

Questions:
-DDR3 ram prices are expensive now (as compared to mid cycle); would it be better to wait till DDR4 comes and also wait for Intel skylake chips during the tick cycle (shrinking of die/low power chips)?

-Are there already processors and boards that sip little electricity (10-20watts) in the market now?

-Is it possible to configure freeNAS to hibernate HDDs or the system automatically (e.g. WOL) to save electricity?

Thanks

 

[marbus90]

Buy 2 new WD Reds and an Avoton C2550 or C2358 mobo, but keep away from the hungry C2550D4I. The bunch of older HDDs isn't really useable with FreeNAS anyway and would suck lots of power. Looking at your capacities, you could even be fine with the 1TB 2.5" HDDs, uses even less energy.

 

[nick779]

Food for thought, the build in my sig idling uses 34-36W with the drives spinning 24/7. Remove the two WD Blues and im sure it would probably drop another 10W since theyre 7200rpm drives.

 

[pantss]

Food for thought, the build in my sig idling uses 34-36W with the drives spinning 24/7. Remove the two WD Blues and im sure it would probably drop another 10W since theyre 7200rpm drives.

do the drives always spin or is it configurable? say, putting them to sleep?

 

[nick779]

do the drives always spin or is it configurable? say, putting them to sleep?

With 9.3 the .system dataset is constantly writing, so the only way to actually make drives sleep is to buy a seperate drive just for that. Most people but a 32-64gb SLC/MLC ssd and use that. Some people even mirror the .system drives.

IIRC the only way to avoid this is to use 9.2.x.

 

[danb35]

With 9.3 the .system dataset is constantly writing, so the only way to actually make drives sleep is to buy a seperate drive just for that. MostSome people but a 32-64gb SLC/MLC ssd and use that.

Fixed that for you. The FreeNAS users who are at all concerned about their disks spinning 24x7 are a definite minority. For those who are concerned, getting a small SSD, creating a separate pool on that, and using that pool for the .system dataset is the best way to avoid the "problem".

 

[danb35]

@pantss, I won't get into the system hardware itself, as I think others have already covered that. I'm wondering about your existing disks, though. Are you planning to use them? If so, how? FreeNAS does not have the Drobo-like ability to combine mixed-capacity disks while making full use of their capacity. You may be better off getting a few new disks and using them instead--as a bonus, that will reduce your power consumption.

 

[nick779]

Fixed that for you. The FreeNAS users who are at all concerned about their disks spinning 24x7 are a definite minority. For those who are concerned, getting a small SSD, creating a separate pool on that, and using that pool for the .system dataset is the best way to avoid the "problem".

I should have said "most people who want spindown".

 

[danb35]

Fair enough--I probably jumped a little too hard on that one. An SSD for the .system dataset would be a better option than a USB stick, since the latter don't seem to last very well. Another option would be a SATA DOM, but the SSD is probably cheaper.

 

[sremick]

Is the purpose for low-power to save money, or is it an actual need given the power environment it'll be in (solar panels, RV, etc)?

If it's the former, realize that you're probably going to have to spent more upfront to get a specialized hardware config that will draw little power. It might take a very long time before you get enough electricity bills to get payback for that initial higher investment.

You can't compare to your Atom netbook. So much about what FreeNAS is and what it does just doesn't make it the same at all. You might as well be comparing your netbook to your watch.

Worth mentioning that my FreeNAS server draws less than an incandescent light bulb.

 

[b88]

Buy 2 new WD Reds and an Avoton C2550 or C2358 mobo, but keep away from the hungry C2550D4I. The bunch of older HDDs isn't really useable with FreeNAS anyway and would suck lots of power. Looking at your capacities, you could even be fine with the 1TB 2.5" HDDs, uses even less energy.

I am also interested in a low power setup and have been looking for a mobo. The C2358 caught my eye due to the 7W TDP. I raised this question in another thread here on the forum and it was considered way underpowerd. Is this true? I am looking for something to serve about 4-5 clients at a time with smb, afp and nfs (maybe some owncloud as well but not necessarily) with Gbit/s speeds using 4 sata drives.

Is this an unreasonable setup?

- super micro C2358
- 16 GB ECC RAM
- 4x4 TB HDD SATA
- 2x Gbit/s Ethernet aggregation for better performance

Alternatively the C2550 with 14W will do but i prefer the lower consumption. When i checked the cpu benchmark for the c2358 it is close to a AMD Athlon X2 64 which i remember as quite ok for a desktop a few years back.

 

[anodos]

I am also interested in a low power setup and have been looking for a mobo. The C2358 caught my eye due to the 7W TDP.

TDP isn't a metric for power consumption. You're better off getting something with a better processor. Especially since you're considering samba and owncloud.

I raised this question in another thread here on the forum and it was considered way underpowerd. Is this true?

Probably. Haven't tested it myself. I don't consider it a great choice for a freenas server (that CPU is more likely intended for network appliances).

I am looking for something to serve about 4-5 clients at a time with smb, afp and nfs (maybe some owncloud as well but not necessarily)

If you do all of this on the same dataset, you will probably run into issues with file locking and permissions. It's better to just select one protocol and stick with it.

Is this an unreasonable setup?

- super micro C2358
- 16 GB ECC RAM
- 4x4 TB HDD SATA
- 2x Gbit/s Ethernet aggregation for better performance

Link aggregation might not work as well as you hope. You also need to have a switch that supports it.

Alternatively the C2550 with 14W will do but i prefer the lower consumption. When i checked the cpu benchmark for the c2358 it is close to a AMD Athlon X2 64 which i remember as quite ok for a desktop a few years back.

You'll want good single-threaded performance for samba. A Pentium G4400 is a good choice when coupled with a server motherboard and ECC memory (you might even be able to find entry-level OEM servers that meet your needs at a reduced cost - T20, TS140, etc). Don't know what prices are like where you live, but the amount you save on the lower cost of the G4400 solution might offset a few years worth of the increased power consumption (and you'll probably get better performance to go with it). Of course, opinions on this will vary. At a minimum, I'd look into the C2750 because it theoretically supports up to 64GB RAM and has a slightly higher clock speed.

 

[b88]

TDP isn't a metric for power consumption.

True, i am using it as an indication since many cpus are not tested for idle, stress ... etc.

If you do all of this on the same dataset, you will probably run into issues with file locking and permissions.

This is already considered. One client is a sonos system that doesnt support afp, therefore i need to have both services running, but shared using separate protocols. This works fine.

I currently have an i3-3220T setup running smoothly as a test server. It seems to me that this solution is quite overpowerd since the cpu is only significantly being used when transcoding in plex.

Link aggregation might not work as well as you hope.

Also considered, my router supports this and i am not sure wheter it will add significant speed, but i am curious :p

At a minimum, I'd look into the C2750 because it theoretically supports up to 64GB RAM and has a slightly higher clock speed.

The C2750 is a bit out of the price range i was considering and seems to be just as powerful as the system i already use (i3-3220T), which doesnt really need that much cpu. How do suppliers like synology acheive good performance while using much less powerful setups? The DS216+II for example only has a N30xx something dual core processor (and no ECC for some reason?). They promise good performance on their homepage.

 

[anodos]

I currently have an i3-3220T setup running smoothly as a test server. It seems to me that this solution is quite overpowerd since the cpu is only significantly being used when transcoding in plex.

Plex transcoding? If you're doing that, then you'll probably want to steer clear of the lower-end atom processors.

The C2750 is a bit out of the price range i was considering and seems to be just as powerful as the system i already use (i3-3220T), which doesnt really need that much cpu. How do suppliers like synology acheive good performance while using much less powerful setups? The DS216+II for example only has a N30xx something dual core processor (and no ECC for some reason?). They promise good performance on their homepage.

No plex. No owncloud. I've noticed some samba operations can be bottlenecked by the CPU (usually doing things with lots of small files). Your choice of a 2358 will significantly limit the amount of things you can do with your FreeNAS server by limiting you to only 16GB RAM. You should at least look at the 2558, which supports up to 64GB RAM.

If you already have an i3-3220T, then I'm somewhat confused by trying to downgrade to the 2358. Why not use what you have?

 

[b88]

If you already have an i3-3220T, then I'm somewhat confused by trying to downgrade to the 2358. Why not use what you have?

It doesnt support ECC unfortunatly. Otherwise it wouldnt be too bad. Since ECC is a requirement i might as well look for something a bit less power consuming. The i3+mobo idles at 20 watt, but the average with drives is too high for something running 24/7 thats mostely idle. Since the 16GB ram and the i3 cpu are barely being punished when used, i was looking for something less powerful. Are there other choices for a low power mobo? Plex is a plus but really not required. Maybe omv is a better choice for a low power setup (as soon as btrfs is stable enough)?

 

[anodos]

It doesnt support ECC unfortunatly. Otherwise it wouldnt be too bad. Since ECC is a requirement i might as well look for something a bit less power consuming.

I had forgotten that there were some i3 processors that don't support ECC.

The i3+mobo idles at 20 watt, but the average with drives is too high for something running 24/7 thats mostely idle.

Well, I've seen reports that the C2550 idles at about 15W. I'm not sure if the C2358 will be much lower than that. There are some reports that a G4400 system idles at around 20-30W. With a power usage difference of 5W-10W, how long will it take for your investment in a less powerful system pay off?

Since the 16GB ram and the i3 cpu are barely being punished when used, i was looking for something less powerful. Are there other choices for a low power mobo?

C2550

Plex is a plus but really not required. Maybe omv is a better choice for a low power setup (as soon as btrfs is stable enough)?

I wouldn't hold my breath for btrfs. I don't see the situation with OMV being much different.

 

[b88]

With a power usage difference of 5W-10W, howlong will it take for your investment in aless powerful system pay off?

Its not relly about the money, rather about finding the perfect combination to compete with something like the synology 4 drive models(ds416play i.e.). While not used i want it to use as little power as possible, but still being able to serve (at least afp) shares at Gbit speeds. I was hoping th c2358 would idle below 15w, it seems a bit much for something with tdp of 7w. Only found threads about pfsense on the c2358. I guess this is what it is designed for. So far c2550 seems like the best bet. On some omv forums i read that hardware requirements are the same as for debian, which are really low. Realistically, of course, its a lot more with plugins and btrfs. Read about someone installing it on a raspberry pi, which is interesting, but not relevant for me :p
Those are good answers, its not been easy to find info on this subject.