T310 dilemma & thoughts

[Chris Moore]

Chris, do you have something not at work? :D :D :D

I am only responsible for the equipment in five racks of the datacenter where I work (the department I work for) and the workstations that utilize the data in those systems and my dev lab with the additional servers and workstations in there. Then I have three servers and some workstations at home because I just don't get enough at work.

PS. Those five racks that I have to monitor and maintain are a tiny fraction of the whole datacenter. Each row of racks in the primary datacenter is thirty racks long and it is about twenty isles back to where the two tape libraries are and they take up the rest of back of the space. I switched departments about a year ago, so I don't have to deal with any of the other things any more, but I was in my old department when we disassembled the old tape libraries to move them out. Just to give you a sense of scale about it, these are the robotic arm tape libraries that are taller and deeper than a full server rack and the racks that make up the tape library are all bolted together with a passage down the middle for the arms to traverse the length of the assembly. The software that runs the SAN automatically moves data from hot storage in the SSD portion of the SAN, to warm storage in the HDD portion of the SAN and into cold storage on the tapes based on the frequency with which the data is requested. I worked with the team that SUN/Oracle sent in when they were installing it, and it runs ZFS too.

I found a video of one that is very similar to ours: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZwl7zSfxCI

 

[NoServguy]

That seems a much better option. IceBoosteR mentioned the back up. SO with the T310 what might be my option for back up of the data? I don't mind a daily manual backup but I think I better learn a little more about FN to find out how to do this. Suggestions are always appreciated but I don't want to tie up peoples time on my little project.;)

 

[NoServguy]

Question, is there a way I can plug in a 1 or 1 tb usb drive to backup daily?

 

[Chris Moore]

Question, is there a way I can plug in a 1 or 1 tb usb drive to backup daily?

Edit: Sorry, I didn't answer the question initially, you can plug in a USB hard drive, but the other people that have tried have reported that it usually causes the system to crash during data transfer. That is less than desirable, so the best bet is to transfer data both in and out of the server by means of the network.

The thing that I do, at home, I have two identical servers running FreeNAS and the primary server makes an hourly replication to the backup server. This way, if the primary is down for some reason, the same data (within an hour) can be accessed on the backup server with no down time to the users. It is a bit of overkill for home, but I just have a compulsion about data redundancy. I have a primary and a backup server and one of the servers has a second pool of disks, in an external enclosure, that is a third backup of the data.

There was a link in one of the previous posts, the Dell T310 server can be had very economically on eBay, you might just want to get a second one and schedule a backup to the second server. It is really not hard to do.

 

[NoServguy]

Edit: Sorry, I didn't answer the question initially, you can plug in a USB hard drive, but the other people that have tried have reported that it usually causes the system to crash during data transfer. That is less than desirable, so the best bet is to transfer data both in and out of the server by means of the network.

The thing that I do, at home, I have two identical servers running FreeNAS and the primary server makes an hourly replication to the backup server. This way, if the primary is down for some reason, the same data (within an hour) can be accessed on the backup server with no down time to the users. It is a bit of overkill for home, but I just have a compulsion about data redundancy. I have a primary and a backup server and one of the servers has a second pool of disks, in an external enclosure, that is a third backup of the data.

There was a link in one of the previous posts, the Dell T310 server can be had very economically on eBay, you might just want to get a second one and schedule a backup to the second server. It is really not hard to do.

Based on what I am reading that would be great if I had more time to justify additional server. On that note, since a T310 has four bays would it be possible to make two drives for storage and mirror to two others as back up? Could a second controller be added to make back up? I am kinda shooting in the dark here. If two were primary and two as image then if one failed use the second image? I may be lost. Another consideration is have back up drive on workstation and send data to it through network? Are you beginning to tell how little I know about networks?

 

[Chris Moore]

Are you beginning to tell how little I know about networks?

I guess that answer depends on what you are guarding against with the backup. If you are guarding against a disk failure (in your specific scenario) the best bet is to use a single controller but use four hard drives (all the same size) and configure them as a RAID-z2. This way, two drives are data and two drives are parity and if any one drive fails, you still have a parity drive and it is simple to replace the failed drive.

Speaking of the controller situation, you said the server has an H700 controller in it, the H310 controller would just plug right in where the H700 was. The same cable can connect between the H310 and the hot-swap backplane as what should already be installed for the H700.
The only trouble, and it isn't much, is that you need to flash the firmware to change it from the standard Dell firmware to the IT mode firmware but you don't want to include the 'bios' because you are not trying to boot from this card or any of the disks connected to it.
Here is a link to one in Texas from a reputable seller:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Dell-P...aid-Controller-Card-3P0R3-03P0R3/192349534899

Now, for backing up the data, for the possibility of the server going down, you would be best off to get a second server, but if you don't do that you can backup the data to another system of your choosing, but that might leave the data exposed to theaft, which I though was the point of using encryption, so I am not sure how you want to handle that. You have some options, but if you will let me know what your concern is, I might better be able to suggest something.

 

[Chris Moore]

PS. This is the best price I could find for compatible memory:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/32GB-4X8GB...ory-For-DELL-PowerEdge-T310-R310/181582016005

You probably also want to look at this article: Detailed newcomers' guide to crossflashing LSI 9211 HBA and variants
https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...o-crossflashing-lsi-9211-hba-and-variants.54/

That is really all you should need to change. Replace the H700 with an H310 that is cross-flashed, install more memory, and install larger hard drives. That H310 SAS controller has been used by many people on the forum with drives up to 8TB with no trouble. There have been some issues with certain 10TB drives. I have personally used 2TB, 4TB and 6TB drives on one of those with nothing but success.
I think we have it all nailed except for the backup situation. You are very unlikely to have a fault with this system, I had two of these and am still using one, and they are solid, reliable systems. I am still an advocate of the 'one is none, two is one' backup philosophy. If I were in your spot, I would strongly suggest to the boss that the price of a second server like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Power...0-32GB-RAM-4x-500GB-HDD-H200-FPS/182975524200
is a good investment on redundancy to keep the important data safe and available.
Here is a link to the Dell PDF on these systems:
http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pedge/en/poweredge-t310-technical-guidebook-en.pdf

 

[Mirfster]

Regarding backup, you may also want to consider something like CrashPlan. Simply have another machine or VM mapped to the share and perform backups to the cloud. If I recall, CrashPlan is $10.00/month for unlimited storage. Of course I don't know your company's upload speed, but once the initial backup is "seeded" I would not think the rest would be too bad.

 

[NoServguy]

PS. This is the best price I could find for compatible memory:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/32GB-4X8GB...ory-For-DELL-PowerEdge-T310-R310/181582016005

You probably also want to look at this article: Detailed newcomers' guide to crossflashing LSI 9211 HBA and variants
https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...o-crossflashing-lsi-9211-hba-and-variants.54/

That is really all you should need to change. Replace the H700 with an H310 that is cross-flashed, install more memory, and install larger hard drives. That H310 SAS controller has been used by many people on the forum with drives up to 8TB with no trouble. There have been some issues with certain 10TB drives. I have personally used 2TB, 4TB and 6TB drives on one of those with nothing but success.
I think we have it all nailed except for the backup situation. You are very unlikely to have a fault with this system, I had two of these and am still using one, and they are solid, reliable systems. I am still an advocate of the 'one is none, two is one' backup philosophy. If I were in your spot, I would strongly suggest to the boss that the price of a second server like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Power...0-32GB-RAM-4x-500GB-HDD-H200-FPS/182975524200
is a good investment on redundancy to keep the important data safe and available.
Here is a link to the Dell PDF on these systems:
http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pedge/en/poweredge-t310-technical-guidebook-en.pdf

If you and others have time to read this with any input, I think with all the help you have given, I can finally piece together all the issues. But here is what I was shooting for. My basic concept was to have a server to store the scan images on and allow one, but maybe two, work stations to access the images as needed. The server drives with the images, needed to be encrypted in case of physical theft & some form of redundancy to protect against drive failure, thus your position on RAID-z2 sounds like a good choice for this. I was going to load the installer on a flash & keep "keys" to manage admin on two other flash drives (one in safe). Another member, Mirfster, pointed me to a T310 with 32 gig and H200 already loaded and I am considering this as the main, keeping the current T310 with it's components as backup hardware. If I pick up another H200 and the main failed, could I migrate Memory & drives to the backup and have it work? The only things now I am not sure about is if Motherboard fails would components and encrypted drives work on a hardware migration and if two h200s or two H310s would be a better route. I am not concerned about workstation access as the office is secure, the workstations are tied to a "hyperserver?" and you have to have credentials to access those. I have flashed firmware before on hardware, I just need to read up a bit more. The storage will be accessible but has no need to be accessed outside the office.
So problem
1. Would migrating encrypted drives and memory from one system to another due to hardware failure work?
2. the best choice of the two controllers?
I am trying to resolve hardware but usages comes into play and I feel like I am overextending myself with those questions in this group. Thanks again for all the help so far. I hope I can return the favor for others once I am up and running & become more familiar with this software.

 

[Chris Moore]

I will take them out of order...

2. the best choice of the two controllers?

The H200 and H310 controllers from Dell are basically the same chip in a different form factor card. The H200 card is shaped more like the H700 you are replacing, with the connectors on the top of the card, so that might be a better solution in this instance. No real difference functionally.

1. Would migrating encrypted drives and memory from one system to another due to hardware failure work?

If you boot the server from a USB flash drive, be sure to have a backup of the config file because the USB flash drives have a tendency to fail without notice. You can re-install to a fresh USB drive and load the config file and be back in opperation very quickly. No problem.
When it comes to encrypting your pool, you need to remember the passphrase and you need to have the encryption key (a file) and the recovery key (also a file) because the system will ask for one or the other of those depending on how you are accessing the pool. You will not be able to access the pool without them.
FreeNAS is pretty agnostic when it comes to hardware. You could take the set of drives from the Dell T310 and put them in a whole other kind of computer, as long as the hardware is supported by FreeNAS and import your pool there with the hardest problem being resetting your IP address because it will recognize that it is a different NIC due to the MAC address change.
Did I cover all the questions?

 

[NoServguy]

Yes, your reply is of great help, I think I have about wrapped up my issues, now I just need to make sure of my hardware direction after the answers I received! Thank you very much!

 

[NoServguy]

Hi Chris, I wanted to thank you again for the info. I've been reading as much as my job allows and had a new twist added to the mix. Thought I would pass by you. The company that supplies our servers is getting ready to replace our current server in about two months and I will have my hands on a T320. It looks like a better option as the system has 16 Gig of memory. I am thinking of replacing the current PERC H710 with the h310 or H200 and adding the (4) 3tb WD Reds to the system using your suggested configuration as a RAID-z2. I also have a 32gig SSD I thought about loading the OS to from sata port on the mainboard. Would either one of the H200 or 310 work with this server the same? The T320 looks a little more robust. Thoughts?

 

[Chris Moore]

Hi Chris, I wanted to thank you again for the info. I've been reading as much as my job allows and had a new twist added to the mix. Thought I would pass by you. The company that supplies our servers is getting ready to replace our current server in about two months and I will have my hands on a T320. It looks like a better option as the system has 16 Gig of memory. I am thinking of replacing the current PERC H710 with the h310 or H200 and adding the (4) 3tb WD Reds to the system using your suggested configuration as a RAID-z2. I also have a 32gig SSD I thought about loading the OS to from sata port on the mainboard. Would either one of the H200 or 310 work with this server the same? The T320 looks a little more robust. Thoughts?

I will look up the model when I get to my house. On the road now.
I have one of the Dell Power Edge T310 servers in my development space, so I know that model but I am not sure what the difference between the two is.
My guess is that it will be a good upgrade.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

 

[Chris Moore]

The company that supplies our servers is getting ready to replace our current server in about two months and I will have my hands on a T320.

Well, after looking at the specs from Dell: http://www.dell.com/vg/business/p/poweredge-t320/pd
I would say it could be a much better server for you. You will need to get your hands on it to verify what hardware it comes with, but one of the options for it was a H310 controller, and for the hard drives, it says "Capacity for up to eight 3.5-inch or sixteen 2.5-inch hard drives".
Once you get a look at what is actually there, you will know more, but going by the data I could find, it looks good.