Some Hardware advice needed

[madtulip]

Hey guys.

I just installed freenas on my readys ultra pro 6. Copiing the data back on it i realized a drop from about 103MB/s write to nas which i had before on a raid with 1 redundant disk to like 13MB/s using a gbit lan. I would need some advice on which hardware components to add/replace here. And which things i might have to configure to reduce some bottlenecks. maybe anything pops to your eye.

specs:
RAM: 1GB
CPU: Pentium(R) Dual-Core CPU E5300 @ 2.60GHz
HHDs: 4*2TB

I did set it up as RaidZ1 with the wizzard so far. its l4z compressed (is that a large performance hit?)

I was thinking about getting 8GB RAM for it as the installation already said 4GB would be recommended size.

Next i was thinking about adding SSDs for ZIL and L2ARC. Im not sure if i need two of them and i dont know which ones to get (model?). I was thinking about getting 2 and creating 2 mirrored partitions which each reside on 50% of the space of each SSD. One for write and one for read cache. Is mirrored a requirement here for some security reason? Else i would only get one. I didnt want to spend enourmous ammounts of cash here. Its for a home enviroment with about 30 network attached devices where i want to do up to like 2 to 4 HD streams in parallel. I usualy work with some GB worth of data which i analyse and crunch on for work which are stored on the nas as well. Apart from that i have main/home partitions for 6 people on the box for everyday normal data.

Would two of the Intel320 SSDs
http://www.amazon.de/Intel-SSDSA2CT040G310-interne-40GB-silber/dp/B004U8TBJY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427617272&sr=8-1&keywords=Intel 320
recommended in this thread
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/some-insights-into-slog-zil-with-zfs-on-freenas.13633/
cut it for me?

I think i would need/aim for read or write performance of normal files on the nas of ~50MB/s. anything between 50 to 100 MB/s would be better ofc.

Just checked workload of the CPU beeing 15-25% for the smbd process so that seems to be fine. RAM on the other hand seems to be a problem.

Mem: 152M Active, 67M Inact, 657M Wired, 8K Cache, 528K Buf, 90M Free
ARC: 341M Total, 1391K MFU, 272M MRU, 6125K Anon, 2618K Header, 59M Other
Swap: 8192M Total, 209M Used, 7983M Free, 2% Inuse

PID USERNAME THR PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE C TIME WCPU COMMAND
8561 root 1 52 0 335M 18432K piperd 0 28:48 12.50% smbd

Thanks for any advice!

 

[zambanini]

8gb ecc ram is the absolut minimum memory.

you must really hate your data. you will kill it.

advice:
read the manual, READ THE MANUAL. RTFM!
read the sticky posts.


*removed some words here, something like i****, punch, shame yourself* . even fn needs to use swap on your setup.

forget l2arc if you do not have at least 64gb of ram.

 

[gpsguy]

Your ReadyNAS is unsuitable for FreeNAS. And, to elaborate on what zambanini said, running with 1/8th of the minimum amount of RAM is a recipe for data loss.

For the needs you outlined, you need a new system. Start by reading this sticky: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/hardware-recommendations-read-this-first.23069/

Please read the manual for minimum specs and recommendations. If you'd like a PDF version of it, see the link in my signature.

 

[madtulip]

gpsguy: thanks for the links

 

[DrKK]

This is a fact: If you run FreeNAS with 1GB of memory, you will kill your data. Maybe today. Maybe tomorrow. But you will kill it.

 

[jgreco]

readys ultra pro 6.

Is it an Ultra 6? An Ultra 6 Plus? A Pro 6? The guessing isn't helpful. What's the maximum amount of RAM you can put in the thing?

 

[madtulip]

Its an Ultra 6 Plus.
Ive seen 2 of theese (only 2 banks) recommended multiple times for the box.:
Patriot 4GB 200-Pin DDR2 SO-DIMM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Laptop Memory Model PSD24G6672S

 

[madtulip]

Well so far with 1gb its just an installation i did in order to check out what freenas can do. checking out the OSs capabilities, look and feel. the readynas firmware came to its limits for me when i started to add all kinds of services and i wanted a well developed nas dedicated os. ofc i dont have any data on it yet.

im asking here to see if and what kind of direction i should further proceed with my nas. upgrade the old or if you think that is realy a bad hardware i would also consider to buy a new one like in the link in the 2nd post.
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/hardware-recommendations-read-this-first.23069/

im currently looking at that list and checking avaibility and prices and which components i would need to evaluate prices to see if thats an option that makes sense for my wallet.

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

If you're looking for a ready-made solution and your expectations are reasonable, there are some entry-level servers that members are using successfully:

• Dell PowerEdge T20
• Dell PowerEdge T110 II
• Lenovo ThinkServer TS140
• Lenovo ThingServer TS440

With one of these you just buy a bunch of RAM and 4 hard drives and you're all set.

And the one in my signature is working well for me...

 

[madtulip]

Current build is basically the "mini" box they sell on this site for 300 bucks less. Not sure if the RAM is the right one. Also not sure about the PSU, 450W is probably to much. i thought 6 hd slots are nice to expand later. also the option to put 2*8 or 2*16 dimms once the 16gb sticks become more common is a good option for the future.

On the other hand i have the impression the system is full blown overkill for a fileserver, even for my 2 connected households. I would need to install some VMs or some parallel computing to at least have the impression i use the stuff.

what about ssds for read write cache? thats high end company application only?

----- MB -----
with CPU (400€)
http://www.amazon.de/ASRock-C2750D4I-Mainboard-Mini-ITX/dp/B00GG94Z4Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427653781&sr=8-1&keywords=asrock c2750d4i

----- Case -----
node 304 (80€)
https://www.alternate.de/Fractal-Design/NODE-304-Gehäuse/html/product/1040854?event=search

----- RAM -----
2*8GB dimms each 2*80€
https://www.alternate.de/Crucial/DI...itsspeicher/html/product/1099717?event=search
not sure if this is the same as the one mentioned here.:
http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C2750D4I#Memory
Name differs in the ending "CT102472BD160B.18FED" vs. "CT102472BD160B".

----- HDDs -----
4* 4T WD Red 180€
https://www.alternate.de/Western-Digital/WD40EFRX-4-TB-Festplatte/html/product/1098412?event=search

----- PSU -----
450watt probably to much 60€
https://www.alternate.de/Fractal-Design/Integra-M-450W-Netzteil/html/product/1149639?
not sure which PSU to pick here.

 

[madtulip]

If you're looking for a ready-made solution and your expectations are reasonable, there are some entry-level servers that members are using successfully:

• Dell PowerEdge T20
• Dell PowerEdge T110 II
• Lenovo ThinkServer TS140
• Lenovo ThingServer TS440

With one of these you just buy a bunch of RAM and 4 hard drives and you're all set.

And the one in my signature is working well for me...

ill take a look into what they charge for that. thank you!

 

[JJT211]

Current build is basically the "mini" box they sell on this site for 300 bucks less. Not sure if the RAM is the right one. Also not sure about the PSU, 450W is probably to much. i thought 6 hd slots are nice to expand later. also the option to put 2*8 or 2*16 dimms once the 16gb sticks become more common is a good option for the future.

On the other hand i have the impression the system is full blown overkill for a fileserver, even for my 2 connected households. I would need to install some VMs or some parallel computing to at least have the impression i use the stuff.

what about ssds for read write cache? thats high end company application only?

----- MB -----
with CPU (400€)
http://www.amazon.de/ASRock-C2750D4I-Mainboard-Mini-ITX/dp/B00GG94Z4Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427653781&sr=8-1&keywords=asrock c2750d4i

----- Case -----
node 304 (80€)
https://www.alternate.de/Fractal-Design/NODE-304-Gehäuse/html/product/1040854?event=search

----- RAM -----
2*8GB dimms each 2*80€
https://www.alternate.de/Crucial/DI...itsspeicher/html/product/1099717?event=search
not sure if this is the same as the one mentioned here.:
http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C2750D4I#Memory
Name differs in the ending "CT102472BD160B.18FED" vs. "CT102472BD160B".

----- HDDs -----
4* 4T WD Red 180€
https://www.alternate.de/Western-Digital/WD40EFRX-4-TB-Festplatte/html/product/1098412?event=search

----- PSU -----
450watt probably to much 60€
https://www.alternate.de/Fractal-Design/Integra-M-450W-Netzteil/html/product/1149639?
not sure which PSU to pick here.

This is pretty much my exact setup except I have the Supermicro version of the MB. If I could do it again, my only change would be to go with 200W power supply as power efficiency is best at 50%-20%. My system is around 40W which is about 14%. Not really that efficient.

And I might go with the ASRock MB instead due to the full size RAM slots.

 

[madtulip]

Thanks JJT211. Ill Put a 200W to 250W then.

 

[enemy85]

Go with a seasonic G-360...

 

[madtulip]

ok i ordered the stuff with a g-360 psu. thanks for the advice guys. hope this works as intended.

 

[jgreco]

Thanks JJT211. Ill Put a 200W to 250W then.

Way too small.

 

[madtulip]

Way too small.

i did put a 360W seasonic G-360 instead. do you think thats to small as well ? JJT211 measured his similar setup as 40W. Also in the "mini" hardware they sell on this site they included a 250W psu for the same components.

 

[jgreco]

i did put a 360W seasonic G-360 instead. do you think thats to small as well ?

No.

JJT211 measured his similar setup as 40W. Also in the "mini" hardware they sell on this site they included a 250W psu for the same components.

Yes, but you're talking about "up to six drives." The dominant issue is NOT the idle power, which seems to be the mistake everyone makes. It is the peak power. For an Avoton chassis, maybe 40 watts, plus drives. So you take the six drives, times maybe 8 watts idle current, plus six drives times 12 volts times 2 amps start current. That gets you 232 watts. This means that you can reasonably expect the system could draw 232 watts. So then things get a bit complicated, because you need to include a factor to allow for the inefficiency of the power supply, PLUS you also never want to peak a power supply, because that stresses components, and as the power supply ages, its ability to withstand being run out to its full capacity is reduced. You probably never want to run a supply at more than 80% of its rated capacity, no matter what the marketing glossies claim.

So if you need 232 watts, the 80% thing means you actually want a 290 watt supply - or bigger. Your Seasonic is fine. The "200-250w" would have been too small. (As for the Mini? The sizing on that's real close IMO, but probably OK).

Now, the argument that folks like JJT211 typically make is that your supply is then probably operating outside its peak efficiency range. This is true. So Frickin' What?!

Here's the thing. If you were to get a power supply that could offer you 90% efficiency for a 40 watt load, instead of one that offers 85% efficiency because you're down at around 15% rated load, that means that the more efficient supply is drawing 44.4 watts from the wall instead of the less efficient supply's 47 watts. You are indeed saving 2.6 watts. Around here, power is 14c/kWh. So that means you're saving $3.19 per year in power, or about $16 over the five year lifetime of your average device.

But in exchange for that much more efficient power supply, you are exposing your gear to voltage sag. I don't know about you, but around here, a hard drive is still at least a hundred bucks, six of them plus a NAS is at least a thousand bucks, and I am absolutely willing to pay $16 to avoid hard-to-detect damage from an undersized power supply.

You really do want to pick the smallest thing that'll do the job safely and reasonably. It is not, however, a number that should just be guessed at. We can figure the safe range for a supply.

 

[madtulip]

Ok thank you for going through the efford of doing the numbers, saveing me probelms and your time!

 

[JJT211]

No.



Yes, but you're talking about "up to six drives." The dominant issue is NOT the idle power, which seems to be the mistake everyone makes. It is the peak power. For an Avoton chassis, maybe 40 watts, plus drives. So you take the six drives, times maybe 8 watts idle current, plus six drives times 12 volts times 2 amps start current. That gets you 232 watts. This means that you can reasonably expect the system could draw 232 watts. So then things get a bit complicated, because you need to include a factor to allow for the inefficiency of the power supply, PLUS you also never want to peak a power supply, because that stresses components, and as the power supply ages, its ability to withstand being run out to its full capacity is reduced. You probably never want to run a supply at more than 80% of its rated capacity, no matter what the marketing glossies claim.

So if you need 232 watts, the 80% thing means you actually want a 290 watt supply - or bigger. Your Seasonic is fine. The "200-250w" would have been too small. (As for the Mini? The sizing on that's real close IMO, but probably OK).

Now, the argument that folks like JJT211 typically make is that your supply is then probably operating outside its peak efficiency range. This is true. So Frickin' What?!

Here's the thing. If you were to get a power supply that could offer you 90% efficiency for a 40 watt load, instead of one that offers 85% efficiency because you're down at around 15% rated load, that means that the more efficient supply is drawing 44.4 watts from the wall instead of the less efficient supply's 47 watts. You are indeed saving 2.6 watts. Around here, power is 14c/kWh. So that means you're saving $3.19 per year in power, or about $16 over the five year lifetime of your average device.

But in exchange for that much more efficient power supply, you are exposing your gear to voltage sag. I don't know about you, but around here, a hard drive is still at least a hundred bucks, six of them plus a NAS is at least a thousand bucks, and I am absolutely willing to pay $16 to avoid hard-to-detect damage from an undersized power supply.

You really do want to pick the smallest thing that'll do the job safely and reasonably. It is not, however, a number that should just be guessed at. We can figure the safe range for a supply.

I thought Avoton TDW is 20W. Are you adding 5w per RAM stick? Also I've heard 5W per HD. But

I also took the 200W cue from this setup
http://www.servethehome.com/Server-detail/supermicro-a1sam-2750f-review-matx-avoton-2x-pcie-slots/

Anyways, great point about the actual cost. Thanks for the breakdown! Makes alot of sense!

Looks like I hit it perfectly then with my 300W PS.