Single User low power Home Server

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brw02005

Dabbler
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
30
I have tried to do my homework on this one. Here is my plan.

Intel Celeron G1820

WD Red 3 TB X 6 in raidz2

ASRock Q87WS-DL

Crucial 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unregistered DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Server Memory Model CT2KIT51272BD1339

Rosewill CAPSTONE-450-M 450W



$1184 with case and everything


This NAS does not need to be fast. I just need 35 mbps for single stream video playback over samba. I plan to add another 8 gb ram or more down the road if necessary. Videos are written to hard drive as they are encoded so write speed can be extremely slow. Open to suggestions although this is near the limit on my budget. I made sure to get ECC stuff at least. I plan to also run bittorent sync to sync to backup drives and maybe logitech media server. I have done many gaming PC builds and am extremely familiar with Linux. Most people look down on Asrock motherboards but I have had nothing but luck with them.
 

joeschmuck

Old Man
Moderator
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
10,994
Do you have any ambitions of transcoding video on the fly? Using Plex? I don't know if your CPU choice is good enough for that. Maybe someone else could chime in with that answer if you do plan to transcode. Not sure about the Rosewill PS, maybe it's a Seasonic inside, that actually happens quite a bit.

Do you need 3TB drives? You could save a little money here and buy a better CPU. You can see my tagline and I run 2TB drives and I have a lot of videos and even more backup data on my NAS and still have 4TB free. It's a lot of space and if you do not have that much data now, you can expand the pool in 2 to 3 years by replacing one drive at a time to a larger capacity, maybe 4TB will be cheap then. It's just a thought, I have no idea what your true requirements are.
 

brw02005

Dabbler
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
30
I have a core i7 gaming rig and a phenom II quad core media center PC running mint with XBMC. This thing just has to store, serve, and sync files mainly. I might play with the logitech media server to goof around with synchronized multi-zone audio.

I don't really know about the cpu requirements on that but I imagine they are not high. I choose this cpu to keep my electric bill low as it will always be on. This is a Haswell celeron which is a hare slower than previous generation i3 that many consumer grades NASes are based on. It may be cheap but it has plenty of power as long as long as you don't multitask it to death.

I am not a big fan of transcoding high quality video on the fly. I believe there is a reason it takes my quad core i7 8 hours to properly encode a video and then you can forget about lossless audio.

I have built 5 gaming PCs with the higher power version of this PSU with no problems. To be honest I have had more trouble with the more established names like corsair and themaltake. I know under the hood they are all something different like Seasonic but I have had bad Seasonic power supplies as well. I have resorted mostly to shooting from the hip and relying on reviews as just about any brand can make a bad power supply and higher price does not ensure quality. I have never had a bad ASROCK motherboard 8 years running. I probably have 70 gaming PCs I have built with them although I have never used a server motherboard of theirs.

I currently have 4TB of data with plenty more on the way so that is why I opted for 12TB with redundancy. I plan to replace with a higher capacity drive as they fail.

I really thought the low amount of ram was the most controversial thing I did. I saw a guy rig up a 5X2TB raidz with an E350 CPU and 8gb ram and no ECC. He got 185 MB/s throughput. I was thinking the ram would severely handicap mine with a much larger array. Keep giving me advice so when/if I fall on my face with this I will at least know what I did wrong.
 

Yatti420

Wizard
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
1,437
My question is can somebody pull less then 50-100w with atleast a few drives..
 

brw02005

Dabbler
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
30
At idle that is a piece of cake but at load it will be close. Rule of thumb is at full load is 10w/hd and TDP of CPU plus 25 watts for motherboard components. You then add 100 watts to that for in rush current for when you turn it on. A haswell Celeron with a HD 7750 gaming gpu, and one hard drive plus mother board at idle is 27 watts. I don't have exact numbers on a WD 3TB red for idle/ full load but I imagine this is pretty close. That should at least give you ballpark. If I don't hear any objections to my hardware choices I will build this thing then measure and let you know.

Everyone needs a low power 18TB
 

Yatti420

Wizard
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
1,437
When I see Celeron i equate it to a 4 cylinder if that.. If the system does nothing 99.5% of the time I can see trying to save those extra watts using powerd etc.. I would go with a Pentium chip same platform that supports ECC etc.. I would also get 16gb ram minimum and then run plugins.. If you can get more ram 1333 that is cheaper I would do that versus less of faster stuff.. If you can just max out the board ram wise.. Then you don't have to worry about it.. ZFS loves the ram..
 

brw02005

Dabbler
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
30
I will take your advice as a Intel Pentium G3220 is about $20 more and same TDP. A modern haswell Celeron is equivalent to a quad core Athlon II of few generations ago in terms of performance even though yes the Celeron name bothers me in my soul too. I will not beta test something over $20. As for the ram. I will probably build it with 8 GB ram then upgrade otherwise I will have to wait another month for this build so I can get some more cash up. I figure worse case the plugins are unusable until then. As for ram speed this pentium haswell only supports 1333 ECC as well. Your input is appreciated. I know how to build hot rod computers but this is my first cargo van.
 

brw02005

Dabbler
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
30
Ok nevermind. It looks like it is much cheaper to go 2x8 gb then 4x4 gb. Thank you amazon

Crucial 16GB Kit (8GBx2) DDR3 1333 MT/s (PC3-10600) CL9 Unbuffered ECC UDIMM 240-Pin 1.35V/1.5V Server Memory CT2CP102472BD1339

An insane amount of memory for an insane amount of space.

That is not too bad with processor bump that adds just $90 bringing me to $1274. You know if a few years ago someone said they had 18TB in their living room I would ask them who they stole the server from and how loud do they have to turn up the TV to hear anything. I use to run a SQL/file server at work for my last job. It had dual quad core Xeons. I never once saw it break 5% cpu usage. It is true though that no one ever got fired buying too powerful of a server as long as they met their budget.


I will wait until the end of the day then order the parts tomorrow.
 

joeschmuck

Old Man
Moderator
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
10,994
To address the RAM, for what you are doing 8GB RAM is fine which is why I didn't mention it as a concern. In my opinion 6GB RAM is the minimum to make a FreeNAS system run with ZFS formatted drives, doesn't matter how many drives or the capacity. This should also allow for running of a few plugins as well. So 8GB RAM and if the MB steals some for video resources or whatever else, that is good. If you start to factor in things like encryption or deduplication or lots of transactions then more RAM is needed to keep things running smoothly. You can even transcode with 8GB RAM without issue. RAM speed isn't that critical either, 1333 is fine. It's not a gaming system. A lot of folks error on the side of caution and get 16GB RAM because they have no idea what the minimum requirement really is and they have no idea what they will be doing with their system in the future. Also RAM is the easiest thing to upgrade which gets you more bang for the buck, there is no such thing as too much RAM on a ZFS NAS system, in general. All your RAM will eventually be utilized as a cache. The downside is ECC RAM is not nearly as cheap as normal RAM, sucks for us folks building thee devices. My advice if you are looking to save a few bucks right now is purchase a single stick of 8GB ECC RAM now, then see how it works. It lowers power consumption and heat generation as well but if you can afford it, grab the 16GB RAM and be done thinking about the RAM.

Back to the CPU, I have seen others use the Intel Pentium G3220 without complaints. It does not have built in AES so I would not recommend encrypting your hard drives or you will see performance hits.

The 3TB WD Reds pull roughly 5 watts while running each if you wanted to factor that in.

P.S.I'd love to know how this build goes. It's low cost (minus the hard drives) and I think others would benefit from your experience.
 

Yatti420

Wizard
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
1,437
If you get 16gb you certainly won't be worrying.. I just like having as much as I can afford/support for ZFS to use.. It will use the majority which is nice.. I just don't use Celerons.. I find compared to pentium they always lack intentionally somewhere.. If you need the insane power later on get a xeon..
 

brw02005

Dabbler
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
30
Went with the pentium and 16 gb ram. Parts will be here by Friday. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Thank you for your input.
 

brw02005

Dabbler
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
30
System is working great. I got 92 MB/s from windows 7 using SSD (my linux boxes are all slower hard drives). Next step is off site backup with crash plan. I'll still keep my old greyhole array going as a spinning backup but probably going to drop the file mirroring given I will have two other copies (freenas and crash plan). I had a bad WD Red which was a breeze to replace although I had to shut down and it took me a bit to find the one with the right serial number. I have a few questions left.

Is it dangerous to run without a UPS (I saw more emphasis on using ECC ram and enough of it and setting up raidz2)?
I will make this more of a priority if necessary although I do realize it is a decent idea just for hardware longevity.

Can't find a way to change the time the reports email (3 AM really)? I am on call for a power plant with errors received through email so I would like to be awake when this thing bothers me. I saw a script to change this to only bother me if something breaks which I am considering.

Know anyway to locally benchmark this thing? Every test I ran I got the speed of the ram instead of the hard drive. Not complaining about my 2.2 GB/s write speed but doesn't seem sustainable. I would love to see this thing with 10 gig ethernet some day. Probably need to upgrade CPU for CIFS.

This thing never sees above 25% load except using plugins so I think a Celeron would work have worked fine but for $20 I'll take the future proof. I am still trying to get the UPNP mediarender on Logitech Media Server to play beyond the first song but it is working great for local content (I'll make a new thread for that). I'll report back with power usage when I order up a meter next month.

Thank you all for your help. This build went incredibly smooth. This is an excellent product. You should fix the bug of the reporting graphs not working out of the box but everything else was top notch.
 

joeschmuck

Old Man
Moderator
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
10,994
Very dangerous not using an UPS to ensure a controlled shutdown during a power outage. Look in the Guides section of the forum, I believe there are benchmarking topics there. I know I have one that deals with Intel vs. Realtek NICs, it has a lot of benchmarking both internal and external. As for the CPU, it will pull it's own when you decide to use Plex for transcoding or just do any number of other things in the jails.
 

brw02005

Dabbler
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
30
OK, should have a UPS in a week or so. My NAS idles at 50 watts (48 watts with PowerD on). Max inrush is 116 watts at startup. Haswell is very efficient. I could probably lower it more by turning more stuff off on the motherboard but I am fairly happy. This has been a very successful build. Thank you all for your help.
 

Scareh

Contributor
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Messages
182
Out of curiosity, could you tell me where you bought your parts? And which case you are using?
I'm highly interested in this build, and might duplicate it.

Are you running any plugins? (I'm running a TS3 server, Pydio server, some bittorrent and some plex (locally only))
Kinda worried about the plex transcoding remarks inhere so want to make sure its capable enough to do that.
Did you run any of the performance tests joeschmuck talked about by any chance?
 

brw02005

Dabbler
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
30
I run two instances of logitech media center, bittorrent sync, and transmission.

Here is my test. Seems too fast to me.

iozone -a
Iozone: Performance Test of File I/O
Version $Revision: 3.420 $
Compiled for 64 bit mode.
Build: freebsd

Contributors:William Norcott, Don Capps, Isom Crawford, Kirby Collins
Al Slater, Scott Rhine, Mike Wisner, Ken Goss
Steve Landherr, Brad Smith, Mark Kelly, Dr. Alain CYR,
Randy Dunlap, Mark Montague, Dan Million, Gavin Brebner,
Jean-Marc Zucconi, Jeff Blomberg, Benny Halevy, Dave Boone,
Erik Habbinga, Kris Strecker, Walter Wong, Joshua Root,
Fabrice Bacchella, Zhenghua Xue, Qin Li, Darren Sawyer,
Vangel Bojaxhi, Ben England, Vikentsi Lapa.

Run began: Thu Apr 3 07:16:13 2014

Auto Mode
Command line used: iozone -a
Output is in Kbytes/sec
Time Resolution = 0.000001 seconds.
Processor cache size set to 1024 Kbytes.
Processor cache line size set to 32 bytes.
File stride size set to 17 * record size.
random random bkwd record stride
KB reclen write rewrite read reread read write read rewrite read fwrite frewrite fread freread
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65536 4096 6002119 5312594 6593091 6590404 6402514 5332898 4951255 6004217 7286590 5543032 4438611 2809813 3256623
65536 8192 5362549 4637426 6201866 6241578 6215468 5050228 5362968 5171757 6320368 5072034 4867438 2606965 3081148
65536 16384 5192174 4871406 6154790 6198369 6164037 4975003 4661886 5079532 6261768 4852401 4330640 2648460 2970021
131072 64 4078948 5673855 7401446 7454032 7189940 6252567 5316900 7791676 6475882 6047465 5287496 5534651 5714431
131072 128 8663055 7989846 6178294 7341647 7524633 7853788 6700351 11185537 6813960 8207416 6648652 5035417 5539335
131072 256 8150712 8261686 8349646 8398243 8361329 8292467 6661865 10545497 7664045 7779217 6497388 4695404 5421558
131072 512 7770970 7958616 6997214 8034334 8072914 7842472 8005320 10651126 6855254 8018514 7249482 5639920 5638705
131072 1024 5320090 8135634 6692520 7801960 7795433 7835989 5804266 9909472 8128537 7964496 6318247 4390010 5315614
131072 2048 6459598 7160068 5525139 7144900 7243559 7314297 5914545 7933235 6829535 6346108 6865270 4400024 4007965
131072 4096 4991481 5901529 5270918 5980624 6102376 5545649 4969193 5927107 6282793 5454099 4740589 3114308 3369968
131072 8192 5391464 4748123 5428517 5949428 5765733 5064595 5199186 5193440 6154501 4925650 4299542 2994560 3155240
131072 16384 4956023 4677785 6118540 6169835 5999552 4952629 5241819 5125411 6292718 4278761 4166969 2492852 3142524
262144 64 3663429 5805548 5947684 6798153 6615640 5783013 6132012 7608297 6445013 6009580 5853142 5464421 5702009
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262144 512 7591330 7688849 6734405 8034029 7888317 7777831 7361742 10723406 8061715 6054285 6935371 4927147 5477761
262144 1024 7066823 7629097 6365647 8230012 8061479 7990009 7779922 10143301 8119941 5625659 6709952 4675633 5139254
262144 2048 6357770 6489520 5168850 7154794 7125628 7126413 6488868 7911361 6710607 7172810 6540359 3875916 4213514
262144 4096 4242699 5178783 5497645 6124123 6102607 4388010 5212640 5919092 6088313 5698551 4899963 3165649 2899121
262144 8192 4307320 4805561 5040537 5818574 5833732 4952112 5761528 5193116 5926302 5124308 4247173 3050209 3015956
262144 16384 4590789 4667871 5310860 5859536 5765213 4851918 5287720 5032624 6135776 4246828 4424579 2781751 3007583
524288 64 3847447 5986867 6337428 7053604 6579670 5410053 5955300 7825905 6556306 5744547 5344533 5043795 5399744
524288 128 6829247 7819477 6450549 7610951 7379029 7978581 6684696 11269194 7312751 7126109 6908176 4852183 5448119
524288 256 6905963 4819356 6005736 7877291 7780137 7504717 6606038 10758388 7584622 7281056 7084669 4587110 5433875
524288 512 7121539 7312240 7540125 8081144 8024964 8003293 7688064 10700384 8021890 7116031 6972375 5733927 4950036
524288 1024 7406243 7182599 7104284 8168527 7767907 8016509 7211572 8841580 8117178 7206703 6884020 4740226 5229857
524288 2048 6777072 6446275 6271691 7087089 7114098 5945382 5811743 7859666 7134640 6178041 6543956 4366695 4080571
524288 4096 6130300 5193494 6452063 5288836 6103332 5028271 5221152 6061692 6313846 5010536 4984674 2951507 3319246
524288 8192 4655162 4628209 5674550 5876617 5885314 4107875 5393585 5363395 5990569 4509616 4415055 2742410 3146816
524288 16384 4346034 4707500 5367519 5844971 5802221 4043498 5259074 4960387 5923617 4361031 4378772 2739885 3142288

iozone test complete.

Got 95 mpbs on CIFS and 115 mbps over NFS. NFS may have been hard drive limited slightly but CIFS was done with a solid state drive and i7 on windows. I'm pretty sure I'm fine until 10 gigbit is a thing. I cannot run my video files on plex. With lossless audio and the way I encode them even my i7 desktop could not hold 24 fps. I run a really high bitrate high profile mkv also.
 

Scareh

Contributor
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Messages
182
I hope someone passes by to explain what you just posted, seems like a lot of gibberisch to me :/
thanks for posting it allready anyways ^^

I would stream to a raspberry (100mbit port only) so i assume if i use only downloaded (aka torrent) movies/series through plex i should be fine?
I highly doubt they are the quality you are doing :p

Any input on the case?
 

brw02005

Dabbler
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
30
It is read/write throughput data for various files sizes and chunk sizes. It makes no sense to me either because the throughput number are too big like it never touches the hard drive and stays in ram which might be what is happening.

With a Raspberry Pi I would just mount a NFS share and play the files with XBMC. CIFS will work also but it will require more processor overhead which is a premium on the Pi. I am not a fan of transcoding with plex and the Pi can handle mkv and mp4 with h.264 encoding (very common). It cannot handle avi files with divx encoding (older SD format). Most online stuff does not do lossless audio so you are fine there but avoid truehd if you come accross it (masteraudio is backwards compatible). I highly suggest an overclock as XBMC can be a bit slow with the gui regardless of how you stream the files. I had the 256 mb version and I imagine this is much better with 512 version (the joys of being an early adopter).

I used the Cooler Master HAF 912 as my case. I would not suggest it as the SATA data and power connectors were wedged badly against the door and there did not appear to be enough space for 90 degree connectors. I'm sure someone around here could give you a better case recommendation and I should have asked them. It works fine but if I ever get a bad connection from a SATA cable I know why.

I never use AsRock SATA cables that come with the motherboard as I had a bad experience with them in my gaming rig. They are very cheap so this is a non issue for me.

I customized a version of Linux Mint to make WebbHTPC on sourceforge for 64 bit x86. I am expert on most things Linux video and audio. A Raspberry Pi comes very close to a $300 custom built HTPC. The fact that I cannot run Aereo or NFL rewind kills it for me as well as the slow restarts. I guess your just supposed to leave the thing always on. If your patient it makes for an excellent mini HTPC. You can link me to a more appropriate forum if you have questions on setting up the Pi.
 

cyberjock

Inactive Account
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
19,526
It is read/write throughput data for various files sizes and chunk sizes. It makes no sense to me either because the throughput number are too big like it never touches the hard drive and stays in ram which might be what is happening.

That's EXACTLY 100% what is happening. You pretty much need a 4 year degree in iozone to understand it and be able to apply it properly. Needless to say, iozone -a is NOT appropriate at all.

I knew you didn't know what you were doing when your 3rd or 4th post said you are doing 2.2GB/sec. I have one of the fastest pools in these parts, and I can barely touch 1GB/sec. There's no chance in hell your server is doing much beyond 1/2 that, in a best case scenario.


To be honest(please forgive me) you've made so many mistakes I never wanted to post here.

First: You mention going with ECC RAM, then went with a CPU, motherboard, and RAM that isn't ECC RAM supported. So despite you installing ECC RAM, you aren't using the ECC function. No, I don't have a typo in that sentence. If you want ECC you need to buy a motherboard with a server chipset and a CPU that supports ECC RAM. Hint: NO celerons support ECC.

Second: You asked if its dangerous to run without a UPS. Anyone that works on servers knows you don't boot up a server without one. It's covered in the manual, and there's literally dozens of "examples" of why you need an UPS in the forum if you want real-world dataloss to get that checkbook to fly open.

Third: You ran iozone -a. I really had to laugh at that. Not because if your lack of understanding which is very common and not shameful at all but because you ran zero additional parameters. Most everyone tricks out iozone with a dozen or more parameters thinking the are so awesome because of the testing parameters they chose. But, the reality of it is so many people get those parameters wrong it's funnier when you tell them they got it wrong and they try to defend themselves. I don't even run iozone because, like I said, you pretty much need a 4 year degree in the application to use it properly.
 

brw02005

Dabbler
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
30
How do you know ECC is not working? Both motherboard and CPU claim ECC support. I am looking to find a way to confirm it is functioning.
 
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