New to FreeNAS, diskless installation and setup

[jkim]

Hi,

I'm completely new to FreeNAS, and I can't for the life of me work out a couple of things.

I am setting up on an HP MS Gen8 Celeron with 16Gb RAM, using the microSD as boot drive, and 4 x 6Tb disks, intending to RAIDZ2.
I was formerly running OMV with linux ZFS, but found a few minor annoyances (i.e. pppd/l2tpd packet misalignment), so decided to take the dive in giving FreeNAS a go.

I have run into deal breaker issues that may be due to my own ignorance or may be due to product limitations.

1. Diskless installation and setup.
All of the instructions I've seen require creating the disks before performing configuration.
I don't want to do this.
I want to configure everything except disk and shares first, and then add the disks in later, set up zfs and set up cifs/samba as the very last activity after testing the rest of the installation is perfect.
Is there a method to do this?
An example is the user home directory, which I can't seem to set. I get an error about mount points... but the OS disk (microSD) should be a valid mount point, should it not? So why can't I do:
Shell-> cd / -> mkdir home, then create user through the GUI, setting the home folder to /home/userabc ?
Another is plugins, which won't display/install because there are no volumes (except the boot volume).

2. DNS resolution
I have to enter the IP and not the name of the machine.
I can't seem to set up mDNS in my diskless installation (don't see any menus for it anywhere).
Altering my host file on the PCs that will connect to the NAS is not a solution - the NAS must broadcast via my router to the rest of my PCs.
This worked out of the box with zero configuration for OMV, but does not seem to work at all for FreeNAS.
I have tried:
- Setting DNS1 to the IP of my router
- Setting and resetting the host name

Most likely the above is all due to my ignorance, but I can't for the life of me seem to find the guides relevant for a diskless setup, and not having disks seems to be (haven't installed any disks yet so can't confirm whether these are resolved when following the "usual" method of installing disks first) a blocker.

 

[SweetAndLow]

1. Share, jails/plugins, home directors, ect all use your pool in some form. Without a pool you can't expect them to work. Freenas is an appliance you don't modify the boot device or make changes to the base os.

2. Freenas has nothing to do with dns. You need a dns server to handle that stuff.

Why don't your create a pool with your disks? If you expect to import your zol pool you might want to think twice. It probably won't go very well sice freenas makes assumptions that won't be valid.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[jkim]

1. Share, jails/plugins, home directors, ect all use your pool in some form. Without a pool you can't expect them to work. Freenas is an appliance you don't modify the boot device or make changes to the base os.

2. Freenas has nothing to do with dns. You need a dns server to handle that stuff.

Why don't your create a pool with your disks? If you expect to import your zol pool you might want to think twice. It probably won't go very well sice freenas makes assumptions that won't be valid.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

1. If the base OS will be untouched, does that mean the /var/logs folder will also reside on the pool and not the OS drive? How big should the OS drive be? I have a 64Gb microSD used for the OS drive, but if nothing is going to be saved to it, it sounds like it may be better to install to a 8gb usb stick and use the microSD as the first volume to put all the OS stuff on it so it doesn't contaminate my data disks.
2. ??? Not getting you here. If I give my Windows machine the name WinAbc, I can access it via \\WinAbc without a dedicated DNS server, since it is broadcasting it's name out. Same with my Mint box, and same with OMV (i.e. using \\omvAbc for the samba share and http://omvAbc to access the administration page). However If I give my freenas installation the name freenasAbc, I cannot access it via http://freenasAbc or https://freenasAbc... I must type http://192.168.0.254, which is a real pain in the rear if I want to leave it on DHCP so it will auto allocate the IP when I change routers (some routers use 192.168.0.x by default while others seem to use the 192.168.1.x) and forget to change the IP settings before bringing down the old router (or if the old router dies on me).
3. I want to ensure that my disks only contain the data I put on it and nothing else. Complete separation of Operational vs Storage.

 

[depasseg]

3. I want to ensure that my disks only contain the data I put on it and nothing else. Complete separation of Operational vs Storage.

I think you might be over-engineering this a bit. The boot pool will contain the OS, configuration, logs, report data (this is the "System Dataset" and is configurable, but by default will be on the boot pool). You need a data pool in order to configure and create shares, jails, plugins, etc. All that Data will be on your data pool. The configuration info will be on your boot device.

And I thought mdns was installed. I can see the service is running.

Code:

[root@freenas1] ~# ps aux | grep mdns
nobody      7585   0.0  0.0   22488   2224 ??  Ss   Thu11AM     0:16.88 /usr/local/sbin/mdnsd
root        7986   0.0  0.0   12056   1552 ??  Is   Thu11AM     0:00.00 daemon: /usr/local/libexec/nas/register_mdns.py[46404] (daemon)
root       46404   0.0  0.0  182564  14624 ??  I     3:38PM     0:00.76 /usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/libexec/nas/register_mdns.py (python2.7)
root       66711   0.0  0.0   16284   1984  0  S+    9:11AM     0:00.00 grep mdns
[root@freenas1] ~# 

 

[SweetAndLow]

1. If the base OS will be untouched, does that mean the /var/logs folder will also reside on the pool and not the OS drive? How big should the OS drive be? I have a 64Gb microSD used for the OS drive, but if nothing is going to be saved to it, it sounds like it may be better to install to a 8gb usb stick and use the microSD as the first volume to put all the OS stuff on it so it doesn't contaminate my data disks.
2. ??? Not getting you here. If I give my Windows machine the name WinAbc, I can access it via \\WinAbc without a dedicated DNS server, since it is broadcasting it's name out. Same with my Mint box, and same with OMV (i.e. using \\omvAbc for the samba share and http://omvAbc to access the administration page). However If I give my freenas installation the name freenasAbc, I cannot access it via http://freenasAbc or https://freenasAbc... I must type http://192.168.0.254, which is a real pain in the rear if I want to leave it on DHCP so it will auto allocate the IP when I change routers (some routers use 192.168.0.x by default while others seem to use the 192.168.1.x) and forget to change the IP settings before bringing down the old router (or if the old router dies on me).
3. I want to ensure that my disks only contain the data I put on it and nothing else. Complete separation of Operational vs Storage.

You are making this to complicated. Have you read the manual? Your boot device only needs to be 8GB in size. Maybe larger if you want to keep around lots of boot environments. Your logs will get stored in the zfs pool by default. Anything that does writes should get stored in your zfs pool.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[Mirfster]

using the microSD as boot drive

Can't recall, but isn't this not a recommendation anymore? Of course, I may be totally wrong.

 

[danb35]

Can't recall, but isn't this not a recommendation anymore?

An SD card has never been a recommended boot device.

 

[Ericloewe]

An SD card has never been a recommended boot device.

Yeah, El-Cheapo SD card readers have been known to cause trouble for a long time. There's just too many layers (SD -> USB Mass Storage Class -> SCSI).

 

[jkim]

And I thought mdns was installed.

Mine doesn't seem to have this.

Anything that does writes should get stored in your zfs pool.

That's your desired setup. My desired setup is only my data only lives on the storage disks. Any and all application, configuration, etc all live off the storage disks. This is non-negotiable. If Freenas won't allow me to do this, Freenas isn't the right product for me.

Yeah, El-Cheapo SD card readers have been known to cause trouble for a long time.

The microSD card slot and USB interface are both intended for the boot OS.
It's not an "el cheapo reader". It's on the motherboard itself... it's a proper server board with internal microSD and USB slots specifically for boot devices.
I've had no troubles running Mint and OMV off the SD card, and I run ESXi 6 off the SD card slot on my other machine (PowerEdge T630).
In no cases did I need to add disks to configure the environment, bar storage, shares and share permissions. Obviously creating VMs needed the disks to store VMDKs, but configuring ESXi itself didn't need any.
I really don't understand why this wouldn't be a given.

 

[Ericloewe]

It's not an "el cheapo reader". It's on the motherboard itself... it's a proper server board.

Even so, they've acquired a reputation for flakiness. Always worth making sure they're not causing the issue by using USB flash drives as a trial.

 

[danb35]

If you're going to store logs and reporting databases (i.e., the .system dataset) on your SD card, expect them to fail frequently. If that configuration is "non-negotiable", you'd be (even more) well-advised to use an SSD for your boot device rather than an SD card. If the combination of .system dataset on the boot device, and boot device on SD card, is non-negotiable, suggest you look at a different OS.

 

[SweetAndLow]

Mine doesn't seem to have this.


That's your desired setup. My desired setup is only my data only lives on the storage disks. Any and all application, configuration, etc all live off the storage disks. This is non-negotiable. If Freenas won't allow me to do this, Freenas isn't the right product for me.


The microSD card slot and USB interface are both intended for the boot OS.
It's not an "el cheapo reader". It's on the motherboard itself... it's a proper server board with internal microSD and USB slots specifically for boot devices.
I've had no troubles running Mint and OMV off the SD card, and I run ESXi 6 off the SD card slot on my other machine (PowerEdge T630).
In no cases did I need to add disks to configure the environment, bar storage, shares and share permissions. Obviously creating VMs needed the disks to store VMDKs, but configuring ESXi itself didn't need any.
I really don't understand why this wouldn't be a given.

Again have you tried reading anything about how freenas works? I think it will work great for you but you keep making these strange requirements. FreeNAS is a read-only appliance for the most part. You don't install apps to the system, you install those into a jail that live on your pool in a jails dataset. Your config lives in a freenas config database that lives in the system dataset which can be either on your boot media or on your pool. By default the system dataset lives on your pool because it also stores all your log files which get written to all the time. If this lived on your sd/usb media it will die very fast. You keep saying storing information on your pool is a deal breaker but in reality it's the best way to do it and most people don't even know it's there. Heck if we didn't tell you you wouldn't know.

On a side note your attitude will not get you very far here. You keep trying to show how much you know and all the things you have done. like you are trying to prove something. No one cares what you think you know but if you take a second to listen and try to learn something before you dismiss the feedback you might actually be successful.

 

[depasseg]

Mine doesn't seem to have this.

What version are you running.

My desired setup is only my data only lives on the storage disks. Any and all application, configuration, etc all live off the storage disks. This is non-negotiable. If Freenas won't allow me to do this, Freenas isn't the right product for me.

Your setup (system dataset) can reside on any pool you desire. It can be on the boot pool, you could create a separate pool just for the system dataset, or you could put it on any one of many data pools. It doesn't matter.

And as others have mentioned, putting your system dataset on a device that doesn't have a decent write longevity (like an SD card) is a bad idea as it will likely wear out and fail rather quickly. I've gone through 4 USB sticks over a year (they were mirrored so I played leapfrog replacing them). Now I use a USB SSD stick.

 

[VladTepes]

That's your desired setup. My desired setup is only my data only lives on the storage disks. Any and all application, configuration, etc all live off the storage disks. This is non-negotiable. If Freenas won't allow me to do this, Freenas isn't the right product for me.

If that's the case then Freenas isn't the right product for you.

However what none of us appear to understand is WHY those things are 'non negotiable'? What advantage do you see in doing it 'your way'?

 

[jkim]

If you're going to store logs and reporting databases (i.e., the .system dataset) on your SD card

I think we're getting off topic with all this talk about whether SD is appropriate or not.
The question isn't about whether SD is appropriate, but how I can have all of the operational files on the boot volume and fully configure it without the storage volumes being installed.

Again have you tried reading anything about how freenas works? I think it will work great for you but you keep making these strange requirements.

I've read many install guides, and not a single one mentions a method of doing what I want to do.
I don't "keep" making "strange requirements.
My requirements have been the same from the very first post - installing and fully configuring (with exception to the storage functionality) the OS and have it fully working without any disks installed.
Telling me my requirements are wrong because Freenas works differently doesn't help whatsoever - my requirements are my requirements.
Telling me Freenas does not suit me because it does not fulfil my requirements is an answer (not a desired one, but one nonetheless).

What version are you running.

9.10 or whatever the latest was when I downloaded it on Sunday.
I plugged in my monitor to the machine last night and saw the reason why this wasn't working.
mDNSResponder: mDNS_Register_internal: ERROR!! Tried to register AuthRecord
Googling seemed to have turned up that this wasn't something new, and was supposedly fixed so don't understand why I'd be getting it on the latest and greatest.

And as others have mentioned, putting your system dataset on a device that doesn't have a decent write longevity (like an SD card) is a bad idea as it will likely wear out and fail rather quickly

That's why I bought 2 of these 64Gb microSDs with wear leveling. It should last me a good 3 - 4 years between the 2 of them, before both fail. Assuming log data rate of 1Gb / day, microSD should last in excess of 10 years due to wear... but we all know the controller will fail before then.

However what none of us appear to understand is WHY those things are 'non negotiable'? What advantage do you see in doing it 'your way'?

1. OCD... I just "want" my disks pristine. I'm not entirely happy with the Windows solution since ACL and recycle information all live on the same volume as the data, but that's one thing I can accept since these items actually relate to the data. However, application executables or configuration of my VPN or printer or any other shared infrastructure service I will be installing that have no relevance to the data should not live on the data volume. What I seem to be hearing here is that it will need to live on my data volume, which, if true, is pretty much a deal breaker.
2. Maintain separate "OS" with completely separate configuration, sharing only the data volumes. 2 USB or microSD installed separately with completely different configuration, that I can just "plug and play"... sort of like dual booting but more "manual".

Perhaps the question in the OP was misunderstood or something.
For this particular installation (the first and simpler of 2), I want to...
> Install OS
> Install VPN server
> Install VPN client
> Configure network to bypass/pin traffic from VPN server to client
> Install and configure printer services
> Install (or configure existing) firewall to allow certain users and profiles network access over vpn connection only
> Test printer services
> Penetration test VPN
> Install disks
> Setup Samba/CIFS
In that order.
I'm pretty much stuck right up the top in between the Install OS and Install VPN server steps.

Now, as mentioned, I have the HP Microserver G8 with 16Gb ECC RAM.
The motherboard has internal boot dedicated microSD and USB slots.
I can potentially install both, and use 1 for the OS and 1 for the application data, if this is what is absolutely required as a minimum, although preference is to use the microSD exclusively since it's very fast.
I have "to play with": (speeds were tested myself which is why there's some variance even between the same products)
2 x 64Gb microSD (both brand new, 95Mb+ write speed)
3 x 16Gb microSD (1 new, 2 old, relatively slow with 20 - 40Mb write speed)
10 x 8Gb USB (all new, very slow with 12-25Mb write speed)

With these, I want to build 2 completely separate "plug and play" environments (separation at the physical OS storage hardware level), with the only common factor being the magnetic disks and what is in those disks (user data).

 

[depasseg]

installing and fully configuring (with exception to the storage functionality) the OS and have it fully working without any disks installed.

You can install and configure FreeNAS without any data disks, as long as what you are trying to configure doesn't require understanding the data structure on the data pool. IOW, you can't configure a share, snapshot, replication, user permissions, etc because the system needs to see the data pool to verify the proper datasets and folders exist. You could try creating a dummy pool temporarily, create a fake data pool structure on it, do all your configuration stuff, then detach and destroy that data pool. Some of the settings might stick, but I know some get destroyed during the detach process. Good luck making it very difficult on yourself, and let us know if you find a solution that let's you configure stuff that doesn't exist.

 

[jkim]

IOW, you can't configure a share, snapshot, replication, user permissions, etc

You're talking about stuff that relates to the data.
I'm talking about stuff that doesn't relate to the data.

• VPN Server
• VPN Client
• USB Printer and Samba/CUPS printer sharing
• Network hairpinning configuration
• User network access restrictions (not user file system restriction, but whether a particular user can use bge0, bge1 or ppp0 and in what capacity)

None of which are associated with any data or data pool what-so-ever.

Given what I read was that Freenas is primarily GUI driven, I'd assumed that these would be driven through the plugins interface, since there weren't any references to these items in the core. However, because there are no data pools, the Plugins interface won't let me do anything there.

If needed, I can do these through the shell/command line, but is that the "proper" way of doing these things for FreeNAS?

Of course, if I were talking about snapshots/replication/ACL/etc, I'd understand the need for disks there since these are operations performed on the disk, but I'm not.

Here are the steps I want to follow again, with modifications to clarify intent

• Install OS
• Install VPN server
• Install VPN client
• Configure network to bypass/pin traffic from VPN server to client
• Install and configure printer services
• Install (or configure existing) firewall to allow certain users and profiles network access over vpn connection only
• Test printer services
• Penetration test the installation via both ethernet, internet and VPN (may need dummy storage at this point to test storage penetration testing... still thinking about this one, but this is key before adding in the real disks)
• Install disks
• Setup Samba/CIFS/snapshots/replication/ACL/other storage and data related configuration

that let's you configure stuff that doesn't exist.

The point is - I'm not trying to configure stuff that doesn't exist.
The network and printer are both there, and they will be there irrespective of whether there are disks there or not.
All of the configuration related to network (VPN primarily, since native network over ethernet works mostly fine out of the box except for the broken mdns) and printer are totally independent of the storage disks that will be added when they arrive on 30th September.

 

[snaptec]

Vpn , cups is something for a jail or a different Server.
And a jail needs sotrage -> needs a pool.





Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

 

[danb35]

• VPN Server

• VPN Client

• USB Printer and Samba/CUPS printer sharing

• Network hairpinning configuration

• User network access restrictions (not user file system restriction, but whether a particular user can use bge0, bge1 or ppp0 and in what capacity)

FreeNAS doesn't support any of these natively, so you'll need to create at least one jail to do this (and I'm far from certain that the last bullet will be possible at all). Jails must reside in a dataset on a pool other than the boot device. This is, to use your term, non-negotiable. If it is essential to you that these services reside on the boot device, I repeat that FreeNAS isn't for you.

 

[jkim]

Vpn , cups is something for a jail or a different Server.
And a jail needs sotrage -> needs a pool.

FreeNAS doesn't support any of these natively, so you'll need to create at least one jail to do this

Thank you both... that was the answer I was looking for (well was hoping wasn't the answer, and was hoping there was a way to do it).

So would the following work?
8Gb USB flash = FreeNAS base system
64Gb microSD = VPN, Printer, Network hairpinning, Network Access Control, logs folders
HDD = Storage only

(and I'm far from certain that the last bullet will be possible at all)

I'm intending on doing this through the software firewall (and I'm assuming Freenas has one of these). If it's anything like linux, I have iptables scripts from my OMV deployment that work perfectly for what I want to do.

If it is essential to you that these services reside on the boot device, I repeat that FreeNAS isn't for you.

It's essential to me that these do not live on the HDDs.
Whether they are on the boot or not isn't essential per se, but all SATA connectors will be occupied by the HDDs, leaving the internal USB and microSD as the only options to service these, and the USB drives are super slow. I also don't want to use any external usb ports (whether rear or front) to host operating system files, so the 2 ports on the motherboard will be the only options.