I'll be that guy (PMS update ETA)

[darkryoushii]

Hey all,

I am going to preface this by saying I really don't want to be that guy and sound pushy and demanding, I am genuinely curious. Is the plugin repo updated automatically on some form of schedule or does it have to be manually updated.

Since Apr 10, 2014 the Plex Media Server has been out of date. As of yesterday the port listed on their forums has been updated to the latest publicly available version. I am wondering if this has just been forgotten about, or if it happens on an automatic schedule.

As someone who recently picked up a Chromecast for cheap, I am quite excited to update my PMS to make the most of my server and squash a few bugs.

Thanks

 

[Joshua Parker Ruehlig]

someone needs to update the freebsd port.
someone needsneeds to compile the new pbi for freenas
someone needs to update the freenas repo.

alot of it automated but those steps require a human.

 

[darkryoushii]

Step one has been done: http://www.freshports.org/multimedia/plexmediaserver/

That's all good though, thanks for your reply! I know everyone has lives (currently in the middle of exam period myself) so definitely take your time.
Was more curious on the process.

Thanks!

 

[cyberjock]

Yeah, everything is handled manually with some of it clearly outside of our control(ports in particular).

As for updating PMS, there's quite a few ways that PMS can be updated yourself. Yes the WebGUI will show the old PBI version, but in-line upgrades are well known to not quite be 100% for several reasons that are not solved easily from what I've read.

I would recommend that if you are that eager to go to the newer version you seek out how to:

1. Migrate away from the PBI. I've run Plex in a jail for experimenting and handled several updates of it from the CLI on my own. (I use Plex, but not on FreeNAS)
2. Search the forums for how to update the plug-in jail's plex install yourself.
3. Learn how to update the PBI and provide an updated PBI to iX for integration for everyone.

 

[darkryoushii]

I have found and modified some instructions from here to work with the pbi files. I will work on attempting to update the pbi file myself sometime soon but for anyone eager here are the instructions:
Disclaimer: This worked for me but I am not responsible for any problems that may occur or data that may be lost. Do so at your own risk.
I have had a bug since I installed plex where I could not update my settings through the GUI "Your settings could not be saved" but this is not related to the update.

Code:

su
mkdir /tmp/src
cd /tmp/src
wget http://downloads.plexapp.com/plex-media-server/0.9.9.10.458-008ea34/PlexMediaServer-0.9.9.10.458-008ea34-freebsd-amd64.tar.bz2
tar xvf PlexMediaServer-0.9.9.10.458-008ea34-freebsd-amd64.tar.bz2
service plexmediaserver stop
mv /usr/pbi/plexmediaserver-amd64/share/plexmediaserver /usr/pbi/plexmediaserver-amd64/share/plexmediaserver.old
mkdir /usr/pbi/plexmediaserver-amd64/share/plexmediaserver
cp -r /tmp/src/PlexMediaServer-0.9.9.10.458-008ea34/* /usr/pbi/plexmediaserver-amd64/share/plexmediaserver/
service plexmediaserver start

Successfully running 9.9.10 and thanks you Cyberjock and Joshua for motivating me to try it myself!

 

[Magnus33]

Ahh correct thread that i missed.

I beginning to wonder whats the point of having a plex plugin in freenas.

When plex routinely becomes outdated but the client is constantly updated it can start causing issues.
I don't use this plex server other then a testing environment since we never know if its going to fall way behind or keep up.

I understand this is free but version control for the plugins is a mess.

 

[cyberjock]

Ahh correct thread that i missed.

I beginning to wonder whats the point of having a plex plugin in freenas.

When plex routinely becomes outdated but the client is constantly updated it can start causing issues.
I don't use this plex server other then a testing environment since we never know if its going to fall way behind or keep up.

I understand this is free but version control for the plugins is a mess.

And now you know why I don't advocate for the plugins. They are pretty close to push-button, and they are an obvious answer for people that aren't willing to learn jails. But they do come at a cost- they aren't always up to date.

 

[Magnus33]

Yeah it sort of a confused mess.

I think it would have been better to have the plugin system recognize script updating rather then have the button there for updating.
This would allow for ever improving script updating and also put the responsibility of updating directly into the user hands.

As it is we can update the plugin through scripts but the system doesn't notice and still reports its the old plugin.

 

[cyberjock]

You can't exactly do that easily.. here's why:

Plex has two versions: the plexpass and public version. Depending on what you have you might need one and not the other. Then you have to deal with changing between the two(what if you pay for 6 months and then stop?), then you have to deal with the fact that the updates may or may not require package updates. Theoretical example: what if plex 0.9.9 required php5-1.05 package but plex 0.9.10 requires php5-1.1? Unfortunately the only way to make a good distinction of that is to have a human look at the errors with their eyeballs and see that the error means you need a newer(or older) version of php5. There is no doubt in my mind that at some point Plex will require something newer than what everyone's template currently has. And then we're going to get a cubic a**load of people asking how to fix their template. And I have no doubt that many people have jacked with their plex installs enough that they will be unable to apply the fix. That's also assuming they are capable of applying the fix. (Keep in mind when that plex updating script came out people asked for youtube videos on how to put it in your jail and run it...). The level of knowledge for your average user is extremely low but their expectations are that they get what "pro's" get.

Literally, the only "good" option is to build the template with static versions and throw it out there for the world. Then updates are from static templates as well(which is why updating Plex has been such a nightmare). That is how we do it now, and it's the only sane way to handle it. If you don't do static templates and you create the jail on-the-fly you run into potential package conflicts, missing dependencies, etc. People already create 50 threads when stuff doesn't work. Imagine if everyone and their mother suddenly couldn't install Plex because of some dependency change when everyone is doing this script update? What if I told you that you have to update an installed package on your plugin and you can't upgrade that package until you remove 2 other conflicting dependencies elsewhere? You might be able to figure it out, but I can guarantee you that 99.9% of plex plugin users wouldn't be able to fix it and they *will* expect a step-by-step guide, and they *will* expect it immediately, and they *will* expect it to be provided for free.

My personal take on this whole thing: provide zero support for what you do inside the jails and with the plugins on the forum. We support the jail framework and that's it. What you do inside of it is totally and completely your own chosing. Get rid of it all.. you got a question, don't ask it here. To be honest, what goes on inside the jail(or plugin) is nothing more than freebsd stuff. This forum is not prepared to handle nor are there enough experienced users to handle the workload of everyone asking how to do everything in freebsd. That's exactly what we get right now, and it's why I just close my browser tab when I see them. Do I know the answer? Quite often I do. But I'm not about to start teaching 4/5 new users how to use FreeBSD. That's just not possible when there's only me and only 24 hours in a day. Not to mention 99.9% of those 4/5 users wouldn't even consider paying someone to do it, and I'm not about to devote my life to other people's jails/plugins for free. I do like having a roof over myhead.

Anyway, when crap goes bad in the jail people come here to post. Do you think people that can't run Windows in a VM and go to the VMWare forums complaining get assistance? Hell no they don't. The thread is deleted. Now when you post that Windows is running, you've narrowed down a networking problem to something that revolves around the VMWare virtualization framework, *then* you get their attention. Until you actually prove that though, they don't want to hear from you. They don't care what you run in the VM. They only care about the framework(and rightfully so). VMWare isn't about to support every OS on the planet just because you can run it in a VM. Yet we're somehow of the idea that we should support everything that can run on FreeBSD because it can run in our virtualization framework.

And for the record, when people complain that some program doesn't run in the virtualbox hack do you know what I do? I delete it.

 

[Magnus33]

More then one plex install could bypass the plex vs plexpass version .

That said i agree there plugin area certainly turned into a mess with the developers trying to please people.
I think people have forgotten this is done for free and if you want something to work its either get your hands dirty or pay someone to do it.

I got no problems digging in and getting things done myself but i worry that the plugin mess will eventually distract and make the rest of freens suffer.

Maybe a setup where if they want something supported enough then they donate for that and the stock freenas which comes for free gets the development focus.

What does blow my mind is so many complain when something breaks but they never make a backup incase of something going wrong!
Nearly all can be fixed by restoring a backup but so few actually make one.

 

[brbubba]

So I take it that if you want an updated plugin, such as plex, you'll have to do it manually and install it manually to a jail. Now I can't figure out why I don't have portsnap on my system, what am I missing here?

 

[cyberjock]

So I take it that if you want an updated plugin, such as plex, you'll have to do it manually and install it manually to a jail. Now I can't figure out why I don't have portsnap on my system, what am I missing here?

The short answer: yep!

I've never liked the idea of plugins. Once you give your average mouth-breather the plugin they'll expect any and every feature to work 100% of the time, at maximum performance, provide near-instantaneous updates as needed, etc.

The reality of it is that while you may run plugins yourself, YOU are still responsible for keeping that software up to date. I'd bet less than 1% of plugins in the wild are being maintained. Why so little? Because if you knew how to update them you'd know how to install them, so you wouldn't be running a plugin jail to begin with!

 

[Magnus33]

The problem is that bad idea for the average mouth breath is basically doing testing for the more commercial end of the freenas project.
Yes its free to all but features get run through the free version often before hitting the like of the truenas version.

Iam sure everyone here has no issue with getting something like this for free and help iron out kinks before they hit the money making version.
Going sorry bub your on your own after then been helping work out bugs isn't a great idea.
That's something boxee did to its user base three times and things didn't end great for them

There has to be a balance between the two .

 

[Ericloewe]

The problem is that bad idea for the average mouth breath is basically doing testing for the more commercial end of the freenas project.
Yes its free to all but features get run through the free version often before hitting the like of the truenas version.

Iam sure everyone here has no issue with getting something like this for free and help iron out kinks before they hit the money making version.
Going sorry bub your on your own after then been helping work out bugs isn't a great idea.
That's something boxee did to its user base three times and things didn't end great for them

There has to be a balance between the two .

Well, FreeNAS is being actively maintained and developed, with TrueNAS only having a few enterprise-oriented features that FreeNAS doesn't. The problem is that it's hard enough getting the core functionality in working order that secondary stuff remains exactly that - secondary.

 

[Magnus33]

Sad but true.
I expect this well change eventually since freenas has great word of mouth and who knows at anytime the upgrade issues could get fixed at anytime and plugins could be much easier to support.

 

[cyberjock]

Well, here's the problem. TrueNAS is the "business grade" version of FreeNAS. TrueNAS has no jails to speak of. So iX really doesn't have a direct financial reason to support the jails, plugins, etc. They do of course have indirect reasons which is exactly why the jails exist. The problem is that people are expecting perfection for something that is hard to justify spending significant developer resources on.

There are also quite a few tickets in bugs.freenas.org as well as threads on this forum made by people that barely grasp how the technology works but expect it to work in a particular way. Unfortunately that's a really nasty place to be in because when you have to explain to someone that their push-button solution doesn't work how they want their typical answer is 'well, then fix it' and often it's not something that we want to spend resources on or something we just can't fix for technical reasons.

 

[Magnus33]

Yes its business grade but lets be honest here in a lot of ways it what go into free eventually makes it into truenas and that shall be including plugins (or someone made a serious typo in the fact sheet).

This sounds more like all those ungrateful ones have gotten under the skin and you like to taser a few (trust me i totally understand that).
Sometimes they are just way too much and totally can't grasp Fix it involves 6 weeks of no sleep a break down and way too much caffeine.

But the truth is from a business stand point this was always going to happen because the more features,more flexibility and ease of use your product has the better it sales.
Some though are never going to understand that this is free, there are going to be bugs and that we are testing the product to a certain degree for the ability to use it.

Hell if they want me to test it so bugs can be worked out for the business version iam all for it its a fair trade but there always going to be those that are clueless and ungrateful.

 

[cyberjock]

Yes its business grade but lets be honest here in a lot of ways it what go into free eventually makes it into truenas and that shall be including plugins (or someone made a serious typo in the fact sheet).

True, but plugins and jails will never make it into TrueNAS from what I've heard. Companies do not build a file server and then run non-file-server applications. That's bad joo-joo. Look at how many people have had systems that wouldn't finish booting or had other problems because of jails/plugins. VIMAGE support itself is experimental. Yet quite a few plugins depend on it to function. I could be mistaken but I believe that Plex and Owncloud plugins come to mind.

But the truth is from a business stand point this was always going to happen because the more features,more flexibility and ease of use your product has the better it sales.

Yeah, but businesses that drop 5 figures or more do NOT take a file server and decide to run dozens of other applications on them. That's the raw truth. :P

 

[Magnus33]

True, but plugins and jails will never make it into TrueNAS from what I've heard. Companies do not build a file server and then run non-file-server applications. That's bad joo-joo. Look at how many people have had systems that wouldn't finish booting or had other problems because of jails/plugins. VIMAGE support itself is experimental. Yet quite a few plugins depend on it to function. I could be mistaken but I believe that Plex and Owncloud plugins come to mind.



Yeah, but businesses that drop 5 figures or more do NOT take a file server and decide to run dozens of other applications on them. That's the raw truth. :p

You may want to take a look at truenas comparison sheet then. http://web.freenas.org/for-business/

Either someone made a error or they not been completely forthcoming.

Yes business tend not to want to run the likes of say plex but i worked in enough of them that they like control and are often paranoid .
There could be many uses for it .

But the truth is we are both just best guessing here.

Someone programer could come up with a great idea and plugins suddenly vastly improve or they could just get feed up and drop it.
Least the core works fine.

 

[cyberjock]

Magnus33: keep in mind that the listed "plugins" may not be plugins in the same capacity of what we are describing. There are MAJOR changes coming for 10.0. ;)