From 32 bit to 64 bit

[Rob1]

Hi,

Yesterday I had a question. Turns out that my system needs to be a 64 bit.
So I started looking for information (and prises ;))

Turn out that mij mobo (Asus P5N-MX) can handle 64 bit. The reason that it's running now as a 32 bit is because of the memory, I have 3Gb (1 x 1Gb and 1 x 2Gb). If I replace the 1Gb for a 2Gb and reinstall with a 64 version of FreeNas it should be okay.

As I understand more things are posible then conserning plugins. Now I just have one question! If I reinstall (on USB), can I then import my ZSF drives? I have 2 1Tb drives and the are mirrored. Or is it more wise to make a copy of al the files (foto's) to an other drive (om my computer)? Just to be sure, I can not effort to lose them.

Thanks,
Rob.

 

[jyavenard]

not sure I understand your reason for running 32 bits in the first place.

You don't have to use 32 bits OS if you have less than 4GB of RAM! So having 3GB of RAM doesn't force you to use a 32 bits OS: 64 bits would have been just fine to start with.

64 bits or 32 bits is irrelevant as far as ZFS goes; your pool will mount just fine. Having said that, running ZFS on FreeBSD in 32 bits mode isn't recommended to start with (and in Linux it's strongly discouraged as it's buggy)

Have backup anyway, you should always do... But the risks to your pool are very low in changing OS

 

[gpsguy]

While one can use the x64 version with less than 4Gb, the x86 version is more efficient.

So the question is, if you can use 3.5GB...3.8GB of an i386 system's 4GB memory, or all 4GB of it by running x64, which do you do?

The nonobvious answer is that i386 wins, because on average an i386 system takes about 25-30% less RAM than an identical x64. The i386 will make better use of 3.5GB than x64 makes of 4GB. The i386 will feel like an x64 with about 5GB.

It looks like 4Gb is the maximum amount of RAM that you can put on that motherboard. Given that the minimum requirement for ZFS on FreeNAS is 8Gb, I would replace the motherboard. Get a mobo/CPU combination that works with ECC RAM.

 

[jyavenard]

While one can use the x64 version with less than 4Gb, the x86 version is more efficient.

it really depends on what type of efficiency we're talking about.
If it's about memory use, yes.. but very slightly due to the small memory overhead using 64 bits registers and opcodes.
However, x86_64 is almost always faster across the board thanks to faster ABI and more CPU registers.

ZFS on 64 bits will work better and is preferred: not just due to how much physical memory can be installed.
Read:
https://wiki.freebsd.org/ZFSKnownProblems:

Note that i386 and other 32-bit architectures are still definitely not recommended for use with ZFS due to address space issues

and
https://wiki.freebsd.org/ZFSTuningGuide#ZFS_Tuning_Guide

 

[cyberjock]

No, jgreco has it right on this one. If you have 4GB of RAM or less you're better with the 32bit version. The whole reason jyavenard quoted is not because of the efficiency or anything else. It's that ZFS should be used with LOTS of RAM(aka more than 4GB of RAM). 4GB is not "a lot of RAM", and having 16GB of RAM with the 32bit version of FreeNAS is dumb. You cannot allocate more than 4GB of RAM because of the 32-bit version of FreeNAS. Contrary to popular belief, there is no PAE with FreeBSD 9 or FreeNAS 9. So do NOT incorrectly assume there is.

There is some danger and inaccuracy to choosing to use freebsd's wiki with FreeNAS. FreeNAS has unique code that makes it different from 9.1 stable and 9.1 release. In some cases the recommendations from freebsd pages don't apply or aren't accurate. It's a mish-mash of code to make FreeNAS (hopefully) better at being a file server than FreeBSD would.

Considering you are limited to 4GB of RAM, you do need to upgrade your hardware. That 8GB of RAM warning in the manual is not a joke and was added because of so many people that have lost their pools related to kernel panics from insufficient RAM. There's a difference between "it works" and "I should do this" and for you "it works". You should NOT do that, and as jyavenard said, have backups!

 

[Rob1]

First, thanks for the information.
Second, for what I'm using the server is that what I have good enought. The main thing I'm using it for is to store my photo's (most important) and some music.
If I look at the graphic the it shows me, it most of the time sleeping I think. Now I wanted to put the Owncould pluging and found out that that just works on a 64 bit version.

The first time I installed the FreeNas I tryed the 64 bit version, but that didn't work, and the 32 did. Strange becouse when it was my Windows pc I had a 64 bit version running on it.

Anyway, I installed a second 2Gb RAM, so there is 4 GB RAM, the max of the mobo. But when I'm trying to install the 64 bit version I get the message "CPU can't handle long version"
Then there is also the text on the screen saying that it can't work out which disk we are booting from. It has to boot from the USB stick, that's what it always did.

Again, when it was an windows pc it was a 64 bit one.

Does someone have an idea what to do about the CPU that can't handle long version?
On internet I found something that I had to turn on MV in the BIOS, well if it's on or off doesn't matter.
For the rest didn't find anything els yet.

Well I hope one of you know's something.

Thanks,
Rob.

(see the screenshot)

 

[cyberjock]

What CPU do you have installed on that board?

 

[Rob1]

A Pentium 4 3.2Ghz dual core

 

[cyberjock]

what model number?

 

[Rob1]

I just take the processor out of the mobo and on it is the following:

Pentium 4
3.20Ghz/1M/800/04a
SL7PW
54528522
made in China

 

[Rob1]

Looked it up on internet now with all numbers above. On a German webshop it sais that this processor is not a 64 bit one. :(

Gues my problem is not solved, but I know the answer.

 

[cyberjock]

Yeah.. I was gonna say there's no way its a 64 bit CPU if FreeBSD is saying long mode not supported. That's why I wanted the model.

 

[jyavenard]

Only intel core 2 duo and later are 64 bits.

Pentium 4 certainly aren't. Core Duo aren't either

 

[Rob1]

So this will do the tric? Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Processor 2 x 2,13 Ghz
Found it for 12 euro's nearby my home.

 

[jyavenard]

Yes. That's a 64 bits compatible processor. I've found however that it runs 64 bits code about 6% slower than 32 bits one.

Next question though: is your motherboard and chipset compatible with that processor?

 

[Rob1]

In the manual of the mobo it say is it is.

It sais: CPU:
LGA socket for Intel Core 2 Quad/ Core 2 Duo/ Pentium D/ Pentium 4/ Celeron processors.
Competible with Intel 06/05b/05a processors
Supports Intel next generation 45nm CPU
Supports Enhanced Intel SpeedStep Technology (EIST)
Supports Intel Hyper-Threading Technology

 

[hawksight]

I was just reading and thinking, if your hardware is not up to ZFS, then why not backups your data, keep the 32 bit install and rebuild your storage as UFS for the time being?

I am guessing you can set-up a mirror between the two drives with that file system also. I don't know because I don't use it but just an idea.

Then when you have ZFS capable hardware (CPU and RAM) then move back to a ZFS option with the owncloud plugin.

 

[cyberjock]

I was just reading and thinking, if your hardware is not up to ZFS, then why not backups your data, keep the 32 bit install and rebuild your storage as UFS for the time being?

I am guessing you can set-up a mirror between the two drives with that file system also. I don't know because I don't use it but just an idea.

Then when you have ZFS capable hardware (CPU and RAM) then move back to a ZFS option with the owncloud plugin.

That was exactly what I was thinking. You should consider going to UFS until you can afford better hardware. You know, just like the manual says...

If you don't have at least 8GB of RAM with ZFS or 2GB of RAM with UFS, you should consider getting more powerful hardware before using FreeNAS® to store your data otherwise data loss may result.

 

[Rob1]

ZFS is working on the hardware I have now, it was just running on 32 bit. And in 32bit there are not many plugins for FreeNas. That is why I want to convert it in to a 64 bit version.
Speed and high performans in my case is nice but not too importand. For what I use the server now I use i gues like 20% of what it is capeble now whit this configuration.

 

[cyberjock]

But we're not talking about it performing great. We're talking about it not crashing and your pool getting destroyed. That line isn't for performance reasons, its for stability and protection of your data. Sorry, but just because "its working on the hardware you have now" does not mean you are safe from this kind of issue. We've had quite a few people that have had a single system crash kill their pool. We just had one 2 days ago. No chance of recovery as there are no tools to recover zpools.