Two FreeNAS backing up to each other?

[kirkdickinson]

I have a FreeNAS box running in my office right now and it has been happily humming along for about two months. I have been thinking of building another one to put in my house to use for a Plex server.

We have a family business and I live on the same property as our office, but about 500 yards away.

Last night I had an idea that am am wondering if it has any validity to it, so I thought I would post it here and see if I am missing any pitfalls.

Here is my thinking...
I need to backup my Office FreeNAS somewhere
I need to backup my (not yet built) Home FreeNAS somewhere
I am in easy wifi range for Ubiquiti Nanostation (https://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanostationm/)

Why not use the second Network interface on each of the FreeNAS boxes to set up a separate network and backup to each other?

I could back up all my office stuff to the Home FreeNAS and all the movies and stuff to the Office FreeNAS. Seems like this would be a really good offsite backup.

Attached is a drawing.

 

[kirkdickinson]

One thing that is not shown in the drawing is that I already have two other wireless setups from a third location where my main router is 192.168.0.1. I have a working network now between the house and office, but was thinking of setting up another just to connect the two FreeNAS boxes.

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

The basic idea of mutual backup seems sound enough.

What is the purpose of setting up a 2nd network between the two when you already have a working network they can both join?

 

[kirkdickinson]

What is the purpose of setting up a 2nd network between the two when you already have a working network they can both join?

The purpose of using a second network is to keep traffic off of the primary network. I am in a fairly rural area with three separate locations connected with Wi-Fi. We are deploying IP security cameras that I fear may already overload the current network.

Since this NAS has a second NIC why not use it?

 

[depasseg]

This will work. Do you anticipate creating separate Pools on each machine to store the replicated backups (makes it easier)? If not, then you will need to create a replication task for every root level dataset (since the backup target is unger the main dataset, you can't use the recursive option). I like the second network option, but it might not be needed. If you have a lot of data, and are going to use separate pools, then you can attach to the source machine for the initial replication. You can also schedule replication to work only between certain hours or not exceed a certain amount of bandwidth.

 

[joeschmuck]

Just for clarification... You are talking about using two different WiFi channels or just using different IP subnets?

If you are looking at adding two additional wireless routers and bridging them and placing those on a completely different and unoccupied WiFi channel (or at least with few people on that channel), and on the 192.168.1.x subnet, I think it will do what you desire. Of course if you already have a well established WiFi network between the two builds, just do as @depasseg suggests and sync the two units using a direct connection when you first get it running to move all the large amount of data at once, then all future changes over the WiFi.

My only real question though is about your storage capacity. Have you considered if the Office FreeNAS in your office is large enough to handle all your expected Home FreeNAS material? You may need to upgrade the capacity in your Office unit. Remember, stay below 80% of your maximum capacity for best FreeNAS results.

 

[kirkdickinson]

This will work. Do you anticipate creating separate Pools on each machine to store the replicated backups (makes it easier)? If not, then you will need to create a replication task for every root level dataset (since the backup target is unger the main dataset, you can't use the recursive option). I like the second network option, but it might not be needed. If you have a lot of data, and are going to use separate pools, then you can attach to the source machine for the initial replication. You can also schedule replication to work only between certain hours or not exceed a certain amount of bandwidth.

I probably will try to keep the data mirrored on both machines, with the movies and house stuff being mostly accessed on that end and the business stuff accessed on that end. I don't really have a security issue with office stuff being at home and vice versa because it is a family business and I manage both ends of the network. I had planned on syncing with the ethernet before splitting them up and connecting them with wifi.

 

[kirkdickinson]

Just for clarification... You are talking about using two different WiFi channels or just using different IP subnets?

If you are looking at adding two additional wireless routers and bridging them and placing those on a completely different and unoccupied WiFi channel (or at least with few people on that channel), and on the 192.168.1.x subnet, I think it will do what you desire. Of course if you already have a well established WiFi network between the two builds, just do as @depasseg suggests and sync the two units using a direct connection when you first get it running to move all the large amount of data at once, then all future changes over the WiFi.

My only real question though is about your storage capacity. Have you considered if the Office FreeNAS in your office is large enough to handle all your expected Home FreeNAS material? You may need to upgrade the capacity in your Office unit. Remember, stay below 80% of your maximum capacity for best FreeNAS results.

Different WiFi and Different IP Subnet.

As far as capacity. My current Office FreeNAS has 6 -4TB drives in ZFS2. I have everything on it and snaphots and am only using 3.34 of 13.3. I plan on doing more video editing since I got a Phantom 3 with 4 K camera, so should be adding to that. My case will hold 2 more drives and if I have to, I can offload these files add drives and build a new pool, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

I have no idea how many movies I am going to put on there, but even ripping them with MKV, I am only getting 5GB per movie max. Mostly want to put the kids movies on there so they will stop manhandling the DVD's. 200 moves tops.

Way huge overkill to set up a full copy of my current FreeNAS box just for the kids movies, but if I consider it a backup server, then that makes a difference. :)

 

[joeschmuck]

You know, ripped movies (DVD's) are not very large if you use a good tool like DVDFab and take them to MP4 format, then you have file sizes under 1.5 MB per movie. I have several movies still in MKV format, I really need to change them over to MP4. But everyone will do what suites them best. I do the same thing with the kid movies (now for the grand kids) and I only have almost a dozen movies for the adults. So if you rip the movies well, then they will not be consuming all your space. It could be your video editing files that you may store on your NAS that consume more space, or more likely the snapshots that will bite you in the rear.

Maybe when you setup the backup strategy, you only backup all the office NAS files to your system and backup only selected important data from the home NAS to the office NAS. I recommend that because you have snapshots on, take your time.

I like the way you justify your purchase. Mine was having a backup of all the computers in the home and being able to restore one once my wife or daughter infected it. Of course having family photos on tap was a nice touch too.

 

[depasseg]

Do you anticipate creating separate Pools on each machine to store the replicated backups (makes it easier)? If not, then you will need to create a replication task for every root level dataset (since the backup target is unger the main dataset, you can't use the recursive option).

It sounds like you are going to have a single pool on each system, which is fine. I just wanted to point out that you will need to pay attention to your replication tasks. You want to create a separate high level dataset on each system and use that at the target for replication. You will then need to create a replication task for each high level dataset. You won't be able to select your main pol and use the recursion option, because then you will be attempted to replicate the destination data back to the source.

 

[kirkdickinson]

You know, ripped movies (DVD's) are not very large if you use a good tool like DVDFab and take them to MP4 format, then you have file sizes under 1.5 MB per movie. I have several movies still in MKV format, I really need to change them over to MP4. But everyone will do what suites them best. I do the same thing with the kid movies (now for the grand kids) and I only have almost a dozen movies for the adults. So if you rip the movies well, then they will not be consuming all your space. It could be your video editing files that you may store on your NAS that consume more space, or more likely the snapshots that will bite you in the rear.

I am new to this media center thing and have been reading so much about it my mind is boggled. I saw tutorial on using the MKV format and it seem like a good idea. But I really don't care if the kids Barbie princess video is pristine.

I have just started ripping DVDs anyways, and only have about 10 in out of 200 done. If I find something better I have no problem doing it that way.

The one thing I'm really confused about right now is a good client. I have been experimenting with plaques and have it loaded on a MacBook Pro with some sample files and I have a Google chrome stick in my TV. This interface is not simple enough for the kids to use. I really would like to have something that works as simple as my DVR. The more I read the more confusing it is.

What are you using?

 

[kirkdickinson]

It sounds like you are going to have a single pool on each system, which is fine. I just wanted to point out that you will need to pay attention to your replication tasks. You want to create a separate high level dataset on each system and use that at the target for replication. You will then need to create a replication task for each high level dataset. You won't be able to select your main pol and use the recursion option, because then you will be attempted to replicate the destination data back to the source.

I am still learning all about this FreeNAS stuff. My box is running as a backup server only right now. My main server is still an ancient Windows XP server. I am using a Windows program called vice/versa to sync and back up.

I will need to do some more reading about replication and data sets.

Thanks

 

[solarisguy]

My recommendation is to continue creating MKV files from DVDs without recompression.

Creating a 4-5GB MKV file in the H.264/MPEG-4 AVC format from a 20-40GB Blu-Ray could sometimes be meaningful, though.

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

What are you using?

RipIt for ripping (OS X), Handbrake for transcoding/compression (default High Profile settings for video, auto-passthrough for audio), Plex for playback.

 

[kirkdickinson]

RipIt for ripping (OS X), Handbrake for transcoding/compression (default High Profile settings for video, auto-passthrough for audio), Plex for playback.

Curious, why you use two programs, RipIt and Handbrake? I have ripped some movies with handbrake and it seems to work ok.

I have tried MakeMKV on my PC and my Macbook Pro. It runs at least 3 times as fast on the PC. Of course, the cpu's are very different. MacBook is 2010 i7 2.8 with only dual cores and my PC that I built in March 2012 is still killing it.
(Intel Core i7-5930K @ 3.50GHz - Hexcore - 13652 Passmark)