Mirfster
Doesn't know what he's talking about
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2015
- Messages
- 3,215
Everyone just read "ECC vs non-ECC RAM and ZFS"; then we can all hold hands around the campfire and sing Kumbya... :P
I am in the same boat. The forum did make me understand the necessity of a properly configured hardware setup. However, at the same time the forum asserted no harm done in experimenting and getting my feet wet with an old overkill computer. I will also expand to the correct hardware in the future as my soho grows. I will execute daily backups as my safeguard - (a practice I have been faithful with for over 12 years). I also have read some articles on the ECC issue. Don't want to go there for my input as a newbie. I am, however, going to read the link in post #21. Mirfster has helped me in the last few days so I owe it to him/her to absorb the contents of the article and debate....By the time I had completed my experimentation, I had a better concept of what I wanted my actual production FreeNAS server. I know I have folks who look at my configuration and say "overkill". But, it fits what I want to do today....and next year.
Okay - help me understand. I am about ready to nix the entire server idea and return all the hardware I have ordered (NAS drives, PSU etc.). I respect this forum, HOWEVER, the fear factor that is thrown into the picture of old hardware vs proper hardware, ECC vs Non ECC, etc. is at a level of astronomical. "True it is" that one cannot believe everything one reads on the internet. Nonetheless, there are tons of articles on building a server with old hardware and then installing FreeNAS. Then you get to the FreeNAS forum and it's like you have some kind of venereal disease if you even consider using old hardware especially non ECC RAM.
You seem to imply that there's some kind of contradiction here. When you're dealing with live data, you want a proper setup to protect that data. If you're just experimenting on features and configuration steps, it really doesn't matter what hardware you're using, because the data that you're experimenting with should not be real or live data.The forum did make me understand the necessity of a properly configured hardware setup. However, at the same time the forum asserted no harm done in experimenting and getting my feet wet with an old overkill computer.
As @Bidule0hm says, there is no problem with old hardware that meets the requirements. In fact, I'd rather have a 5+ y/o server platform than a brand new desktop platform. And there are multiple reasons for this.Nonetheless, there are tons of articles on building a server with old hardware and then installing FreeNAS. Then you get to the FreeNAS forum and it's like you have some kind of venereal disease if you even consider using old hardware especially non ECC RAM.
Unfortunately, data corruption is kind of a binary thing: either it's corrupt, or it isn't. So what's important is to minimize the risk that sources of corruption will actually corrupt your data. And these sources are many: bad memory, bad disks, bad controllers, bad network, bad hardware, EM noise, etc. Some of those are more common, and some are very rare. ZFS goes a long way to addressing some of those sources. ECC goes a long way to addressing many of the others.Of course I do not want to lose or corrupt data, BUT, where is the medium here, if any???
Two things here: first, why do you so badly want to proceed with FreeNAS? No one is forcing you to use FreeNAS. And even if you do use FreeNAS, no one is forcing you to do what we're saying. But if you do use FreeNAS, we want you to be as successful as possible. And since most people who turn to FreeNAS do so for the data protection benefits of ZFS, we want to help you not shoot yourself in the foot because you mad an uninformed decision regarding ECC or hardware. If you are informed, and you want to take that risk, more power to you.I want so badly to proceed with FreeNAS but can't visualize making it my life's ambition instead of trying to create a small office home office and support my family. I guess I might just have to go back to keeping my peer-to-peer concept in Windows 10 as the only means of sharing and accessing files.
Of course I do not want to lose or corrupt data, BUT, where is the medium here, if any???
Exactly my concern. My main fear factor is the ECC issue. If I back up bad or corrupted data as a result of RAM issues then I have wasted tons of time. The real bad part is WHEN do I actually discover that I have bad data! No one can answer that...."Easy" is one thing, reliable another. The confusion is understandable. You are going to have daily backups, which should eliminate the fear either way. Why not try it?
Let me ask another question. What are the list of options/features that I should actually be looking for on Ebay if I were searching for a very, very, very inexpensive "old server hardware setup"????
I have thoroughly read posts #25 - #28. I guess I do seem to imply a contradiction of sorts. Here is why I chose FreeNAS. A few weeks ago upon initially going to www.freenas.org here is what greeted me on the home page (as well as everyone else that visits) - What is FreeNAS? FreeNAS is an operating system that can be installed on virtually any hardware platform to share data over a network. FreeNAS is the simplest way to create a centralized and easily accessible place for your data. Use FreeNAS with ZFS to protect, store, backup, all of your data. FreeNAS is used everywhere, for the home, small business, and the enterprise.
The above is the core marketing text that has led to the majority of my confusion, misunderstanding, and interaction with this forum. Also, there is so much confidence testified to, over the internet, about FreeNAS being the most reliable NAS setup. If the above purple colored paragraph had more directly implied a reference to 'server grade hardware' then I would not have gotten off track and headed in the wrong direction of over confidence and contentedness about 'old hardware' as in PC. Instead, the paragraph 'generalizes'.
The above is the core marketing text that has led to the majority of my confusion, misunderstanding, and interaction with this forum.
Hmmm. OK, first off, I sort of got dragged into the discussion by someone asking for statistics on "number of active FreeNAS machines" world-wide, so let me first just answer that question by noting that the only real metric we have is "how many machines check in with the FreeNAS update server" since that is, by default, a daily check (which can of course be disabled or turned off, so it's just a rough guess). Those stats are available to everyone at http://update-stats.freenas.org and the executive summary is "somewhere between 50,000 and 75,000 machines".PLEASE understand that I am not bitter to this forum, or any of its very nice members, in the post that follows. Just flat out confused.
I have thoroughly read posts #25 - #28. I guess I do seem to imply a contradiction of sorts. Here is why I chose FreeNAS. A few weeks ago upon initially going to www.freenas.org here is what greeted me on the home page (as well as everyone else that visits) - What is FreeNAS? FreeNAS is an operating system that can be installed on virtually any hardware platform to share data over a network. FreeNAS is the simplest way to create a centralized and easily accessible place for your data. Use FreeNAS with ZFS to protect, store, backup, all of your data. FreeNAS is used everywhere, for the home, small business, and the enterprise.
I interpret minimum specifications as "it will work, it will run, but nobody is promising that it will work well". Or, to put it in Windows terms, that's like saying Windows (64-bit) will work with 2 GB of RAM. Yes, it will boot up.... eventually.... but it will feel like you are working in molasses. Or, for fun, watch the LowSpecGamer YouTube Channel. It's about a one gamer's quest to achieve the lowest graphics settings.These specifications will suffice to get a small FreeNAS install running reliably with moderate performance for a few users.
- Multicore 64-bit* processor (Intel strongly recommended)
- 8GB* Boot Drive (USB Flash Drive suffices)
- 8GB* RAM
- At least 1 direct attached disk (Hardware RAID strongly discouraged)
- One physical network port
... I sort of got dragged into the discussion by someone asking for statistics on "number of active FreeNAS machines" world-wide, so let me first just answer that question by noting that the only real metric we have is "how many machines check in with the FreeNAS update server" since that is, by default, a daily check (which can of course be disabled or turned off, so it's just a rough guess). Those stats are available to everyone at http://update-stats.freenas.org and the executive summary is "somewhere between 50,000 and 75,000 machines".