M.2 SSDs and X11SSH-F motherboard

[ponas]

After much toiling and waiting, I finally got all the parts for my build. But lo and behold, I think I made a super newbie mistake.
I have the Supermicro X11SSH-F motherboard and was planning on using the m.2 port to attach the FreeNAS boot SSD. I ordered the Transcend MTS600 32Gb SATA III M.2 SSD and though all would be fine. I guess that's where my newbishness comes to bite me in the ass. First of all I didn't realize that m.2 is only the connector's form factor and that I should also pay attention to the data protocol (in this case SATA III) (I didn't realize this because older SATA drives have a SATA connector and use the SATA protocol so everything is under the same name.) Looking at my motherboard and trawling the forums, it seems that the X11SSH-F board supports m.2 drives with the PCI-e 3.0 x2 protocol.

The second extremely stupid mistake was not looking at the size of the drive. The Transcend MTS600 is 22x60mm and the Supermicro X11SSH-F m.2 port is for 22x80mm SSDs meaning if I connect my MTS600 it kind of sticks out because it doesn't reach the screw to secure it to the motherboard.

My questions are the following. If the SSD is not held in place by the screw is it really bad? (I don't plan on playing the maracas with my case, so things should be moving too much). If the data protocol is different than the specification in the motherboard manual does it mean I won't be able to use my SSD at all with this system ?
If I have to buy a new SSD what are the things I really should pay attention to, in order to not repeat this mistake ? Will either of the following SSDs work? Samsung M951 or Samsung 950PRO ? would you know any other compatible SSDs ? Since I'm still not totally clear on the PCI-e protocol, M.2 form factor etc. what is the difference between PCI-e 3.0 x2 and PCI-e 3.0 x4 ?
Sorry a bunch for the super rookie questions and thanks a lot for your help.

 

[DrKK]

I thought it was only a matter of time until we got a post like this. M.2 drives on server boards are kind of a new thing, and it's quite confusing. I don't know much about it myself, and am quite perplexed at how many different types of M.2 are out there.

We'll see if someone gives you a good answer (I can't, I don't know the answer), but in any case, I am sure your post will help someone else in the future to avoid a mistake, so thank you for it.

 

[BigDave]

My questions are the following. If the SSD is not held in place by the screw is it really bad?

Bad things can happen when you go against designed fastening recommendations,
(every week there are winners and losers in the lottery, this also is a game of chance).


From Chapter 2 (installation) of the mobo manual;

M.2 Slot
The X11SSH-F/-LN4F motherboard contains one M.2 socket at J23. M.2 was formerly Next
Generation Form Factor (NGFF) and serves to replace mini PCI-E and mSATA. M.2 allows for
a greater variety of card sizes, increased functionality, and spatial efficiency
The M.2 socket on the X11SSH-F/-LN4F motherboard supports PCI-E 3.0 x2 M.2 cards in
the 22x80mm form factor.

what is the difference between PCI-e 3.0 x2 and PCI-e 3.0 x4 ?

This is simply a difference in bandwidth (x2 vs. x4) higher number is more bandwidth which is two times more in this case.

For your mobo, a PCIe 3.0 x4 card is a waste of $ as the mobo's M.2 connection only supports x2 bandwidth.
As a last note, if your intention is to use the M.2 as a boot disk, the smaller capacity 22x80mm choices
are limited from the front line vendors. Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[BigDave]

A quick Google search lead me here (NGFF 22x80)

http://www.logicsupply.com/ts64gmts800/

 

[ponas]

Bad things can happen when you go against designed fastening recommendations

Dully noted. I just though I might have been one of the few lucky lottery winners. Will have to keep on buying those tickets it'll pay off in the end ^ ^

This is simply a difference in bandwidth (x2 vs. x4) higher number is more bandwidth which is two times more in this case.

I see. Thanks for the answer. However are their inter-compatible ? Can I use a m.2 PCI-e x4 SSD in the m.2 PCI-e x2 slot and expect it to work ? (at a lower speed of of course) I understand that this is a waste of perfectly good money but as you said PCI-e x2 SSD are kinda hard to come by.

http://www.logicsupply.com/ts64gmts800/

This is still a SATA III m.2 SSD won't that be a problem to use with the X11SSH-F board ?

 

[BigDave]

Can I use a m.2 PCI-e x4 SSD in the m.2 PCI-e x2 slot and expect it to work ? (at a lower speed of of course)

Since it's a PCIe 3.0 slot, I would think it would be backward compatible, but seeking advice from
Supermicro customer support would be the way to go.

This is still a SATA III m.2 SSD won't that be a problem to use with the X11SSH-F board ?

Was just trying to show the results of finding the correct (22x80) size, not really recommending you buy that one. Sorry!

If you have already broken the seal of the Transcend MTS600...
I would just consider testing things out for the learning experience, I just would not leave it (60mm stick)
on the motherboard permanently without being screwed down.

 

[BigDave]

OK, an update after some more research. It seems there is a power issue of some kind
when running a x4 stick in some motherboard's x2 slots. From the little reading I've
done, it seems some type of adapter is needed so the x4 sticks get the proper power
feed which some or all of them don't receive enough power from the x2 slot.

My overall feeling at this point is to avoid motherboards with x2 slots
due to the non-availibility of smallish boot size capacities (under 128GB)
AND this x2 vs. x4 power conundrum.

 

[DrKK]

My advice is to entirely avoid the Skylake platform.

It brings almost nothing to the table, at all, except problems. If I'm building a FreeNAS today, it will be 1150-socket based, and X10 motherboard based. Period.

 

[religiouslyconfused]

Apparently, the X11SSH-F only supports PCIe M.2 and not SATAIII M.2 SSD drives. Only Skylake server board that supports SATAIII SSD is AsRock E3C236D4U and E3C236D2i in place of SATA0.

 

[Ericloewe]

Let's address some questions:

• M.2 slots can do SATA3, PCI-e (up to x4) or both. Even more stuff, like USB, but that's uncommon.
• The interface (SATA or PCI-e) does not map to the protocol used by the drive (AHCI or NVMe). PCI-e drives can be either NVMe or AHCI, but SATA drives are AHCI only. All modern OSes and BIOSes should have no problem handling either protocol.
• PCI-e M.2 drives and slots can be mixed and matched (that is, you don't need to match the number of lanes and/or PCI-e revision), like a regular PCI-e card.
• The X11SSH-F/-LN4F only provides PCI-e, not SATA.
• SSDs use only one interface, exclusively (as far as I've seen, anyway). A hybrid SATA/PCI-e SSD controller would be a niche product.

 

[ponas]

Thanks a lot everyone for all your answers! I just got off the phone with Supermicro's technical service and they confirmed what some of you already said. Namely, a m.2 PCI-e x4 drive would work fine if plugged into the X11SSH-F's PCI-e x2 port but would be functioning at x2 speeds.

It seems there is a power issue of some kind
when running a x4 stick in some motherboard's x2 slots.

The Supermicro technical support person didn't seem to think there would be any power issues with this board. Only a speed decrease.

The interface (SATA or PCI-e) does not map to the protocol used by the drive (AHCI or NVMe). PCI-e drives can be either NVMe or AHCI, but SATA drives are AHCI only. All modern OSes and BIOSes should have no problem handling either protocol.

Indeed. and as is confirmed on Supermicro's website the X11SSH-F board supports NVMe.

Now for the final question, would anybody have some recommendation for not-too-expensive 22mm x 80mm m.2 PCI-e x4 SSDs other than the Samsung M951 and 950 Pro ?

thanks again for all your answers they have been really helpful.

 

[BigDave]

Now for the final question, would anybody have some recommendation for not-too-expensive 22mm x 80mm m.2 PCI-e x4 SSDs other than the Samsung M951 and 950 Pro ?

I was only able to find these two units which are 64Gb in size.

ADATA AXNS381-64GM-B


Super Talent NGFF DX1

 

[MargusL]

I was only able to find these two units which are 64Gb in size.

ADATA AXNS381-64GM-B


Super Talent NGFF DX1

Both are SATA drives so they are not working with X11SSH-F. I tried Samsung 950Pro on my X11SSH-F and it's working. PCIe 3.0 x2 bandwitch is 1.95 GB/s so actually you will not lose much speed anyway.

 

[Loumeer]

Sorry to bring up this old thread but I have a related question.

If the m.2 drives can only run at a max of 1.95 GB/s is there a benefit to running these over an SSD using SATA?

 

[ALFA]

Sorry to bring up this old thread but I have a related question.

If the m.2 drives can only run at a max of 1.95 GB/s is there a benefit to running these over an SSD using SATA?

Remember those things are supposed to run in NVMe mode

 

[Rand]

I havent seen a SATA SSD reaching 2GB/s... usually u r limited to around 500 MB/s, so there is a major speed increase.

 

[MisterIce]

Thought I'd post my findings...

I've got an Intel 600p M.2 PCI-E Gen 3.0 x4 working on the X11SSH-F motherboard.

Needed no extra drivers or whatever, FreeNAS recognized without any problems.

One thing though ... Your bios won't see the drive unless there's an UEFI supported OS installed on it, so don't worry if you can't find it in there.

 

[Stux]

Sorry to bring up this old thread but I have a related question.

If the m.2 drives can only run at a max of 1.95 GB/s is there a benefit to running these over an SSD using SATA?

A PCIe3 x4 slot is good for about 3.95GB/s. This is just a tad faster than SATA3's 550MB/s.

The current generation of NVMe SSDs (SM960 etc) are hitting this bottleneck. The next evolution is going to be 8x AICs.

 

[MisterIce]

A PCIe3 x4 slot is good for about 3.95GB/s. This is just a tad faster than SATA3's 550MB/s.

The current generation of NVMe SSDs (SM960 etc) are hitting this bottleneck. The next evolution is going to be 8x AICs.

"Just a tad faster ... " lol

 

[Stux]

I also have my eye on PCI3 x16 AICs which support 4x 4x M2. They exist for PCIe2 (circa 8GB/s), but as soon as they exist for PCIe3 (requires expensive PCIe switches unless your mobo has PCIe bifurcation support), then it should be possible to build a 2-8TB stripe which does about 15GB/s, using just one PCIe x16 slot.