Looking for improvements on new build

[Mirfster]

Mirfster you're talking about your dell servers? I was considering those but do they make a 24 bay version? Or just buy 2 12's? Maybe even a smaller 2.5" version?

Yeah, I am talking about my Dell PowerEdge C2100/FS12-TY Servers. They are of the older class but as long as you don't go above version 1.7 of the BMC Firmware they are quiet (I mean super quiet...). There are of course Pros and Cons to using this platform, but I have been super pleased with them and what I have put them through.

As far as the version that does accommodate 24 x 2.5" drives, be careful when purchasing one (if you can find it). I bought two of these units for a steal on EBay @ $200.00/each (pretty much where I get all my stuff; since I don't mind working on something considered "used" when I burn it in properly). Anyways, they did not include the actual 2.5" trays. Now, when trying to purchase just the hard drive trays I was looking at ~$26.00/each. So for 50 (cuz I wanted to have 2 extra) that would have been $1,300.00 alone...

Long story short, I waited and searched (a lot) and finally found a person who sold me 50 of them for something like $14.00/each. So, I happily paid an extra $700.00 just for empty trays (almost twice what I paid for the Servers)... Now, these Servers are waiting until 2.5" price drives drop before I even think about populating them...

Edit: Here is the thread on the 2.5" trays saga: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/2-5-inch-drives.40162/

 

[theEmbark]

Thanks for the heads up! That does not sound fun! They are a little out of my range anyways looks like right now about $400 for just the empty chassis.

I'm still considering that supermicro chassis. Looks like people have been happy with them after switching the PSU for the PWS-501P-1R. I just need to make sure it's supported for the 2u systems too. Turns out they are rare on eBay but I found them new all over the place.

Reading more the fans partially are so high powered because they are also cooling the CPUs. If I get a couple h60s for the CPUs I should be able to find a high speed fan that will still cool the drives and motherboard.

It's going to be a bit of a gamble but to make my price range work it's either this or a full tower case. Everyone still think the rack is going to be the better option?

Thanks again,
Kevin

 

[Dice]

Everyone still think the rack is going to be the better option?

At the end of the day, I believe it is a question of how many drives you'll be looking at installing.
If choosing for example a tower that can handle, say typically 7 drives, you are stuck with a 1vdev pool.
Even if getting a "huuuuge tower" - rarely more than 10-12 bays for hdds, you'll still be stuck with 1vdev.

Since expansion will be in multiples of your chosen raidz width, things escalate pretty quickly.
- Never more than 1 vdev, no future expansion with this box and or hardware - go for a tower.
- probably would want to add a second vdev for expansion ....things change....

Cheers /

 

[theEmbark]

Hey dice,

Thanks for the input. I plan on expanding up to 24 drives over the next 12 months. Probably 8 bays at a time.

The tower plan was to get a cooler master storm trooper. This unit has 9x5.25" bays. Then adding these backplanes 1 by 1 (I know I've linked them a million times but to save you the search)http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009I87Q2U/?tag=ozlp-20

So this way could actually provide more storage than even a 24bay rack. As it has 8x3.5" drives which you can get 2x2.5" drives in. So that's 16 plus up to 54 additional drives by purchasing inserts and replacing the 5.25" bays.

So arguably a tower could actually allow me more expansion. Not sure I need 50+ drives but it could hold them.

So I'm in a pickle.. :/. However I'm considering the tower again as I can definitely control the sound aspect and even the cooling aspect.

The problem at the end of the day for me is that rackmount are generally built for commercial purposes and not for home offices. So I would imagine that comparing apples to apples supermicros chassis aren't "that" loud.

But for a home studio 28db idle (I read that somewhere). Is way to loud. Especially considering the chassis really isn't created to dampen any of that noise.

 

[Dice]

Reconsidering the noise concerns, you'll probably stay away from larger SM chassis.

The linked 2.5inch thingies are neat. 2.5?" Did I miss something on a future all-in SSD plan?

 

[theEmbark]

Reconsidering the noise concerns, you'll probably stay away from larger SM chassis.

The linked 2.5inch thingies are neat. 2.5?" Did I miss something on a future all-in SSD plan?

Yeah I thought they were an interesting solution. There's a bunch of them out there different makes/models etc.

And no plans of a all-in ssd. It'd be nice but unless I upgraded to 10gbe I don't think I'd really reap the benefits.

They make a 4 in 1 2.5" backplane that allows up to 15mm the 6 in 1 only allows 9.5mm which is exactly the size of a WD Scorpio black. Figure I'll order one off Amazon and test it with 6 scorpios if they are to snug I'll go to the 4 in 1

 

[Dice]

I'd be suuuuper skeptical to the cooling capacity of using those to cool HDD's......
a tiiiiiny 40mm fan? ://
it is <a lot> of heat to be dissipated from those drives.

If it'd be me, AND not caring about maximizing speed, I'd consider them for SSD's. No day of the week, I'd trust them with HDDs.

 

[theEmbark]

Hmmmm I did have that worry honestly too. I wonder if I can find another type of caddy with better cooling. I don't think it will be hot swappable but I could survive without that.

 

[Dice]

I wonder if I can find another type of caddy with better cooling.

the 4in3 module for the cooler master stacker provides great cooling and silent (fan) operation.
I've used a bunch of them a decade ago.
If u'd be living next door, I'd give a couple of them to you.

 

[theEmbark]

I had seen these - http://www.moddiy.com/products/5%2d...closure.html?gclid=CMnJj5zF68wCFZE0aQodhn0NTg

Looked decent just would have to buy a fan for each one.

Would I be pushing my luck to adapt each port to 2x2.5"
http://www.newegg.com/SSD-HDD-Accessories/SubCategory/ID-43

 

[Mirfster]

But for a home studio 28db idle (I read that somewhere). Is way to loud

Nah, 28db is not a reality IMHO. When I said my stuff is super quiet I am talking that the entire 42U Rack (not including the UPS) with Servers, PSU, Switch is just ~60db. Which is akin to a "Normal Conversation" (not loud talking). 28db is supposedly less than a whisper (which is ~40db).

 

[Mirfster]

They are a little out of my range anyways looks like right now about $400 for just the empty chassis.

Dang that is high. Just a empty chassis should run you ~200 (if you include the 3.5" trays):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerE...854830?hash=item3a9475daae:g:sxsAAOSwnDZT0rUy

From there you need the CPU(s), RAM, Drives and HBA.

This one is pretty much "Turn Key" for $415.00 (Just flash the HBA to IT Mode and add your drives):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-FS12-T...700629?hash=item1eaba474d5:g:9QEAAOSwJMhXEQaN

Oh, one other thing if you do go this route make sure they include the screws for the trays that attach the drives. They are kinda "specialized" and not just any will do. I usually just use two (instead of four) in a diagonal pattern to save on them.

 

[theEmbark]

60db for a 42u rack isn't bad at all. I guess the real question is how loud is just the 2u chassis. Going to see if I can find that statistic somewhere.

The problem is that the area where I store my equipment is in ear shot of the actual live space so it can easily be picked up in a microphone. Ideally I would separate the 2 spaces but I just don't have the space to do so. I may be able to deflect/absorb/diffuse the sound of chassis away from the mics editor lot creating an isolation cabinet for it may also be an option.

I'm going to see if I can hook up my 8 bay chassis and measure the volume with a do meter. That will give me a better idea overall.

 

[Dice]

creating an isolation cabinet for it may also be an option.

This is exactly what I'll be doing in the next days.
I've a 36bay SM monster incoming which will not be acceptable in terms of noise for more than 10 seconds.
I'm dead scared I've overestimated the capacity of my sound dampening efforts, and utterly wasted a boat load of precious cash.

Atm I've a DIY MDF wooden box, where "stacks" of drives are suspended in rubber. It is really far beyond any of my initial expectations in regards to sound level. Have you considered building something from scratch? That'll solve numerous problems for you. (but perhaps create others).

Cheers /

 

[theEmbark]

I'm actually in audio engineering so I've built quite a few iso boxes specifically for guitar cabs.

I generally go plywood over MDF it's stronger, easier to cut, and mdf chips easy

I'm going to put together some prints for myself and see what the cost will be.

You'll need some combination of the following:
Plywood
2x4s (2x3s would work too)
Acoustic caulk
Roxul insulation (don't buy the "acoustic foam") roxul or Owens Corning is what we use in studios.
Some kind of breathable fabric. I like to use burlap but you need to make sure it's flame retardant or that you treat it.
Computer fans will work for the ventalation.
Rack rails


My guess is for $100-125 you can build a decent box. The biggest cost is lumber.

 

[Dice]

I'm a lot more comfortable with MDF than plywood, by experience.
The real challenge is not so much to create a resonance free environment, but to create an efficient air flow through and yet maintain enough area to cancel out sound from escaping.
I'll be building a "maze" on both intake and exhaust from the box.
And oh so ever important - find means and ways to make sure the cabinet is not connected to the computer in ways that could multiply vibrations.
The way I'll be solving that is to basically build a "hat" to put ontop/cover the fileserver. That way the fileserver chassi can be isolated from the rest of case.

Cheers /

 

[theEmbark]

I may go back to considering the internal bays. Check out the temps on this guys HDD array https://www.amazon.com/Anyone-regul...xUW4YKOLQIGF0&newContentNum=1#Mx20ARMB54CO3GD

Seems like that little fan might be more powerful than I thought

MDF should work but just keep in mind cabinets from kitchens to speakers and everything in between use plywood for strength. So just be careful if you are moving the unit or putting a lot of weight inside. If you are using studs to support them honestly they're taking the weight.

 

[Dice]

Real world number what?
ambient temperature? Time for the numbers to stabilize (takes a while to heat up a case/environment due to the mere mass of the units)? Load of the drives? Is this idle? What's it like after a couple of hours of intense IO? - aka scrubs?
Still not even close to convinced these little fellas does the job, within reasonable sound limits.

MDF should work but just keep in mind cabinets from kitchens to speakers and everything in between use plywood for strength

Over here, MDF and fiber boards are a lot more used in both those occasions. I've built boatloads of speaker applications using MDF. I don't doubt birch plywood is far stronger, but - MDF, even as little as 10-16mm would definitily carry through my project without any issue.

Maybe you've already heard this, but I'd put it out once again:
I'd say u'd be far better off in any and every direction to stay away from 2.5" drives, and staying away from small (<120mm) fans.
The latter is key to controlling noise.

 

[theEmbark]

Thanks dice,

Way to bring me back to reality haha. Yeah I'm not convinced it will work so I don't want to invest a bunch into it to find out.

What's your reasoning to stay away from 2.5" drives? Honestly I used to hear this all the time. But it seems like the failure ratings are right up there with 3.5s now. Yes you get less storage for more money. But other than that any down sides?

Either way I'm leaning towards the rack still at this point. The power edge ones in particular. Starting with one and then adding a 2nd so I can expand to 24 drives.

I'm going to draw up some blue prints for a cabinet but will probably buy it and just try it in the room first before starting another project.

I suspect the cabinet will be rather large depending on the construction process I choice for sound dampening.

 

[theEmbark]

@Dice If you haven't seen these plans they are worth checking out. http://tombuildsstuff.blogspot.com/2014/02/diy-rack-server-plans.html?m=1

You'd have to modify it a bit for ventalation and additional noise suppression but it's a solid rack.