Home Server Questions

[racielrod]

Hello,

I was not sure about posting this here, but since FreeNAS is the top option on my list, I decided to give it a go.
I'm just getting started with my homelab. I'm moving from a wifi router to wiring my house with Cat6, proper router/firewall, switch, patch panel, poe cameras, etc.
I want to move from 3-4 external hdds and the "honey where the heck did we store our last trip's pictures" model to a NAS.

These are my use cases:

• NAS
• Virtualization: BlueIris or Zoneminder for IP cameras, home-assistant for home automation (this is running on a PI at the moment, and can stay there if needed), 1 linux vm for learning/testing new things.
• Plex or Kodi: This is not a current requirement, but I see myself going that route in the near future.

I have an old desktop collecting dust and I thought it would be a great fit for FreeNAS

• Intel Desktop Board DH67BL
• Intel Core i3-2100
• 16 GB RAM
• 3 - 3 TB WD Reds (Not part of the original desktop but I have these)

Off course that was before I read about ECC requirements for FreeNAS. I know I would be able to run on that hardware, I just don't like the idea of potentially losing my data.

These are some additional constrains:

• Low noise: I don't have a basement, anything I build/use have to be quiet. My network equipment is all fanless for this reason.
• Low power: Not high in the list but nice to have.

So I find myself in a position trying to decide between these 2 options:

1. Buy a Synology/QNAP type of appliance and then use the old PC for my virtualization needs.
2. Build a new server-grade small FreeNAS and use it for both NAS and Virtualization.

I would really appreciate any advise/recommendation you might have.

Thanks,
R. Rod.

 

[garm]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Most people here will probably recommend some kind of server grade setup. While repurposed desktop hardware might run FreeNAS just fine, the reliability and risk to data over time most probably going to give you a higher TCO and possibly loss of data.

For entry level home use a prebuilt server is actually a pretty good choice.

If you know what you are doing, building your own is of course an option as well.

In any case, read the hardware requirements/recommendation over and over again. Then when you have settled on the hardware read the manual cover to cover.

You mention 3x3 TB drives, that would mean RAIDZ1 which isn’t recommend for today’s large drives.

On the forum you will find a lot of reading on how to set up your server in a reliable manner. Read those while you are at it as well.

FreeNAS isn’t a fire and forget kind of appliance You need to set up tests, monitoring and notifications. Plan for different scenarios and run “drills” to know what to do when ZFS finds a broken component (hdd most likely, if you followed all the advice).

Do it all “right” and you will be able to store those vacation movies to retirement.

 

[Chris Moore]

Hello,

I was not sure about posting this here, but since FreeNAS is the top option on my list, I decided to give it a go.
I'm just getting started with my homelab. I'm moving from a wifi router to wiring my house with Cat6, proper router/firewall, switch, patch panel, poe cameras, etc.
I want to move from 3-4 external hdds and the "honey where the heck did we store our last trip's pictures" model to a NAS.

These are my use cases:

• NAS
• Virtualization: BlueIris or Zoneminder for IP cameras, home-assistant for home automation (this is running on a PI at the moment, and can stay there if needed), 1 linux vm for learning/testing new things.
• Plex or Kodi: This is not a current requirement, but I see myself going that route in the near future.

I have an old desktop collecting dust and I thought it would be a great fit for FreeNAS

• Intel Desktop Board DH67BL
• Intel Core i3-2100
• 16 GB RAM
• 3 - 3 TB WD Reds (Not part of the original desktop but I have these)

Off course that was before I read about ECC requirements for FreeNAS. I know I would be able to run on that hardware, I just don't like the idea of potentially losing my data.

These are some additional constrains:

• Low noise: I don't have a basement, anything I build/use have to be quiet. My network equipment is all fanless for this reason.
• Low power: Not high in the list but nice to have.

So I find myself in a position trying to decide between these 2 options:

1. Buy a Synology/QNAP type of appliance and then use the old PC for my virtualization needs.
2. Build a new server-grade small FreeNAS and use it for both NAS and Virtualization.

I would really appreciate any advise/recommendation you might have.

Thanks,
R. Rod.

Small does not have to be part of the puzzle. If you want quiet, big fans and plenty of radiation space is better.
If you go pre-built, QNAP is a far better choice than Synology.
FreeNAS takes more resources due to the overhead involved in the checksum and parity information calculated by the OS. It uses more space on disk and needs more processing and memory, especially if you want to have extra resources to do virtualization.
You can get started with the old hardware as a learning experience while you collect the money or hardware to build a proper, reliable system.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

 

[Maelos]

I'd take a look around this forum at what some of the other people are building. There are many builds, like mine linked/described in my signature, that have similar goals. As Chris mentioned, combining a small form factor may limit your noise reduction. Larger fans can spin at lower RPM which generally means less noise. This is why a server chassis fan spinning at 7000 RPM is much louder, and designed to be so due to its requirements/constraints, than a consumer grade CPU or chassis fan. There are ways to modify and circumvent this, but its all a matter of the time, effort, and $ you are willing to put into this project or purchase. So here are some questions for you to help guide the requirements:

• What is low noise? Do you have an example device that you would like it to be no louder than? Where is this going to be situated? Based on the fact that the rest of your devices are fanless, this could be the biggest concern of your build. Are there times that it can create noise? If so, how much? Are there times when it cannot make noise, if so, what is the max level?
  
• Low power - How often is this going to be used? What are you willing to give up in performance for this?
• VMs - how many do you plan to run at any given time, think about this in terms of future uses also. This will be heavily correlated with the answer above.
• 16 GB of RAM for FreeNAS + VMs is going to be tight, as may the CPU and board. As mentioned, server grade equipment is designed for server grade tasks.
• Cost - probably the big one here. If you can give us a ballpark we can guide you in the right direction.

Example - I wanted to make an all in one server to firstly act as storage/backup of important files for myself and eventually friends and family. Secondly, I would like to use it as a hypervisor (though using ESXi which brings more fun into the fold), to be able to learn various other technologies. Unlike you though, I am not as worried about power and noise as I have a closet with a server rack which is fairly well removed from the common social/sleep spaces. My suggestion would be to do as Chris and others have suggested to me. Read, learn, and research some more. While doing so take a peak on eBay for used server parts that are coming on sale as newer, more expensive equipment is being put in its place in the enterprise world. You will get a great bang for the buck and be able to learn a bit too. The challenge will be in modifying the enterprise g

 

[racielrod]

Guys,

Thank you all for the answers and the great feedback. It took me a little while to get back but I'm really motivated to learn more and get to the right build.
I think I have decided to pass on re-using the old desktop, while it might work initially I don't it is going to work in the long run, I will find ways to repurpose it.

I will try to answer some of the questions as good as I can:

Q: What is low noise? Do you have an example device that you would like it to be no louder than? Where is this going to be situated? Based on the fact that the rest of your devices are fanless, this could be the biggest concern of your build. Are there times that it can create noise? If so, how much? Are there times when it cannot make noise, if so, what is the max level?
A: I don't have a exact reference in terms of decibels, but I think anything louder than a regular desktop pc might be a problem. I'm willing to go the mod route and make it work. Unfortunately I don't have a basement or a room that is too far from living areas. This will have to go to the closet with the rest of the network equipment (too close to some bedrooms) or in my office/guest bedroom (a potential problem when we have guests).

Q: Low power - How often is this going to be used? What are you willing to give up in performance for this?
A: Low power would be a nice to have, but if I'm thinking on a NAS + Hypervisor then I don't think I can afford compromising on performance for the sake of low power.

Q: VMs - how many do you plan to run at any given time, think about this in terms of future uses also. This will be heavily correlated with the answer above.
A: The only real need I have for VMs at the moment is one to control my IP cameras, which I can actually remove by buying an NVR or similar. So I have options but I was looking to have a single server that was able to handle all my needs.

Q: Cost - probably the big one here. If you can give us a ballpark we can guide you in the right direction.
A: I think I will comfortable if I spend no more than $500 total (this budget doesn't include HHDs).

I have been reading and it looks like I can go either:

• FreeNAS + VMs or Jails controller by FreeNAS
• ESXi or XenServer with virtualized FreeNAS + any other VM I need.

The first alternative looks easier for me, but I would like to hear your opinions.

In terms of hardware I thought that my only options were

• Rack units: Affordable but loud and very power demanding
• Build my own: Expensive, based on the builds examples I have seen on the forum.

By researching a little bit more I found another options: Entry level servers like Dell T20, T30, T130 or HP ML10 G9... which looks to be very popular on the forum. Some of those are limited to 4 hdd bays only but some people are even moving the board to bigger cases when they need to add more drives. For me 4 would be a good number to start.
I'm even considering a Dell T410 which is bigger and probably louder, but there might be mods I can do to reduce noise.

At this point I'm probably all over the place, so I'm going to take my time to narrow my options down while learning a little bit more about the pros and cons of each alternative and potential hardware decision.

Thanks again for the great support and feedback I received here.

R. Rod.

 

[Chris Moore]

I think I will comfortable if I spend no more than $500 total

That is pretty tight for a NAS, but you can get some quality used gear for that price or even certain 'entry level' new servers. Would you want something new or would you be willing to pick parts from eBay and assemble it yourself?

I have been reading and it looks like I can go either:

• FreeNAS + VMs or Jails controller by FreeNAS
• ESXi or XenServer with virtualized FreeNAS + any other VM I need.

The first alternative looks easier for me, but I would like to hear your opinions.

The choice here depends greatly on how into virtual machines you want to get. We have had several people recently (probably close to a dozen) that have been looking at building an AIO (all in one) with ESXi for virtualization and FreeNAS for storage, but if you only want one or two lightweight virtual (ish) machines, FreeNAS can do that with a lower hardware requirement than building an ESXi server and virtualizing FreeNAS inside it. Do you have an estimate of how much storage you will need? How about in three years, how much will your storage needs grow? Personally, I chose the path of buying parts and building it, but there are some deals to be had on eBay and it doesn't have to be a rack mounted server. There have been a couple of people recently that used Dell T7500 workstations to build their FreeNAS. Those systems were originally built as very high end 'desktop' systems and came with Xeon CPU and often times ECC memory too. They can be configured with dual processors (up to dual 6 core @ 3.46GHz) and, in dual CPU configuration, the maximum RAM is 192GB using Registered ECC. Here is an example system that is just about $355.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Preci...Hz-X5680-24GB-RAM-250GB-HDD-Win7/302596249170
An older system like this will use more electricity because the technology was not as efficient, but it will give you plenty of resources for virtualization.
You can go with something newer and more power efficient that has less resources.
This modern HP tower server has a low power Pentium dual core CPU and would be a great starter system at only $266 but you would need to upgrade the RAM to a minimum of 8GB:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5173247&Sku=13888996
The same seller also has a more robust system that uses a Xeon quad core CPU that would be fine for running a Plex media server Jail on top of FreeNAS. The system starts at $450 and would still need that memory upgrade:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2155922&Sku=13996413
Any of those will be quiet but you will need to add a few components to each to make them complete.

In terms of hardware I thought that my only options were

• Rack units: Affordable but loud and very power demanding
• Build my own: Expensive, based on the builds examples I have seen on the forum.

Did you want to look at assembling parts? It can be more expensive, but a decent system can still be had, in your price range, as long as your willing to look at surplus gear from a vendor like eBay.
If you have questions, please ask. There are plenty of forum users that would be happy to help with advice.

 

[racielrod]

Did you want to look at assembling parts? It can be more expensive, but a decent system can still be had, in your price range, as long as your willing to look at surplus gear from a vendor like eBay.
If you have questions, please ask. There are plenty of forum users that would be happy to help with advice.

Yes, I'm open to assembling parts. I have build several computers but never servers.

 

[Chris Moore]

Yes, I'm open to assembling parts. I have build several computers but never servers.

When you say $500, is that for a complete build, even down to the case to put it in?

 

[racielrod]

When you say $500, is that for a complete build, even down to the case to put it in?

Excluding drives (I have 3 x 3TB WD Reds and I will be getting probably 1 or 2 more).
I can stretch a little more for a case, that was just a reference number.

 

[Chris Moore]

This has a lot of similarity to what I am using, because it is economical, not because it is the only answer.
I put this in code blocks to try and keep the formatting...

Code:

Case

$100.   I like these because they hold 8 drives easily and they are quiet.  It might push the budget a little.
   Fractal Design Define R5
   https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fractal-Design-Define-R5-Titanium-Silent-ATX-Midtower-Case-FD-CA-DEF-R5-TI/253325917017

Motherboard

$75.   This is the same model system board I use.  It is a bit older, but it gets the job done and the price is right.
   Super Micro X9SCM-F Motherboard w/ Heatsink/Fan & I/O Shield
   https://www.ebay.com/itm/TESTED-Super-Micro-X9SCM-F-Motherboard-w-Heatsink-Fan-I-O-Shield/273068418482

CPU - 2 options

$127.   Intel Xeon E3-1270 V2 - 3.5 GHz Quad-Core (newer, less heat)
   https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-E3-1270V2-SR0P6-3-5-GHz-Quad-Core-8MB-CPU-LGA1155-Processor/112838751388
or
$45.   Intel Xeon E3-1220 (v1) 3.1 GHz Quad-Core (older, more heat, but not bad)
   https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-E3-1220-3-10GHZ-8MB-5GT-s-LGA-1155-Quad-Core-CPU-SR00F/282847846988

Drive Controller

$57   Dell H310 6Gbps SAS HBA LSI 9211-8i P20 IT Mode ZFS FreeNAS
   https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-H310-6Gbps-SAS-HBA-LSI-9211-8i-P20-IT-Mode-ZFS-FreeNAS-unRAID-High-Air-Flow/162834671120
  
Drive Data Cables

$13   Lot of 2 Mini SAS to 4-SATA SFF-8087 Multi-Lane Forward Breakout Internal Cable
   https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-Mini-SAS-to-4-SATA-SFF-8087-Multi-Lane-Forward-Breakout-Internal-Cable/371681252206

I saved the most expensive item for last...

RAM

$62 ea.   8GB DDR3-1600 ECC UDIMM PC3-12800
   https://www.ebay.com/itm/Axiom-A2Z50AA-AX-8GB-DDR3-1600-ECC-UDIMM-PC3-12800-HPE-Server-Workstation/112838421726

You would need a minimum of one stick of memory, but if you can afford to, I would suggest getting 4.
$246 would give you 32GB of memory, which isn't bad right now.  Memory is unusually high.
I know it is a lot, but ZFS uses RAM for cache and the more you have, the more you can do.

That would bring the total, with the case, 3.1 GHz processor and 32GB of RAM to $536.
Or if you went with the 3.5 GHz processor and kept it at 32GB of RAM it would be $618.

You can cut some corners on that, for example a less expensive case, or you could drop the RAM back to 16GB, but it is an idea.

 

[Alecmascot]

There's lots of guys running FreeNas on HP Microservers G7. Can pick them up here for GBP100, server class hardware, ECC, 4 or 5 drives, almost silent and low power.

 

[Chris Moore]

There's lots of guys running FreeNas on HP Microservers G7. Can pick them up here for GBP100, server class hardware, ECC, 4 or 5 drives, almost silent and low power.

While that may be cheap, it doesn't actually fill the bill with regard to what the OP said he wanted to be able to do. It is barely enough to just run FreeNAS. Did you see the part where he wanted to run a Windows VM?

 

[Chris Moore]

Excluding drives (I have 3 x 3TB WD Reds and I will be getting probably 1 or 2 more).
I can stretch a little more for a case, that was just a reference number.

Sorry, I just realized that I forgot to include a power supply.
A good quality 550 watt power supply should be plenty for up to 10 drives.

 

[Alecmascot]

While that may be cheap, it doesn't actually fill the bill with regard to what the OP said he wanted to be able to do. It is barely enough to just run FreeNAS. Did you see the part where he wanted to run a Windows VM?

In the original post he says he will run virtualisation on another box :

Virtualization: BlueIris or Zoneminder for IP cameras, home-assistant for home automation (this is running on a PI at the moment, and can stay there if needed), 1 linux vm for learning/testing new things.

But it is another option for him.......

 

[Zredwire]

OP, I don’t know your technical ability but if you are technical and don’t mind putting in a little time to learn, then using ESXI is really awesome when running VM’s and can work real well for Freenas also (as long as your processor, and motherboard support PCI pass-through in ESXI). I have been using VMWare for years at work but have been using the free version at home for about a year now. I just recently decided to upgrade my ESXI server and decided to combine my Freenas server with my ESXI. It worked out really well and I am very happy. I have some of the same VM’s you mentioned (Camera server, Home Automation, Plex) but currently have 10 VM’s. I also had a pretty tight budget (not quite as tight as yours). I was able to do my upgrade for less than $1000. If you are okay with used gear then you can get a pretty powerful system for not too much. Anyway the parts I used are in my signature. Below is one based on what I did but a little more budget friendly with smaller processors and less RAM. The server comes with 8 SFF drive bays and no 3.5” drive bays. You have to add them using converters for the 5.25” bays. I listed enough below to get 6 3.5” slots. The ones in my signature give me 8 3.5” hot swap slots. So the server below would give you dual processors, dual power supplies, 64GB ECC Ram, drive bays for 8 SFF and 6 LFF drives, and dual 1GB NICs. In my home the server fans run at 25% and while not silent, it is very quiet. More than a couple feet away and I cannot hear it. Now my VM's are not real power hungry (talking processor and/or hard drive access), but my server is reporting less than 250 Watts usage.
Now this build is not for everyone but its just another option to look at to give you ideas.

HP ML350 G6 – Dual Xeon X5560, 64GB ECC RAM, Dual Power Supplies = $464
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-ML350-G6-Tower-Server-Custom-Dual-CPU-Dual-PSU-Feet-Gen6/172890481675?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=471667228491&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

EverCool Dual 5.25 in. Drive Bay to Triple 3.5 in. HDD = $24 (x2) = $48
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0032UUGF...olid=35TQKFHBQZ6PE&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Dell H310 6Gbps SAS HBA LSI 9211-8i = $60
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-H310-...High-Air-Flow/162834671120?afsrc=1&rmvSB=true

OR if you are okay flashing the card yourself (to IT firmware):

Dell H310 6Gbps SAS HBA LSI 9211-8i = $29
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-Dell-PowerEdge-PERC-H310-SAS-RAID-Controller-Card-HV52W/152914453253?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

SAS to Sata Breakout Cables = $13
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-M...nternal-Cable/371681252206?afsrc=1&rmvSB=true

Power Cables for SATA = $13 (for a set of three)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DS6B7X6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

So total if you purchase the HBA already flashed to IT: $598
You could save a little more money by going with slower processors and/or less RAM. Also can save if you get the HBA and flash it yourself.

**One thing I forgot to mention and I don’t see mentioned elsewhere in this thread is that if you are going to run ESXI VM’s off your Freenas storage you will need to get a SLOG Drive. They can be had for as little as $120 used or about $220 new.**

 

[racielrod]

Wow guys, I'm super grateful for the amount of options, guidance and support I'm receiving here.

Chris, thank you a ton for putting together that potential build and thank you Zredwire for your suggestions too.
I need to go back to the whiteboard, read a ton and make sure I'm happy with whatever decision I end up making. The good news is that it seems that there are several options out there for what I'm trying to accomplish.

Thank you again!
R. Rod.

 

[Chris Moore]

There are a lot of links under the button in my signature that you should take a look at for even more examples and guidance.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

 

[Alecmascot]

Do not forget the maxim, often voiced on these forums at time of disaster, that RAID is not a backup.
If you are storing irreplaceable data then you need a solid backup.

 

[Dbrewer254]

Don't assume that a rack grade server is loud or high noise producing. I too am just getting into VM's and FreeNAS. I bought a used Dell R610 server on Ebay for $250 shipped. It came with 1TB of storage and 24Gb of RAM. I would have to say that, except for startup, the Dell server is very quiet. I would say my desk top is louder than the server.

 

[racielrod]

Hi guys,

Unfortunately life got in the way and I could never put together this build.

Based on @Chris Moore 's current build I was putting these parts together.

Case
Fractal Design R5
$120
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fractal-De...h=item43d3d788ba:g:MfEAAOSwynRZ0Px9:rk:1:pf:0

Processor
Intel Xeon E5-2650L V2 1.7GHz 10 Core 20 Threads 25M LGA2011 CPU Processor
$80
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon...h=item2872917587:g:Fo0AAOSwyApcLenT:rk:5:pf:0

Motherboard
SuperMicro Motherboard X9SRL-F, LGA 2011/Socket R, IPMI
$169
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-X9SR...h=item468c29b63c:g:7gUAAOSwe9FcHUr4:rk:3:pf:0

Memory
2 x HYNIX HMT42GR7AFR4A-PB 16GB (1X16GB) PC3-12800R 1600MHZ DUAL RANK X4 ECC REGISTERED 1.35V DDR3 SDRAM 240-PIN RDIMM MEMORY MODULE
$90
https://www.serversupply.com/produc...8RRxxZ7wGzEeWZcFzqBL7JZjODnHeqx0aApVpEALw_wcB

I have a few questions:

1. I have 3 x 3TB WD reds. If I want to start with RAIDZ2, this would leave me at 3TB since 2 hdds will be used for parity, correct?
   1. From there, can I just add hdds to increase the amount of storage I need? The fact that I'm asking these questions is a clear indicator that I need to go back and read the documentation and learn more about ZFS, but I figured I could ask here to see if I can get 1 or 2 hdds more for the initial build.
2. For 4-5 hdds (depending on the answer to the question above) and the hardware specified above, what would be a decent PSU?
3. This board has 2 SATA 3.0 and 4 SATA 2.0 ports; given the number of hdds I'm considering, should I buy a disk controller or can I just use these ports directly?

Thanks in advance and please excuse my ignorance.

R. Rod.