Help with new NAS build? :)

[Ikoth]

Hi! I've been looking around youtube and the forum for some information about building a NAS and I really like what FreeNAS can do.

I'm looking to make myself a NAS that would serve for file sharing and backup. I use two computers daily (a tower at my place and a surface I bring to class), currently I manually save from one computer to the other through a hard drive and SyncToy, which is really getting annoying. Ideally I would like to use the NAS as some sort of Dropbox, where when I'll have saved a file on one computer, it'll be saved on the NAS and then on the other computer. I think I saw a plugin that could do that, but if you could point me in the right direction that would be great!

Also, the NAS would be used as a Plex media server, on which there would probably be around 3-4 simultaneous streams (TV shows, movies), maybe more, at a time.

I was thinking of going with those parts :
CPU : Ryzen 3 2200G, for the included cooler, the computing power to be able to do what I want from it for the years to come, and to encourage AMD over Intel, it would also have the display properties for setup (if I understood correctly!)
RAM : I was thinking of going with 16Gb-3200 memory, fast for ryzen and enough for my needs?
Storage : This is the part I am least comfortable with. I'm thinking of going with 3 4Tb WD Red drives, to have 8Tb and redundancy (is there a RAID type that would support this setup?) as well as an SSD as a boot drive and cache. Any recommendations about the SSD would be greatly appreciated as I'm unsure as to what would be good for the build or if it would be overkill. Also, if I run out of space, how hard would it be to increase the pool by putting in more hard drives?
Case : I was thinking of taking a Fractal Design Node 304, looks sleek and has space for some more drives in the future if need be.
PSU : Would you have any recommendations of good reliable power supplies that would fit well in this case? I really like the EVGA Supernova series but fear they would be too big to fit the case.

Just a warning, I'm in Canada so I only get the shortend of the hardware stick!
Thank you very much for the great help!

 

[Inxsible]

CPU : Ryzen 3 2200G, for the included cooler, the computing power to be able to do what I want from it for the years to come, and to encourage AMD over Intel, it would also have the display properties for setup (if I understood correctly!)

Intel is supported much more than AMD when it comes to FreeBSD based distros/appliances. Although there are users on this forum who do run FreeNAS on Ryzen based systems.

RAM : I was thinking of going with 16Gb-3200 memory, fast for ryzen and enough for my needs?

Should suffice for your use case.

Storage : This is the part I am least comfortable with. I'm thinking of going with 3 4Tb WD Red drives, to have 8Tb and redundancy (is there a RAID type that would support this setup?)

Yes there is. It's called RAIDZ1 -- but it's not recommended to use RAIDZ1 for drives over 2TB in size. You should go with mirrors or RAIDZ2.

as well as an SSD as a boot drive and cache. Any recommendations about the SSD would be greatly appreciated as I'm unsure as to what would be good for the build or if it would be overkill.

You do NOT need a cache. Please read more about L2ARC, ZIL and SLOG before just randomly adding a cache drive. As for boot SSD, any cheap 120GB SSD would do (Crucial MX, AData, Samsung etc.) This should not cost you more than $30-$35. You don't really need 120GB either -- but it's hard to find any SSD that is smaller than 120GB these days.

Also, if I run out of space, how hard would it be to increase the pool by putting in more hard drives?

If you use mirrors, then you can easily add 2 drives at a time and create a new vdev in the same pool. RAIDZ2 requires all your drives to be available up-front for every vdev.

Case : I was thinking of taking a Fractal Design Node 304, looks sleek and has space for some more drives in the future if need be.

Great case, but there are trade-offs.

1. It's mini-ITX -- which doesn't allow room for expansion later.
   
2. Cabling is difficult to say the least
3. Seagate Ironwolfs get really hot in the small case unless you set up fan scripts or use after market fans.
4. Your options for HBA or add-on cards are limited.

PSU :

Think about what I have said for the case and cpu and board(which you have not listed at all). Then we can come back to PSU

 

[Ikoth]

Awesome thanks for the fast and descriptive answer! I'll look into what you gave before bumping this thread again! It's greatly appreciated :)

Edit : It seems the link you gave is broken, I'll do a bit of googling, but warning you just in case :)

 

[Inxsible]

Edit : It seems the link you gave is broken, I'll do a bit of googling, but warning you just in case :)

Link fixed !

And a bonus link : http://www.freenas.org/blog/zfs-zil-and-slog-demystified/

 

[Ikoth]

Thanks!

 

[Ikoth]

Bump!

I read around the links Inxsible provided, from what I understand I'd be much better off using one more hard drive rather than a cache SSD to have RAIDZ2, as well as better off with an intel CPU and ECC memory.

After some research, it seems the xeon E3-1220 V6, Hyper 212 EVO cooler and this motherboard : https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01B96248O/?tag=pcp0f-20 . According to AsRock's website they're compatible!

According to http://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/cases/node-series/node-304-black the cooler and the PSU I wanted would fit, it would be a tight fit, but a fit nonetheless. Regarding thermals I have some spare fans, I could try to help the airflow with those if I find some space! I have experience with computer building so cable management doesn't scare me much. However I know nothing about ECC RAM, would DDR4 be needed? Is it reasonable to use DDR3 2x8Gb sticks? If so, would you have recommendations for me? I know ryzen requires a certain speed but I don't think it's the same for Xeon processors.

As for the boot drive, would a 64 USB3.0 stick do the trick? It seems a lot of people do that, I could just stick it somewhere in the case as to avoid the risk of it being unplugged and be good with it!

Thanks again! :)

 

[Inxsible]

I could try to help the airflow with those if I find some space!

Don't count on it !

However I know nothing about ECC RAM, would DDR4 be needed?

ECC RAM is the similar as regular RAM when comparing what you need. What is needed is to make sure your CPU, motherboard and RAM are all compatible. If your CPU & board both support DDR4, then DDR4 is what you must get. If they support DDR3, then you must get DDR3

Is it reasonable to use DDR3 2x8Gb sticks?

Your board supports DDR4

Supports Dual channel DDR4 2133 ECC/Non-ECC UDIMM max 32 GB

So, no ! you cannot use DDR3 sticks

As for the boot drive, would a 64 USB3.0 stick do the trick?

Too big. See if you have a 16GB stick. If not 64GB should work too.

 

[Inxsible]

I would still recommend going for a m-ATX board and case especially if you are not constrained for space. It allows for more expandability in the future.

And if you really like the look of the Node 304, then you can get a similar look in Node 804(which is m-ATX). Here are 3 cases which are about the same in size

1. Node 804
2. Thermaltake Core V21
3. Corsair Carbide

 

[Ikoth]

Thanks for the recommendation! I really like the Corsair Carbide, and it's available for a decent price in Canada, so yay. I however have two more questions :
1. is the CPU overkill or is it a good place to go and be future proof for years to come, kind of a set it and forget it deal (of course I'd still do maintenance when needed, but you get my point), seems to me it's going to be about as good as the original CPU I had thought of would have been.
And 2. is the ECC really required if I buy non ECC-ram from a reliable source, such as Corsair? There isn't much choice for me with RAM because of limited market and budget, I found this : https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIADSB6C49839 do you think it would be a good idea to take that, with the CPU and board I linked previously, and if ever I need to upgrade the NAS I could just buy a second one to populate my board's second slot?

Also a bit more of a noob question, for the first initial setup, how does it work? Because some videos I have seen just build the machine and set it up through another computer over the local internet connection, whereas the .ppt document of the link you gave me referrences going line by line with command lines, hence I'm not so sure how it'll work! A bit of clarifications would be great :)

Thanks again!

 

[Elliot Dierksen]

is the ECC really required if I buy non ECC-ram from a reliable source, such as Corsair?

ECC is the way to go. If you look through the hardware guide, it is quite specific about that. RAM from anybody can fail. Without ECC, you could easily corrupt your entire pool if you have a RAM failure.

 

[Inxsible]

I really like the Corsair Carbide, and it's available for a decent price in Canada, so yay.

If you do choose to go with one of the mATX cases, you'd need to change the board to an mATX as well. Having said that, the Carbide supports 3x3.5" and 3x2.5" drives. So even though it is the same number of drives as the Node 304, you might have to create a pool across 3.5" and 2.5" drives. As you might know, not all sizes are available in 2.5". So keep that in mind when you purchase.

1. is the CPU overkill or is it a good place to go and be future proof for years to come,

Your CPU is way too powerful for your needs. You only need it for Plex. I use a Pentium G3240 and can stream to 3 devices without issues. Now remember that you mentioned 3-4 streams --- If you are transcoding, going up a notch or two like E3-1230V6 or E3-1240V6 might help.

2. is the ECC really required if I buy non ECC-ram from a reliable source, such as Corsair?

Since you are going to spend money to buy RAM, I would say buy ECC. The cost difference is not that much between regular and ECC RAM

I found this : https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIADSB6C49839 do you think it would be a good idea to take that, with the CPU and board I linked previously,

Absolutely NOT !!
The board you listed uses UDIMMS which is unbuffered ECC RAM. The link for the Samsung RAM is for Registered ECC RAM -- they are not compatible.

Also a bit more of a noob question, for the first initial setup, how does it work? Because some videos I have seen just build the machine and set it up through another computer over the local internet connection, whereas the .ppt document of the link you gave me referrences going line by line with command lines, hence I'm not so sure how it'll work! A bit of clarifications would be great

Stop watching youtube for FreeNAS installation.

 

[Inxsible]

I don't think I ever asked you before, but are you willing to buy used components off of Ebay? You will get much better components for the price and since you are in Canada, even US based sellers will ship there without adding too much cost.

If you are willing, I can point you to some really good boards/RAM and CPU deals.

 

[Ikoth]

I'd rather have new components but if they are good sellers/good condition I don't mind too much about Ebay! If you could point me towards boards/ram and CPU that'd be really great since, has you might notice, it's what I'm struggling most with!

Thanks again!

 

[Ikoth]

I did a bit of research around, what do you think of these parts? I think the RAM is compatible, assuming I understood correctly?
CPU : https://www.amazon.ca/Intel-BX80662...e=UTF8&qid=1528136336&sr=8-1&keywords=i3+6300
Board : https://www.amazon.ca/Supermicro-Mi..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=KW2A7P3EX55BZRH5BJ9V
RAM : https://www.amazon.ca/Crucial-PC4-1...f_rd_t=40701&refRID=KW2A7P3EX55BZRH5BJ9V&th=1

 

[Inxsible]

I did a bit of research around, what do you think of these parts? I think the RAM is compatible, assuming I understood correctly?
CPU : https://www.amazon.ca/Intel-BX80662...e=UTF8&qid=1528136336&sr=8-1&keywords=i3+6300
Board : https://www.amazon.ca/Supermicro-Mi..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=KW2A7P3EX55BZRH5BJ9V
RAM : https://www.amazon.ca/Crucial-PC4-1...f_rd_t=40701&refRID=KW2A7P3EX55BZRH5BJ9V&th=1

These 3 do go together well and X11SSM-F is a highly recommended board if you want to go new.

However for your use case, an older generation X9 based board will work great as well and you might not have to spend that much coin.

Board:

• X9SCM-F -- $59.99
• X9SCL-F + E3-1230v2 CPU + 16GB RAM -- $78+ $9 shipping (you might need to win that auction. contact that seller and ask if he will end the auction if you were willing to pay him a decent amount)

CPU : Lot of choices : Note some of them are version 1 -- which will work even if the board does not have updated BIOS. and some are v2 which require BIOS 2.0 and above.

• Intel Xeon E3-1230 -- $50.15
  
• Intel Xeon E3-1270 -- $74.99 (this was one of the cheapest in 1270-- there were others for $2-$3 more)
  
• Intel Xeon E3-1220v2 -- $67.99
  
• Intel Xeon E3-1230v2 -- $89.99
• Intel Xeon E3-1240v2 -- $134.98
  
• Intel Xeon E3-1270v2 -- $126.95

RAM : This depends on how much total RAM you want to put in. If you use 4x4GB it might be cheaper, but then you use up all your DIMMs. X9SCM-F can support a max of 32GB. So you will have to play around on whether you want to max it out or not.

• Samsung ECC RAM 8GB -- $92.95 (this is new, but I am sure you can find used ones too)
• Crucial ECC RAM 2x8GB -- $119.95 (again this is new)

All in all, with this configuration you would spend $270 for the 3 components (board + 1230v2 + Crucial 2x8GB). You can buy a v1 processor to save significant amount of money. You can also upgrade to 32 GB later when you feel you need more RAM. I use 16GB RAM on my NAS and I have never felt the need for more (although, my board only supports 16GB max, so I'd have to change quite a few things)

 

[Ikoth]

Wow thanks a lot for all this help!

I like the board only + 1230v2 + Crucial 2x8Gb a lot since it'd cost 270USD (+/- 350$CAD) against 665$ with what I linked earlier

However, are you sure the ram you linked would be compatible with the board? They seem to be rated at a higher speed (1886 vs 1333/1600) and for Mac workstations? I assume that last point doesn't really matter but I'd rather be sure!

Also, is there any way I can know in advance if the bios is version 2.0? What if it isn't? Would it be better to go with a E3-1270v1 just to be sure? It seems it has PassMark scores that are pretty much toe to toe with the 1230v2 so I'm guessing performance would stay around the same?

 

[Inxsible]

However, are you sure the ram you linked would be compatible with the board? They seem to be rated at a higher speed (1886 vs 1333/1600)

You are right. I probably missed that. I think, however, that it would work, just at a lower frequency. But no worries, here's a link for the right memory

• Samsung 2x8GB -- $185.99
• Hynix 2x8GB -- $156.99

Again, these are both new. So your cost just went up a touch, but still not too bad.

Also, is there any way I can know in advance if the bios is version 2.0?

You can ask the seller before purchase.

Would it be better to go with a E3-1270v1 just to be sure? It seems it has PassMark scores that are pretty much toe to toe with the 1230v2 so I'm guessing performance would stay around the same?

Here's a comparison of E3-1270 vs E3-1230v2 : You do get PCIE 3.0 + better TDP + a bit higher memory bandwidth. Whether it is cost effective -- I'd say yes, because $75 for 1270 and $90 for 1230V2 is not a huge difference.

You can also save some money by going for a Pentium as it will be sufficient for your use case. I didn't look for any earlier because Xeons were pretty cheap as it is ($80-$90 for a v2)

 

[Redcoat]

Also a bit more of a noob question, for the first initial setup, how does it work? Because some videos I have seen just build the machine and set it up through another computer over the local internet connection, whereas the .ppt document of the link you gave me referrences going line by line with command lines, hence I'm not so sure how it'll work! A bit of clarifications would be great

Adding another reference that might help (and I support @Inxsible's "used" recommendation wholeheartedly). Look here https://www.familybrown.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=fester:intro for some descriptive info on setting up a system.

 

[Ikoth]

Thanks a lot to both of you! The Doku website seems very beginner friendly and I'll definitely follow it in parallel to the FreeNAS user guide!

I'm noticing something with the comparison page of intel's website, all the processors we have talked about for the time being (including the i3) have a max number of 2 memory channels, doesn't it mean that even if the board has 4 ram slots I can only use 2? In which case thinking of "upgradability" of the RAM would be pointless?

 

[Redcoat]

I'm noticing something with the comparison page of intel's website, all the processors we have talked about for the time being (including the i3) have a max number of 2 memory channels, doesn't it mean that even if the board has 4 ram slots I can only use 2? In which case thinking of "upgradability" of the RAM would be pointless?

Go here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-channel_memory_architecture for help on your question.