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Disk added as 'stripe' instead of replacing
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DrKK
FreeNAS Generalissimo
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Unnecessarily complicated.
There are few instances when making a 1-device vdev will make sense. Period. The people that need a 1-dev vdev, and know what they're doing, will know what they're doing, and they'll click "proceed". Anyone else will be like: "Whoa, ok, better hit the docs here, I'm clearly not understanding something".
So I say, put the warning any time someone attempts to make a 1-device vdev. It can't hurt.
"WARNING: You are attempting to create a ZFS vdev with only one device. This can be a very bad idea if you do not understand what you're doing, especially if this vdev is being added to an existing zpool (an irreversible process). Please click cancel, or proceed."
to the OP, I've learned lessons the hard way previously with unforgiving software too. Its not unrecoverable but I would suggest before you do anything else to your array you recreate a virtual setup and dry run what you need to do before you do it to your actually production system. Don't click on anything until you are 100% sure what it is going to do.
I've used Parallels and VMWare on Mac to recreate a copy of my intended server and have been playing around removing virtual disks and replacing them. I can see how you could have made a mistake like this as its not as obvious the first time you do this stuff.
Good luck resolving your issue.
I've used Parallels and VMWare on Mac to recreate a copy of my intended server and have been playing around removing virtual disks and replacing them. I can see how you could have made a mistake like this as its not as obvious the first time you do this stuff.
Good luck resolving your issue.
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The only problem is finding someone to not argue about it. I come from the mindset of make it user friendly however some folks come from the mindset of It's in the manual, read it. I agree the manual should be referenced for advanced functions/configurations however anything in the GUI which could cause a catastrophic problem (something most people would not do) should have a warning, not prevent you from doing it.
If I understood the programming language, I'd jump in and work on the GUI interface because that would be easy stuff as opposed to the behind the scenes coding of making FreeNAS just run.
@OP, glad you got things back to normal.
If I understood the programming language, I'd jump in and work on the GUI interface because that would be easy stuff as opposed to the behind the scenes coding of making FreeNAS just run.
@OP, glad you got things back to normal.
SirMaster
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To be fair also ZFS has a parameter for a dry run when creating or adding drives to pools, its "-n"
http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19120-01/open.solaris/817-2271/gazhd/index.html
http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19120-01/open.solaris/817-2271/gazhd/index.html
DrKK
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The problem with that, sir, is you are DEFINITELY ***NOT*** supposed to be adding drives at the CLI, only from the FreeNAS GUI. So that's moot.
SirMaster
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Maybe people should then if they are making mistakes using the GUI...
I don't see why not, it's running the exact same commands. You guys are always about doing things the "right way" and "the intended" so I shouldn't have to explain that ZFS was intended to be administered from the command line.
I believe the reason why these mistakes happen is because people are too unaware of what they are doing and hiding behind a GUI 24/7 is a big way which only perpetuates this problem, but I'm sure you guys understand that.
Unless there is a way to invoke the dry run parameter from the GUI, then it seems like it would be a good idea to add it from this exact situation.
I don't see why not, it's running the exact same commands. You guys are always about doing things the "right way" and "the intended" so I shouldn't have to explain that ZFS was intended to be administered from the command line.
I believe the reason why these mistakes happen is because people are too unaware of what they are doing and hiding behind a GUI 24/7 is a big way which only perpetuates this problem, but I'm sure you guys understand that.
Unless there is a way to invoke the dry run parameter from the GUI, then it seems like it would be a good idea to add it from this exact situation.
DrKK
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Disagree.
The whole purpose to running FreeNAS, instead of just running FreeBSD itself (which has the ZFS command line functionalities built right in) is precisely to take advantage of the GUI interface to handle what people think is a complex situation. If you want to say "doing it the right way is doing it from the FreeBSD command line", then OK, that's a defensible position. But, if that *IS* your position, then FreeNAS is not the droids you're looking for.
SirMaster
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OK, then I just see it as a shortcoming in the software if a problem like this happened. If you want to force people to stick to the GUI (and that could be a valid choice) then they need all the tools exposed to them so things like this don't happen.
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I think using GUI as an excuse for screw-ups is not really valid. Majority of mistakes that people do, they will do anyway regardless if they were using CLI or GUI.
It's more lack of understanding that's the issue. Let's be honest, probably 80% of the people that run into problems probably don't do that much reading and research in the first place. Why else would we see the same topics being asked over and over again despite it being discussed to death (ECC, server grade, etc)?
Hell, how many people these days even bother to read the quick start guide when they buy some product from the store?
There was even a thread here some time ago of someone destroying their pool despite there being a confirmation and a GLARING RED page warning for the operation.
There are also plenty of threads of people shooting themselves in the foot running random CLI commands off Google despite not knowing what those commands do. Some commands like rm are particularly dangerous cause they don't even bother to ask for confirmation.
People will make mistakes no matter the interface or warning if they lack a certain level of understanding. See where I'm getting at?
It's more lack of understanding that's the issue. Let's be honest, probably 80% of the people that run into problems probably don't do that much reading and research in the first place. Why else would we see the same topics being asked over and over again despite it being discussed to death (ECC, server grade, etc)?
Hell, how many people these days even bother to read the quick start guide when they buy some product from the store?
There was even a thread here some time ago of someone destroying their pool despite there being a confirmation and a GLARING RED page warning for the operation.
There are also plenty of threads of people shooting themselves in the foot running random CLI commands off Google despite not knowing what those commands do. Some commands like rm are particularly dangerous cause they don't even bother to ask for confirmation.
People will make mistakes no matter the interface or warning if they lack a certain level of understanding. See where I'm getting at?
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SirMaster,
I agree that the WebGUI does hide alot of stuff behind it. That *is* one of the drawbacks. However, it's also one of the strengths. I'd bet that 95% of FreeNAS users are flat out incapable of building a server with all of the features that they are using in the WebGUI every day. Why? Because the WebGUI has made so many decisions for you and has simplified things down to a point where many of us mere mortals wouldn't need to spend 6 months devoted to FreeBSD manuals just to be able to install FreeBSD, put a server on the domain, create a pool to admin (and actually admin it properly), and then share it out with Samba 4. That right there is a major undertaking for someone that may not have ever touched FreeBSD. Linux experience helps, but it doesn't give you the keys to the mansion.
In fact, about a year or so ago I was talking to a friend about FreeNAS (he loves zfs on linux) and some of those developers apparently feel that FreeNAS has made ZFS so accessible that it's actually depreciated the value of their product. They were wanting to be the ones to bring ZFS to "the masses" (small masses apparently) by making it possible to add ZFS to every linux machine everywhere. Instead they feel that people are moving to FreeNAS as a better, faster, easier alternative to getting a file server built quickly. I can't say I blame them. But, I do want to see ZFS on linux work because I do use linux and I do enjoy having ZFS on linux. I just wish there was a ZFS for Windows.
I agree that the WebGUI does hide alot of stuff behind it. That *is* one of the drawbacks. However, it's also one of the strengths. I'd bet that 95% of FreeNAS users are flat out incapable of building a server with all of the features that they are using in the WebGUI every day. Why? Because the WebGUI has made so many decisions for you and has simplified things down to a point where many of us mere mortals wouldn't need to spend 6 months devoted to FreeBSD manuals just to be able to install FreeBSD, put a server on the domain, create a pool to admin (and actually admin it properly), and then share it out with Samba 4. That right there is a major undertaking for someone that may not have ever touched FreeBSD. Linux experience helps, but it doesn't give you the keys to the mansion.
In fact, about a year or so ago I was talking to a friend about FreeNAS (he loves zfs on linux) and some of those developers apparently feel that FreeNAS has made ZFS so accessible that it's actually depreciated the value of their product. They were wanting to be the ones to bring ZFS to "the masses" (small masses apparently) by making it possible to add ZFS to every linux machine everywhere. Instead they feel that people are moving to FreeNAS as a better, faster, easier alternative to getting a file server built quickly. I can't say I blame them. But, I do want to see ZFS on linux work because I do use linux and I do enjoy having ZFS on linux. I just wish there was a ZFS for Windows.
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You can have ZFS on Linux? I thought that's not possible due to licensing issues. Hence, why the Debian project has Debian/kFreeBSD project.
danb35
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You certainly can: http://zfsonlinux.org/
david kennedy
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Agreed, it works well under linux. If you use something like Ubuntu (or an offshoot) you can just add the package repo and do a quick apt-get and it does all the work for you (build and load the modules).
It also protects you from kernal upgrades by rebuilding the modules as well.
Works fairly well (My desktop has a 5 disk raidz1 pool under zfsonlinux).
Only "oddity" i have noticed is by default only root can run pool commands (zfs list, zpool list, etc). I guess you can fix this with permissions but it isnt a huge deal.
SirMaster
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It's very simple for Debian, literally what you see on the web page, 3 commands.
Add ZFS source to the package manager, then update the package list, and then finally run "apt-get install debian-zfs"
This will download all the ZFS code and then compile it against all the kernels you have installed on your system (all automatically) as a DKMS kernel module since it cannot be shipped in the kernel from the start.
On Ubuntu they maintain PPAs so it's also super easy.
The only tricky part is root zpools if you really want one of those. But fortunately Linux also has BTRFS which works great for your root pool and is also really simple :)
Add ZFS source to the package manager, then update the package list, and then finally run "apt-get install debian-zfs"
This will download all the ZFS code and then compile it against all the kernels you have installed on your system (all automatically) as a DKMS kernel module since it cannot be shipped in the kernel from the start.
On Ubuntu they maintain PPAs so it's also super easy.
The only tricky part is root zpools if you really want one of those. But fortunately Linux also has BTRFS which works great for your root pool and is also really simple :)
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