Brand new UPS not working

[marcusorwen]

Hello FreeNAS community

I just bought a PowerWalker VI650 LCD UPS (650VA/360Watt Line-Interactive) and my computer draws around ~135Watt (or ~165VA).
This is my first UPS ever so im quite new to this but this should theoretically work right?

But im having problems.
The battery is fully charged and the UPS is plugged into the computer with USB (and FreeNAS sees the UPS and i can type "upsc ups@localhost" to see it's status) and the computer is plugged into the UPS.

While still on AC power the computer runs fine but as soon as i pull the plug to the UPS it just shuts down the computer instantly just like if you would pull the plug normally without a UPS, but also the UPS is giving out a constant beep and the LCD only shows a 0 (zero) on the output side nothing else.

But if i turn the UPS on battery mode only and start the computer while on battery mode it works just fine and when i plug the UPS back into the mains again it switches normally to AC power and starts charging the battery and the computer keeps on running.

It feels like the UPS is defected when switching from AC to Battery mode or it's not doing it quick enough.
But from Battery mode to AC it works just fine.

Is it defected or could it be the PSU on the computer (Im using a Corsair 650Watt PSU, CMPSU-650TXEU) or is it something else?

Im really confused

 

[Yatti420]

It feels like the UPS is defected when switching from AC to Battery mode or it's not doing it quick enough.
But from Battery mode to AC it works just fine.

You may need a pure sine wave UPS.. This is one of the reasons I bought the UPS I use now.. I didn't want compatibilty issues in the future.. I can't guarantee this however.. I've read reports of activePFC psus with non-pure sine wave or whatever.. It doesn't clamp fast egnough basically.. Not 100% on this though.. Maybe try another good working PSU thats a little older... Thats not active pfc.. You shouldn't need a 650w.. It may be that something in it is defective.. Perhaps call up the manufacturer.. Also make sure your UPS driver settings within freenas are running and the UPS service is active..

Edit: Also if your UPS is showing 0-output all the time make sure you have it plugged into the correct power port as some are battery and some are simply surge protection (on mine atleast it's like this)

 

[marcusorwen]

You may need a pure sine wave UPS.. This is one of the reasons I bought the UPS I use now.. I didn't want compatibilty issues in the future.. I can't guarantee this however.. I've read reports of activePFC psus with non-pure sine wave or whatever.. It doesn't clamp fast egnough basically.. Not 100% on this though.. Maybe try another good working PSU thats a little older... Thats not active pfc.. You shouldn't need a 650w.. It may be that something in it is defective.. Perhaps call up the manufacturer.. Also make sure your UPS driver settings within freenas are running and the UPS service is active..

Edit: Also if your UPS is showing 0-output all the time make sure you have it plugged into the correct power port as some are battery and some are simply surge protection (on mine atleast it's like this)

Thanks for the reply,
I have a older PSU that i think is passive (cannot find any specifications online on the model number though) its 550Watt but has too few sata power connectors for my drives.

it only shows 0-output when the UPS goes on battery and the server shutsdown incorrectly,
could you link your UPS so i can compare the two?

EDIT: Switched out the PSU for the 550W but that one did not work either, but i found an old 400W PSU that did work so the FreeNAS now runs perfectly with the UPS, and now if i pull the plug the FreeNAS keeps running for a minute then it starts the shutdown sequence.

All in all pretty happy, except now i cannot expand with more drive's since the PSU only has 4 sata power cables will have to buy molex to sata converters later when i plan on expanding the NAS.

 

[Yatti420]

I would say that an older non-active pfc PSU works because it doesn't use PFC.. It's probably your PSU .. You can see info on mine here.. CP850PFCLCD http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/pfc-sinewave-series/CP850PFCLCD.html

Edit: The UPS is probably just not fast egnough.. It could be the corsair PSUs however.. I saw a few threads on people using them and not having success..

http://www.powerwalker.com/FAQ.html

 

[marcusorwen]

I would say that an older non-active pfc PSU works because it doesn't use PFC.. It's probably your PSU .. You can see info on mine here.. CP850PFCLCD http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/pfc-sinewave-series/CP850PFCLCD.html

Edit: The UPS is probably just not fast egnough.. It could be the corsair PSUs however.. I saw a few threads on people using them and not having success..

http://www.powerwalker.com/FAQ.html

Will have to put more money in on my next UPS then, but for now it's working with the 400Watt passive-pfc PSU so im happy with that for now. The UPS was pretty cheap anyway and could be used later for other equipment if i get a new UPS.

But i can work with the 400Watt PSU and just buy molex to sata power connectors to expand with more drives.

Thanks for everything.

 

[Whattteva]

Wow, how many drives are you running? Your usage is pretty high. That 135 W, is that idle or under load? My server idles at barely 60 W running 4 drives and the router also plugged to the UPS.

 

[marcusorwen]

Wow, how many drives are you running? Your usage is pretty high. That 135 W, is that idle or under load? My server idles at barely 60 W running 4 drives and the router also plugged to the UPS.

Thats idle, it can go up to around ~210watt during max load.
System info:
AMD Phenom(tm) II X3 720 Processor (Black Edition 2.8GHz version)
8GB ram
3WD Red 2TB and 1 250GB
i have a DVD drive plugged in aswell.

According to tests online the Processor is quite power hungry. i will be switching to a i3 or i5 in the future to lower power consumption (intel 4th gen i3 and i5 consume 42Watt idle and 96-102Watt maxed acording to tests online).

source:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2009/05/11/overclocking-amd-s-phenom-ii-x3-720-be/10
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i3-4340-4330-4130_7.html

 

[cyberjock]

One of the problems with these new PSUs that are 80+ is that some of them cannot handle the square wave or even the "simulated" sine wave they get. If they don't get something closely resembling a real sine wave then the end up hiccuping and the machine loses power.

The bottom line, if you are looking for a PSU for your server that is 80%+ you shouldn't be looking at anything that isn't a real sine wave or actually labeled as being compatible with the high efficiency power supplies.

 

[Yatti420]

It's why I bought my cyberpower after doing a little reaserch.. Also the i5 doesn't support ECC.. If I recall correctly its pentium/i3 or xeon.. If you don't have ECC now that's another thing to consider for the long term..

 

[DaPlumber]

One of the problems with these new PSUs that are 80+ is that some of them cannot handle the square wave or even the "simulated" sine wave they get. If they don't get something closely resembling a real sine wave then the end up hiccuping and the machine loses power.

The bottom line, if you are looking for a PSU for your server that is 80%+ you shouldn't be looking at anything that isn't a real sine wave or actually labeled as being compatible with the high efficiency power supplies.

AC -> DC -> AC -> DC It's never struck me as the most efficient way. I've seen UPS's blow up switched PSU's in the DC too. THAT can get expensive in a hurry.

I've always wondered why the standard PSU manufacturers don't offer UPS as an option? i.e. A pair of Terminals on the PSU labeled "Attach 12v Sealed Lead Acid battery here." The extra parts would be pretty negligible cost-wise, it would be a nice "premium" feature, and they'd be able to be a lot more efficient when on battery by simply going DC -> DC. I'm sure sealed LED-Acid batteries that would fit into a 5.25" bay would sell too along with this. The PoS market alone could be huge. Any manufacturers reading this, credit and a few sample units would be nice... ;)

 

[cyberjock]

Actually, if you have like $25k there are a few out there. Google has their own proprietary design that does just that. The problem is that running current at 12v is efficient, but voltage drops rapidly unless you have very thick cables. Depending on the load of your system you may need excessively expensive cables to offset the voltage drop across the wire. I haven't done the math on it though. Not really worth the time since I can't afford it anyway.

 

[Whattteva]

It's why I bought my cyberpower after doing a little reaserch.. Also the i5 doesn't support ECC.. If I recall correctly its pentium/i3 or xeon.. If you don't have ECC now that's another thing to consider for the long term..

I never really did research on my UPS, but I did buy Cyberpower also cause they looked high quality enough to me and commanded a very reasonable price. I've had around 10 or so power losses so far and it never once failed to deliver stable power, so I'm very pleased with it.

 

[Ericloewe]

AC -> DC -> AC -> DC It's never struck me as the most efficient way. I've seen UPS's blow up switched PSU's in the DC too. THAT can get expensive in a hurry.

I've always wondered why the standard PSU manufacturers don't offer UPS as an option? i.e. A pair of Terminals on the PSU labeled "Attach 12v Sealed Lead Acid battery here." The extra parts would be pretty negligible cost-wise, it would be a nice "premium" feature, and they'd be able to be a lot more efficient when on battery by simply going DC -> DC. I'm sure sealed LED-Acid batteries that would fit into a 5.25" bay would sell too along with this. The PoS market alone could be huge. Any manufacturers reading this, credit and a few sample units would be nice... ;)

I occasionally have similar thoughts... They must feel there's no solid consumer UPS/PSU replacement market.

Additionally, the battery would have to be external, as a 5.25" bay provides nowhere near enough volume for the required lead-acid battery (except for relatively small capacities).

I can imagine Delta doing something like this for the "cost is not a problem" market, maybe Seasonic if they can convince a UPS manufacturer. Another possibility is someone like Corsair commissioning such a design from the above or from Flextronics.

As Cyberjock mentioned, cabling would have to be rather large to run something like 70A back to the PSU, so I'd expect this product to be available first in smaller ratings, equivalent to 500W or less PSUs.

 

[DaPlumber]

@ cyberjock, Ericlowe: Oh, yeah I know all about the "in rack", "integrated" UPS types especially in blade server designs.

I wasn't thinking of powering the system for extended periods without a large external battery, but you could certainly get enough juice out of a lead-acid the size of all of a 5.25" bay to be equal to a 500VA "desktop" UPS IMO.

For a larger system there's no reaso why you couldn't go modular with one PSU/UPS pair for every N disks or tray.

GPU's are power hogs, so that's a reason it probably hasn't occurred in the "mainstream" gaming desktop market.

Another thought: Maybe an optional SuperCap so the system can ride out a N second brownout?

 

[Ericloewe]

@ cyberjock, Ericlowe: Oh, yeah I know all about the "in rack", "integrated" UPS types especially in blade server designs.

I wasn't thinking of powering the system for extended periods without a large external battery, but you could certainly get enough juice out of a lead-acid the size of all of a 5.25" bay to be equal to a 500VA "desktop" UPS IMO.

For a larger system there's no reaso why you couldn't go modular with one PSU/UPS pair for every N disks or tray.

GPU's are power hogs, so that's a reason it probably hasn't occurred in the "mainstream" gaming desktop market.

Another thought: Maybe an optional SuperCap so the system can ride out a N second brownout?

My understanding is that supercaps are still insanely expensive and small, so the expense may not be worth it, if it enters small PSU territory.

Haven't seen many brownouts (outright power failures are way more common where I live), but I nearly didn't realize it when the last one happened. I was playing Crysis on my then new gaming desktop and only noticed when the lights wouldn't turn on. Turns out the brownout had stayed above 100ish V - a hidden advantage of active PFC and 230V AC.

 

[no_connection]

If I remember right Corsair was asked about using simulated sine wave and they said it would be fine.
I have used an APC Back-UPS which is simulated and it works fine, makes more sound than usual but have never missed a beat.
PSU is a Corsair but I can't remember the exact model.
Now, sine wave it soooo much better and it makes no sense getting anything else today as they can be bought used for cheap.
Online vs offline depends on you, I use mine in bypass (called high efficiency) as online does use more power.

There was an article here about a server house using a bunch of batteries in series getting 320V DC to the servers.
Most PSU are rectified at input so it won't matter. Not all will work of of course. Efficiency bumped up too.