Yes another newbie "Will It work,tell me what I dont know"

[E.Marquez]

Folks go easy....I build motorcycles, service fleets of motorcycles, teach others to ride, spent 28 years in the Army (decidedly NOT as a network or Sat Tech) I can run a small simple network, I can use a computer..to include power user stuff at command line level.... BUT I have never built a system from scratch, and I readily admit, having spent the last 4 days reading 10's of thousands of words here on this one forum alone...I'm way out of my comfort zone, but marginally keeping my head above water.

So I will ask questions that cause you to chuckle or cry... But link me to something that sets me straight and I wont make the same mistake (well, no more than 3-4 times anyway)

So what am I doing here and what is the need of my build?

Im here because I will never lose data again......had a lap-top hit the ground last week...hard drive failed at next boot, data recovery place says read write head failed, for just $880 we can give you a 90% chance of all data recovery ..... What a choice lose almost a TB of business, family, work pics and vid, documents ect, or pay almost $900 for a 90% chance the new read head installed will get them enough work time to image the platters. But wait, just install that back up you have been doing several times a week.....Oh you mean the one that is corrupted and won't load??? That one? NEVER AGAIN.

So that is why Im here, never again... new lap top is filled with a 2TB SSD, so that a start and being backed up daily to an external SSD while I figure out this NAS thing. I've been a NAS user for 20-25 years, military systems and civilian so I understand from that POV.... Even admin'ed a sever & network a few times, but just from the user interface side of things..
My goal is simple (by what you folks use and build FreeNAS system)

Data back up...that is the MAIN goal. It I use it as a NAS ok, but the main goal is RAIDz1 or RAIDz2

I came here looking to validate info I was given on using hardware I had or could get..It took me about 2 min of reading to realize that was trash info. and doomed for a failed build.
I've read some of the don't do this, consider that, hardware guides, terms primer article, signed up for and will listen to the video cast on FreeNA intro here in about an hour.
I know there is a ton I don't know.. if my needs could wait 6 months while I absorbed what I could and was more grounded in FreeNAS and FreeBSD basics I would, but cant. My prior data back up mistakes have cost me dearly,,,,,I need a solution now...and before its recommended...Im not interested in buying a ready made FreeNAS mini system..I learn betetr and hence can use better a system I build as it forces me to know and understand the whole bundle, from components to build to use.
So thats the who and why.
Next post will start the what

Thanks for reading...
Erik

 

[E.Marquez]

That is what I think I need to build the FreeNAS system that will serve my needs. I chose components based on what I think I learned from the hardware guide.
The smallish HD (2TB) are based on the amount of data I just lost and will likely rebuild to again...Im not storing and streaming movies. Im storing lost of pictures, and need to use any number of them on a daily basis ...but its 1-5 at a time as I work them in to a Tech article, post, or an email.

I chose the single 8MB EEC DDR ram module as I read denser is better, and it makes it easy to upgrade from the required base of 8MB as disposable cash or system needs arise.

So am I missing any components? besides some thing to boot from...I've read the use a USB drive and no no no, don't do that any more comments..so I guess I on on the track to not use that for the FreeBSD disk image used for booting..
So what then a small SSD? like SanDisk, SDSSDRC-032G-G26, 32 GB ?
Or????
Are there any components chosen not correct (IAW the hardware guide) IOW, did I mis understand a standard and choose the wrong piece of hardware?
You are welcome to say, yes, wrong item and tell me why in detail...or give me what is wrong and link me to something that I can learn myself why its wrong.. All I ask is don't leave it at just "The SDSSDRC-032G-G26 is not what you want" give me something to use instead and why..PLEASE

AND GO......

@Chris Moore you said ask.....LOL, me thinks you did not know what you got your self in for....

 

[MikeyG]

Personally I would add another drive and do RAIDZ2 to give you about 3.5TB usable storage. Otherwise you are using 2/3 of your disks for redundancy or using RAIDZ1 which is a little bit risky.

Any decent SSD over 16GB should be good for a boot drive.

 

[Bozon]

View attachment 28154
That is what I think I need to build the FreeNAS system that will serve my needs. I chose components based on what I think I learned from the hardware guide.
The smallish HD (2TB) are based on the amount of data I just lost and will likely rebuild to again...Im not storing and streaming movies. Im storing lost of pictures, and need to use any number of them on a daily basis ...but its 1-5 at a time as I work them in to a Tech article, post, or an email.

I chose the single 8MB EEC DDR ram module as I read denser is better, and it makes it easy to upgrade from the required base of 8MB as disposable cash or system needs arise.

So am I missing any components? besides some thing to boot from...I've read the use a USB drive and no no no, don't do that any more comments..so I guess I on on the track to not use that for the FreeBSD disk image used for booting..
So what then a small SSD? like SanDisk, SDSSDRC-032G-G26, 32 GB ?
Or????
Are there any components chosen not correct (IAW the hardware guide) IOW, did I mis understand a standard and choose the wrong piece of hardware?
You are welcome to say, yes, wrong item and tell me why in detail...or give me what is wrong and link me to something that I can learn myself why its wrong.. All I ask is don't leave it at just "The SDSSDRC-032G-G26 is not what you want" give me something to use instead and why..PLEASE

AND GO......

@Chris Moore you said ask.....LOL, me thinks you did not know what you got your self in for....

One quick suggestion, please add amazon or newegg links for each product above so that we can actually look at the item in detail.

 

[E.Marquez]

Personally I would add another drive and do RAIDZ2 to give you about 3.5TB usable storage. Otherwise you are using 2/3 of your disks for redundancy or using RAIDZ1 which is a little bit risky.

Any decent SSD over 16GB should be good for a boot drive.

What model memory is that? Is it ECC?

Thannks

Yes RAIDz2 is my plan now, so I'll add another HD.
And yes that ram is ECC

 

[E.Marquez]

One quick suggestion, please add amazon or newegg links for each product above so that we can actually look at the item in detail.

OK can do>

Intel Core i3-4170 Haswell Dual-Core 3.7 GHz LGA 1150 54W BX80646I34170 (Includes fan)

Supermicro Motherboard Micro ATX DDR3 1600 LGA 1150 Motherboards X10SLL-F-O

Kingston Technology ValueRAM 8GB DDR3 1600MHz PC3 12800 ECC CL11 DIMM with TS Server Workstation Memory KVR16E11/8

WD Red 2TB NAS Hard Drive - 5400 RPM Class, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64 MB Cache, 3.5" - WD20EFRX (4 of these so I can use RAIDz2)

Thermaltake Core V21 SPCC Micro ATX Cube Computer Chassis CA-1D5-00S1WN-00

SeaSonic G Series SSR-550RM 550W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply New 4th Gen CPU Certified Haswell Ready

 

[HoneyBadger]

If you want to be extra-paranoid you can select RAM from Supermicro's tested and certified list using their memory checker here:

https://www.supermicro.com/support/resources/mem.cfm

Your board is capable of running up to DDR3-1600 at either 1.35v or 1.5v so you have quite a list of options to pick from; and don't forget about the "EOL/archived" list at the bottom when you're browsing the options.

As an additional note, there is a phrase which is "RAID is not backup" - it can prevent against a mechanical failure, but not against accidental or malicious deletion, or catastrophic failure (eg: house fire.) Use the FreeNAS snapshot feature to guard against the former; and consider backing up periodically to an offsite location (a cloud backup provider, perhaps) or even having periodic copies done to a removable drive that could be easily grabbed in a bug-out situation.

 

[Bozon]

OK can do>

Intel Core i3-4170 Haswell Dual-Core 3.7 GHz LGA 1150 54W BX80646I34170 (Includes fan)

Supermicro Motherboard Micro ATX DDR3 1600 LGA 1150 Motherboards X10SLL-F-O

Kingston Technology ValueRAM 8GB DDR3 1600MHz PC3 12800 ECC CL11 DIMM with TS Server Workstation Memory KVR16E11/8

WD Red 2TB NAS Hard Drive - 5400 RPM Class, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64 MB Cache, 3.5" - WD20EFRX (4 of these so I can use RAIDz2)

Thermaltake Core V21 SPCC Micro ATX Cube Computer Chassis CA-1D5-00S1WN-00

SeaSonic G Series SSR-550RM 550W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply New 4th Gen CPU Certified Haswell Ready

Good, the Ram is ECC udimm which seems to be the most common mistake that I see.
"Specs are standard 1GX 72 ECC 1600MHz240-Pin Unbuffered DIMM"

 

[E.Marquez]

If you want to be extra-paranoid you can select RAM from Supermicro's tested and certified list using their memory checker here:

https://www.supermicro.com/support/resources/mem.cfm

Your board is capable of running up to DDR3-1600 at either 1.35v or 1.5v so you have quite a list of options to pick from; and don't forget about the "EOL/archived" list at the bottom when you're browsing the options.

As an additional note, there is a phrase which is "RAID is not backup" - it can prevent against a mechanical failure, but not against accidental or malicious deletion, or catastrophic failure (eg: house fire.) Use the FreeNAS snapshot feature to guard against the former; and consider backing up periodically to an offsite location (a cloud backup provider, perhaps) or even having periodic copies done to a removable drive that could be easily grabbed in a bug-out situation.

SO you mentioned something I did not add....

I will use the snap shot feature.
And I have both on site back on a external HD (this method failed me once and why I dont trust it as a stand alone method) and select file back up off site. This is actually a two server build,,in that after I get mine built, Im building one for my brother. We will uses each other server to back up select files.

 

[E.Marquez]

Good, the Ram is ECC udimm which seems to be the most common mistake that I see.
"Specs are standard 1GX 72 ECC 1600MHz240-Pin Unbuffered DIMM"

I tied to follow the hardware guide, if I did not, it was not because I intentionally selected something that was cheaper, easier to get, or just because I heard it was "better", ect. The hardware guide reads to me as a well thought out document, considered and validated by many, not just a listing of hardware that worked for one user...So until a well versed FreeNAS user suggest otherwise Im sticking to what is in the guide.

On that note..Boot device.

Im reading in part "Cheap, low-end SSDs from reputable brands work very well."

and
" Sizing Since FreeNAS 9.3 introduced ZFS on the boot device, install size has been slowly creeping up. 16GB is a reasonable minimum that allows for a decent amount of boot environments to fit comfortably. 32GB is not an unreasonable target "

The Mother board I chose has SATA 3 GB/S2 and SATA 6 GB/S ports, I am assuming the 4 HD can use either of those SATA ports, and then the boot storage device can use one?
Any of the 2.5 form SATA SSD's
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...72&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=36

 

[IQless]

Any of the 2.5 form SATA SSD's

You can also buy used Intel enterprise SSD's on eBay for next to nothing that would suit your need as a boot medium. Do not just search for the 32GB sized ones, you might miss out on some good deals on a 120GB for the same price. Although you most likely won't need more than let's say 32GB, it's always nice to have more :)

 

[Bozon]

You can also buy used Intel enterprise SSD's on eBay for next to nothing that would suit your need as a boot medium. Do not just search for the 32GB sized ones, you might miss out on some good deals on a 120GB for the same price. Although you most likely won't need more than let's say 32GB, it's always nice to have more :)

I bought 2 80 gig intel ssd for 30 bucks a piece on eBay. The only problem will be the limited number of sata ports available for this card, but you can get one of the great LSI SAS cards flashed to IT mode on eBay for 50 - 75 dollars. Check the resource section for the right card for your MOBO.

 

[Bozon]

OK can do>

Intel Core i3-4170 Haswell Dual-Core 3.7 GHz LGA 1150 54W BX80646I34170 (Includes fan)

Supermicro Motherboard Micro ATX DDR3 1600 LGA 1150 Motherboards X10SLL-F-O

Kingston Technology ValueRAM 8GB DDR3 1600MHz PC3 12800 ECC CL11 DIMM with TS Server Workstation Memory KVR16E11/8

WD Red 2TB NAS Hard Drive - 5400 RPM Class, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64 MB Cache, 3.5" - WD20EFRX (4 of these so I can use RAIDz2)

Thermaltake Core V21 SPCC Micro ATX Cube Computer Chassis CA-1D5-00S1WN-00

SeaSonic G Series SSR-550RM 550W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply New 4th Gen CPU Certified Haswell Ready

I hate mentioning this because I am not an expert on this, but it seems like you need more fans added to your build. The case comes with 1 fan. I would think that you would need to add a couple of good fans because of the number of hard drives. Can someone more expert than I comment on this. My gut tells me that it would be better to have 3 or 4 smaller fans for redundancy this case is set up to take a number of 120 fans in various places.

 

[Heracles]

Hi E.Marquez,

Sorry that you loss your data, but your story is not unheard of.

The system and advise others gave you here are good, mostly not to go RaidZ1 and go at least RaidZ2. The hardware is also reliable. But for the kind of complete data protection you are looking for, you need an offsite protection as well. What happen if the place burns ? A water infiltration makes it in the server ? A robbery on site ? There is no logical protection that can defeat a physical threat.

You can choose to accept the physical risks and not protect your environment more than your actual reality. But considering how a strong and clear goal you express in your first post, you may well consider the need to protect your data against that.

Here, my offsite protection is provided by a second FreeNAS I deployed at my father's place, over 400km away from my own place. I do ZFS replication over a site-to-site VPN.

You can have FreeNAS interacting with public cloud services like S3 to send an extra copy there. You can look at offline supports like tapes. There are many different options and up to you to consider which one will answer your needs the best.

In all cases, whatever your backup solution will be, I trust that you will now test it...

 

[Spearfoot]

You may want to reconsider disk size and configuration, especially if you plan on backing up your brother's files. Once they have a good working NAS system, most people discover they have a lot more data than they thought! And remember that ZFS is a copy-on-write system that needs lots of free space to work with.

If you're expecting to store ~1TB of data, I would double that estimate, then do a similar calculation for your brother's data. Add all of this up and then double the total... that's probably a more realistic estimate of the capacity you need.

I agree with other posters that RAIDZ1 is not safe and you should avoid it.

With limited SATA slots, you might find that a simple mirror of large-capacity drives works best. A mirrored pair of 10TB drives will give you ~10TB of available space. And this will leave you with one (or more?) spare SATA ports to use for a single-disk backup pool using the same size disks as those used in your mirrored pool, probably installed in an enclosure with removable drive tray.

Whatever configuration you decide to use... Good luck!

 

[CraigD]

It is good you have done some reading

Why use the X10 board?

If you do the X10SSL-F has 6 SATA ports, X10SLM-F has 8 SATA ports and the extra 2 SATA ports are huge if your case can support the drives

I use an X10 motherboard myself and love it but recommend the X11 equivalent boards, they are newer, can hold more RAM, and maybe cheaper (DDR4 RAM prices have also fallen)

Your 1 gig NIC it limited to 120 MB/s this means SATA 2 or 3 ports are fine

As @Spearfoot said above get 3-4 times the storage you think you will need 6-8 data drives is a good starting point

Remember RAIDz2 loses two disks worth of space for redundancy, has some overhead, and it is recommended you only use 80% of the space left if your using freeNAS for bulk storage

Redundancy that works it expensive, it is money well spent if it saves your irreplaceable data

Lastly read peoples signatures, this will tell you what hardware people are using that are offering you advice, it also gives you ideas

Have Fun

 

[Inxsible]

If space is not an issue and especially if you are going to put the server in a different room or a closet, consider getting a case/chassis that is bigger.

1. This helps in future expansion (in terms of number of drives or even if you want to put in a newer/bigger motherboard down the line).
2. It also helps in having more cooling in bigger cases --- whether active or passive thereby keeping your system running at lower temps.
3. And it also helps in cable management due to more available space

Rackmount chassis are great because they can fit 24 drives in a 4U unit which is equivalent to the size of a large tower. You can also choose a 3U which may fit about 16 drives.