USB drive as boot device - bad idea?

[atakacs]

Hello

I am using FreeNAS for a few years with good success. My usual setup is a custom configured Dell PowerEdge server (mostly R420 - 1U form factor is important for me) with 32Gb RAM and as much directly attached storage as possible. FreeNAS itself is installed on a USB stick which is

This was working fine over the past 2-3 years but recently (2-3 months) I am seeing a high rate of failure with my USB boot devices, typically ending up in something like this:

(I guess this is a typical boot USB not working - at least my diagnostic).

What I do at this stage is to perform a fresh re-install (9.10.1 u4 as I have read about some potential issues with 9.10.2) to a new key and restore config. This cures the problem but regardless of the brand / capacity used it seems the USB key gets corrupt after a few weeks...

Hence my questions:

1. Is USB booting as described above a "reasonable" approach ?
2. Is there any change is FreeNAS recently that would create a higher wear on the boot device ?
3. Anything else I should be aware in that context ?

Any comments / pointers welcome

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

I don't know if the contents of your screenshot necessarily indicate failure of a USB drive.

A number of members have started using and recommending small SSDs for boot due to high USB drive failure rates. The received wisdom is that USB drives tend to have poor quality flash that can't support continuous writes. If the FreeNAS .system dataset is on the boot device, this will cause a lot of writes, so that would be something to look at. Above all, having a recent backup of your configuration will enable rapid recovery, which is seems you have.

 

[joeschmuck]

Also it is best practice, if you need to use a USB Flash drive as the boot device, to choose a device that is NOT USB 3.x. Typically the USB 3.x drives get hotter and thus typically die prematurely. I am of course one of the promoters to use a single SSD as a boot device.

 

[atakacs]

Thanks for the feedback - I do have recent configs and re-install / restore is relatively painless. Still I'm wondering why this (apparently) sudden increase in USB failures...

 

[atakacs]

I don't know if the contents of your screenshot necessarily indicate failure of a USB drive.

Hmm... what else could result in GRUB not finding the boot device (that's my understanding here) ?

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

what else could result in GRUB not finding the boot device

I would just want to see some corroboration before reaching that conclusion, especially in the context of multiple failures.

 

[joeschmuck]

Do you have a pair of boot USB flash drives? If yes, configure the other one as your boot device.

The issue with mirrored boot devices in FreeNAS is that they are not a true bootable mirrored devices, you need specific RAID hardware to do that.

As for the most likely problem here, I say the flash drive booting the system is wearing out, it's just not in complete failure yet. The likely solution is to replace it with a good USB flash drive.

If you wanted to test out your flash drive then you could run something like dd on it, but that also adds wear to the device.

 

[dlp1950]

I recently was given the responsibility to be the system admin in our small office. Someone else set up FreeNAS 11-1-U2, on a Dell PowerEdge T130, but one of the two flash drives/boot drives is failing. I order 2 64GB, USB, 3.0 External SSD drives to replace them, but I am not sure of the process. I have all the server info, and I have read several post about not using flash drives with FreeNAS 11, so I was hoping to replace the flash drives one at a time and resilver to the SSD.

 

[danb35]

I am not sure of the process

The simplest process is to download the config file, do a fresh installation onto the two new drives, boot from those, then upload the saved config file to the system.

 

[pschatz100]

I don't see any information about your hardware, so it is difficult to offer specific suggestions. However:

There are two boot configurations supported by FreeNAS: UEFI boot and BIOS boot. When I updated to FreeNAS 11.0, I performed a clean install and found that my system was fussy about which boot configuration I used.

Try doing a clean install, as has been suggested. When you run the installer, try selecting the UEFI boot configuration. Make certain your motherboard bios is set appropriately for booting from the selected device. If that doesn't work, then try using the BIOS boot configuration. Again, make certain your bios is set correctly for booting from the selected device.

Note: A few months ago, I migrated from Flash drives to an SSD for my boot device. I am now firmly in the SSD camp.

 

[dlp1950]

The original boot setting is UEFI, thanks. Still waiting for the drives to arrive. Just trying to prep and plan

 

[pschatz100]

As I said, some system are fussy about the boot configuration. I think it has something to do with the motherboard firmware. If you set up everything for UEFI boot and still get errors, try setting up for BIOS boot (some systems call this LEGACY boot.)

When I migrated from booting off flash drives to the SSD, I had to set everything up for BIOS boot. My system would not boot off the SSD I used with UEFI boot configuration.

 

[zazza]

Also it is best practice, if you need to use a USB Flash drive as the boot device, to choose a device that is NOT USB 3.x. Typically the USB 3.x drives get hotter and thus typically die prematurely. I am of course one of the promoters to use a single SSD as a boot device.

As I start down this road, do you have a drive preference? I installed freenas on a USB 3.0 and the next day it went critical. I was able to save the config file.

 

[joeschmuck]

As I start down this road, do you have a drive preference? I installed freenas on a USB 3.0 and the next day it went critical. I was able to save the config file.

I prefer any major manufacturer and the specs are USB 2.x, ensuring it really is not a 3.x spec. This is just me. If you desired a USB 3.x flash drive then I'd ensure it is metal and has a bit of material on it so it can dissipate the heat generated by the device. Sandisk makes USB 2.x small drives. The drive doens't have to be fast, it just has to keep on working.

 

[telgordo]

I think the advice about the USB 3.0 drives is about right, I've run a freenas server for about 3 years but recently decided to upgrade...more drives memory bigger CPU (Xeon 2670), all went well until the thumb drive hit a temperature of 238 degrees C and died......ssd for me

 

[joeschmuck]

I think the advice about the USB 3.0 drives is about right, I've run a freenas server for about 3 years but recently decided to upgrade...more drives memory bigger CPU (Xeon 2670), all went well until the thumb drive hit a temperature of 238 degrees C and died......ssd for me

That is pretty hot! You could burn water at that temperature.

 

[ThreeDee]

I picked up a 128Gb SSD and an inexpensive Sata to USB cable (USB powers the SSD so no extra power cable) and have been running that without issue since I installed it 5 or 6 months ago... I was out of SATA ports so thought I'd give the SATA to USB cable a shot and I have an internal USB port

 

[telgordo]

I picked up a 128Gb SSD and an inexpensive Sata to USB cable (USB powers the SSD so no extra power cable) and have been running that without issue since I installed it 5 or 6 months ago... I was out of SATA ports so thought I'd give the SATA to USB cable a shot and I have an internal USB port

Actually I think this might be a weird bug, I replaced the USB drive with a simple 60GB SSD, and installed a LSI/Avago 9211 HBA, 8 X 3GB WD Red spinners Freenas is now reporting one of the WD drives as running at 237 degrees, yet they are all cool to the touch, lead free solder melts around 217 and yet no pools of metal in the case, joking of course, red except for the strange readings all seems well

 

[telgordo]

Must be the sensors on the drive