BUILD Should I add more RAM?

[Matt Tyree]

Okay, so the question now is, for a SECONDARY vehicle: lifted sedan or regular sedan? i.e. Desktop hardware (crapbox) with FreeNAS or Windows for offsite backup?

 

[depasseg]

Okay, so the question now is, for a SECONDARY vehicle: lifted sedan or regular sedan? i.e. Desktop hardware (crapbox) with FreeNAS or Windows for offsite backup?

Regular sedan should be fine in that case, but without seatbelts (ECC) is still very risky.

 

[Matt Tyree]

Meh. All the original data is on regular desktops with no ECC RAM. NAS is only for backups...for now. Not planning to upgrade to all workstation-grade PCs, so it'll have to do.

 

[SweetAndLow]

Running Windows with usb drives isn't safer it just doesn't tell you about the problems. Zfs knows when there is a problem and alerts you. This is why server hardware is suggested, it is way less prone to silly failures that will cause zfs to send alerts.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[Matt Tyree]

Running Windows with usb drives isn't safer it just doesn't tell you about the problems. Zfs knows when there is a problem and alerts you. This is why server hardware is suggested, it is way less prone to silly failures that will cause zfs to send alerts.

Well, in this case the drives will end up internal SATA on the secondary backup device. The USB drives have just been my backups pre-FreeNAS builds.
What you just said is what keeps confusing me, though. People keep telling me to just keep the data on the usb drives (or sata drives with desktop hardware) rather than use FreeNAS on desktop hardware. But, you're saying the errors will be there either way, FreeNAS just tells me (and attempts to fix it). So, why is it better to use Windows and ignore the errors rather than use FreeNAS? I mean, if the errors are there either way...
Or is it just that on desktop hardware I can't do anything about the errors, so I might as well not get alerted to them all the time?

 

[SweetAndLow]

It's not better to just use Windows. Who is saying this? Running zfs is better than other non checksuming filesystems. If you're hardware is supported run freenas.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[Matt Tyree]

Dice was the first to say that. He'd trust USB drives before FreeNAS on desktop hardware.
I get that server-grade hardware is BEST. My main NAS will be server-grade all the way and that will be built next week if all the hardware shows up and works. But, I have this desktop here, with FreeNAS already on it, that I can use for an offsite, secondary mirror (for catastrophic, my-house-burned-down scenarios). My thought is FreeNAS is better than Windows, even on the same desktop hardware, but folks act like the world will burn if I use FreeNAS on desktop hardware.
Again, I get that it is not the best build for FreeNAS, but is it better than using Windows in this scenario?

 

[Dice]

Don't take my statement out of context.
In my previous post I made a point suggesting that a poorly setup sync solution featuring a 2nd tier freenasbox has the capacity to do more harm than a 2nd tier backup sitting on USB drives.
That is a big difference. If you understood what I actually was pointing to.

Again, I get that it is not the best build for FreeNAS, but is it better than using Windows in this scenario?

I cannot recall any thread that has put this much emphasis on battling forward and backwards the pros and cons and still you want another answer?
At some point you need to make up your own mind and stick with the decision.

 

[Matt Tyree]

I took your statement within context. Assuming you mean "2nd tier" as desktop hardware. You say that FreeNAS on this hardware can do more harm than USB drives. That sort of statement is also where I got the impression that FreeNAS is prone to corrupt data on desktop hardware. What else does "harm" mean? But then I hear that XFS just detects the errors that would exist on Windows as well. So, using FreeNAS is still better, right?

I don't want "another answer," just a clear one. First I got the impression that USB drives are better than FreeNAS on desktop hardware, from you. Given that, I then asked if I should just use Windows on the secondary device, and I thought I had a yes on that from depasseg. Then SweetAndLow says to use FreeNAS over Windows. Obviously opinions will differ. I'm just trying to get a consensus.

I have never run FreeNAS or any NAS before. I don't know this stuff inside and out like you guys do. But, I want to do things as well as I can. So, I want to make sure my course forward is clear. It's clear you all hate desktop hardware for FreeNAS, and I understand that you're purists and are passionate about this. I'm just trying to figure out what is best to do with this second PC I can use for backup in one form or another.

 

[Stux]

Start with FreeNAS on desktop hardware if you want. It will be no worse than Windows. It just won't be as reliable as it can be.

Which means your data won't be as safe as it can be.

 

[Matt Tyree]

Thanks, Stux. Since it will be a secondary, offsite backup, I don't feel too bad about it not being the best build. I will upgrade at some point. I just can't justify the cost after just building my primary NAS (and upgrading the monitors on my desktop).

Thanks, guys! Sorry to burn up so much of your time by being confused.

 

[Ericloewe]

you think you bought a terrain capable hardcore 4x4 SUV, but instead ends up with a lifted sedan...

You mean the original BMW X1? That thing's an E91 3-Series on stilts and it sold like crazy.

 

[depasseg]

I took your statement within context. Assuming you mean "2nd tier" as desktop hardware. You say that FreeNAS on this hardware can do more harm than USB drives. That sort of statement is also where I got the impression that FreeNAS is prone to corrupt data on desktop hardware. What else does "harm" mean? But then I hear that XFS just detects the errors that would exist on Windows as well. So, using FreeNAS is still better, right?

I don't want "another answer," just a clear one. First I got the impression that USB drives are better than FreeNAS on desktop hardware, from you. Given that, I then asked if I should just use Windows on the secondary device, and I thought I had a yes on that from depasseg. Then SweetAndLow says to use FreeNAS over Windows. Obviously opinions will differ. I'm just trying to get a consensus.

I have never run FreeNAS or any NAS before. I don't know this stuff inside and out like you guys do. But, I want to do things as well as I can. So, I want to make sure my course forward is clear. It's clear you all hate desktop hardware for FreeNAS, and I understand that you're purists and are passionate about this. I'm just trying to figure out what is best to do with this second PC I can use for backup in one form or another.

My advice wasn't for Windows. It was for FreeNAS but using less than the recommended amount of RAM. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Matt Tyree]

Gotcha. No worries! I was using Dice's previously used analogy with cars.
Regular Sedan = Desktop hardware with Windows
Lifted Sedan = Desktop hardware with FreeNAS
SUV = Server hardware with FreeNAS
:-D

In the end, my Lifted Sedan will have 16GB of RAM, just not ECC.

Thanks again for all the insight, guys!

 

[Dice]

Assuming you mean "2nd tier" as desktop hardware.

2nd tier refers to backup level, not the hardware quality.
It is rather common to have some data that is very important and thus interesting to maintain at full quality at multiple tiers. Other less critical data may not be maintained in sync to a 2nd tier backup solution. Some data may only be relevant on the first tier. Other - no less never being transferred to a 3rd tier backup solution. From this logic stems the idea of 'backup tiers' and is a way to say, you've a "primary box", a "secondary box" and a shelf full of drives with critical content on them.

The emphasis in my post was not on hardware quality, but managing the chain of backups properly. In that context, a badly fitted freenas box causing errors can be massively problematic under certain circumstances. Thus, pointing towards the importance of 1) good quality hardware and 2) a thought through backup system where data is <assured> not put at jeopardy.
Perhaps it was too early in your process to present you with that challenge, nevertheless you probably will pay more attention to these aspects once you come around to configure the neat functions for off site backups with FreeNAS :)

Since it will be a secondary, offsite backup

This is great. Offsite in particular. Too few have that.

Cheers.

 

[Matt Tyree]

Thanks, man. Long term: definite server-quality on the offsite. I just ain't made of money! :-D

Scenario now is my desktops will back up to a local, server-quality FreeNAS build, and then that NAS will mirror to an offsite, desktop-quality FreeNAS.

Prior to this, I had 2 USB drives on one end of the house and a second set on the other end of the house as a mirror. My temporary answer to off-site backup. :-D

neat functions for off site backups with FreeNAS

Ah great. More stuff to figure out. I was just going to use FTP. I'm such a newb. :-D

 

[nojohnny101]

Scenario now is my desktops will back up to a local, server-quality FreeNAS build, and then that NAS will mirror to an offsite, desktop-quality FreeNAS.

Well after all that, I think you have the right frame of mind now. That sounds like a good plan given your budget constraints.

Here is the relevant section on replication which is the best for backing data up from one freenas box to another freenas box.
http://doc.freenas.org/9.10/storage.html#replication-tasks
I would also recommend you do the first backup locally (put them on the same network) so that it doesn't take an eon. Subsequent rep,icstions will only send "changed" data so that should be no problem doing that remotely.

 

[Matt Tyree]

Well after all that, I think you have the right frame of mind now. That sounds like a good plan given your budget constraints.

Ha! Took long enough, right? :-D

Here is the relevant section on replication which is the best for backing data up from one freenas box to another freenas box.
http://doc.freenas.org/9.10/storage.html#replication-tasks
I would also recommend you do the first backup locally (put them on the same network) so that it doesn't take an eon. Subsequent rep,icstions will only send "changed" data so that should be no problem doing that remotely.

Sweet. Thanks!
Yeah, had the same notion when backing up through ftp to an offsite PC (pre-FreeNAS). Mirrored the drives locally first, then moved them offsite.

 

[Stux]

Ha! Took long enough, right? :-D


Sweet. Thanks!
Yeah, had the same notion when backing up through ftp to an offsite PC (pre-FreeNAS). Mirrored the drives locally first, then moved them offsite.

The other part of the backup recipe is to use snapshots.

So you have your onsite backup replicated offsite.

But the crypto-ransomware-locker encrypts your backup, which replicates off site.

Not a problem, you just rollback to a previous snapshot, or pull a file from a previous snapshot.

So, then the question becomes, how long to keep snapshots ;)

 

[Matt Tyree]

The other part of the backup recipe is to use snapshots.

Yeah, I had looked into snapshots and they are on the list. Just wanted to get the basic build and installation figured out first, then start getting into the other features.
If I have a local and remote FreeNAS box, would you do snapshots on both?