Preinstall Questions - Turning Old PC Into NAS with 4-Bay Enclosure

[MZAdotcom]

I'm looking to build a NAS for the obvious reasons: having a central place for all of my files, backing up my various systems and, maybe on occasion, streaming a bit of audio/video. So far, I've done a good amount of research. For the time being, I'm going for the turning an old PC into a NAS route vs. building one from scratch or buying a prebuilt one. The prebuilt ones seem a bit overpriced IMHO.

The old PC I'm working with is a Gateway desktop with a 1-core Pentium 4 2.8GHz CPU, 2GB of 533MHz RAM and a 40GB HDD running Windows XP SP3 @ the moment. What I want to do is run FreeNAS through a USB Drive, as is recommended, and use an external 4-bay enclosure for the HDD's. This is because the desktop has a small form factor and only 2 bays: HDD @ one and ODD in the other.

I've found everything I want @ Newegg. Here's the enclosure I've been eying: VANTEC NexStar HX4 NST-640SU3-BK 3.5" Black USB3.0 & eSATA Quad Bay HDD Enclosure. With this unit there's plenty of room to expand in the future.

For the time being I'm going to go with *2* 2TB HDD's, most likely WD Reds [WD20EFRX].

I know I'm going to need a port-multiplier card for the old PC so I can have eSATA access to the enclosure. The Rosewill RC-216 PCI Express eSATA II x 2 / ATA 133 x1 RAID 0/1/0+1/JBOD mode Controller Card seems to fit the bill.

So my question is: Will this setup work? Can an older PC with 2 HDD's attached to it through an eSATA enclosure [vs. straight attached to the motherboard SATA ports] run/be used as a NAS with FreeNAS?

Anybody gone through the same experience with their NAS setup? Do I need anything else for this to work? Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[cyberjock]

If you plan to use UFS it may work(minus all of the external bad joo-joo). For ZFS it would be slow beyond all reason.

Not sure how the multiplier will work. I've heard nothing but horror stories about those in the past so I've never dumped any money on them. They definitely add another potential failure that could cause a loss of data.

Using any type of external drive for FreeNAS is just a bad idea. Sounds great on paper but is less than reliable in the reality of it.

If you really expect to use this machine for anything except to learn how to use FreeNAS for a week or two consider buying much newer hardware, 6GB+ as the manual states, and all internal drives.

 

[jgreco]

Add up all the money for the enclosures, port multiplier cards, and most importantly the frustration of building a sub-par box with old hardware that is far below what FreeNAS was designed for. Then go read up on some of the inexpensive builds people have done for a small NAS here.

If the cost scares you, then it is probably better for you to go get a cheap SoC NAS like the iomega 35887, $110 here, put your disks in it, and it will very likely perform better than that P4 2.8 under FreeNAS.

The watts alone burned by the older P4's are kind of horrifying, they'll happily burn anywhere from maybe 60 to 115 watts for relatively lethargic performance (by today's standards). Today we have people looking at 17W CPU's and very efficient systems, and you'll save a lot of money over the lifetime of a well designed modern system when compared to the P4.

 

[cyberjock]

I know when I looked at building a pfsense box that would run 24x7 I had an old p4 I thought about using since it can't do much else. Unfortunately, you run that sucker for 5 years straight and you'll spend more on electricity than buying all the parts I bought for my atom machine AND the electricity it will use over those 5 years. So Atom it was.

Electricity plays a big part when you start looking at 24x7 usage... make sure you factor that into your equations. :P

 

[MZAdotcom]

First off, thank you very much for the info, noobsauce80 and jgreco. Very helpful.

"If you plan to use UFS it may work(minus all of the external bad joo-joo). For ZFS it would be slow beyond all reason."

I should be more clear about my needs:

1. UFS is what I want, not ZFS. Meaning, I'm not looking into performance [ha! @ 1-core P4], but reliability and ease of access.
2. Keeping it as green/economical as possible is a high priority for me.
3. I DO NOT plan on having it on 24/7. It's going to come on when needed.
4. Remote access is going to be very important, as another person is going to need to access files from her work.

Not sure how the multiplier will work. I've heard nothing but horror stories about those in the past so I've never dumped any money on them. They definitely add another potential failure that could cause a loss of data.Using any type of external drive for FreeNAS is just a bad idea. Sounds great on paper but is less than reliable in the reality of it.

Very interesting. In my research I've found that if I want to go with this setup, a port-multiplier is necessary. Without it, only *1* HDD will be recognized in any enclosure.

So, it is a bad idea, though doable, to have FreeNAS running HDD's externally. Very good to know.

If you really expect to use this machine for anything except to learn how to use FreeNAS for a week or two consider buying much newer hardware, 6GB+ as the manual states, and all internal drives.

Being aware of the 6GB RAM requirement, again, I'm not going for power/speed. I initially wanted to build a system, loving a good challenge, but @ this moment, I don't have the time/energy to attempt it. Running a small business eats up my hours.

Add up all the money for the enclosures, port multiplier cards, and most importantly the frustration of building a sub-par box with old hardware that is far below what FreeNAS was designed for. Then go read up on some of the inexpensive builds people have done for a small NAS here.

If the cost scares you, then it is probably better for you to go get a cheap SoC NAS like the iomega 35887, $110 here, put your disks in it, and it will very likely perform better than that P4 2.8 under FreeNAS.

The watts alone burned by the older P4's are kind of horrifying, they'll happily burn anywhere from maybe 60 to 115 watts for relatively lethargic performance (by today's standards). Today we have people looking at 17W CPU's and very efficient systems, and you'll save a lot of money over the lifetime of a well designed modern system when compared to the P4.

I think you're right, very useful info. As mentioned, I've done an ample amount of online research.

Thank you for the suggestion/link! Looked into it [there's a informative 5+ minute video about it] and that unit looks like it has everything I'm looking for. The only downside is it's only 2-bays. I really would prefer 4, but hey, I just have to get 2 bigger HDD's. So yes, going to pick it up plus this HDD. Is there a finders fee I should be aware of? :p

I know when I looked at building a pfsense box that would run 24x7 I had an old p4 I thought about using since it can't do much else. Unfortunately, you run that sucker for 5 years straight and you'll spend more on electricity than buying all the parts I bought for my atom machine AND the electricity it will use over those 5 years. So Atom it was.

Electricity plays a big part when you start looking at 24x7 usage... make sure you factor that into your equations. :P

I definitely have one eye on the bill and energy usage/cost. In my setup, having a system on 24/7 makes no sense @ all. My plan is that the NAS will come on on a as needed basis for file syncing, backups and remote access = low power consumption and less wear/tear on the system.

Appreciate all the great info/advice. :)

 

[cyberjock]

If you aren't going to use ZFS then that 6GB requirement goes out the window. What you have is probably fine.

Using External drive is very dangerous territory because you have lots of extra cables(both power and data). Unplugging the wrong one on accident by bumping it can have catastrophic consequences. Plenty of people do it and alot of people regret it. If you plan to build this somewhere and you are okay with the risk go for it. But don't be upset when you accidentally unplug the power cord to your power strip of hard drives and suddenly they're all corrupt.

There are downsides to those cheap COTS stuff. If they break you may be forced to buy the exact same model just to get access to your data again. In some situations if the box breaks there is no way to get at your data again even with the same model because there is no ability to import data from another box. For backups only though who cares? Buy another box and do another round of backups.

Actually, for hard drives it seems powering them up and down is more wear and tear than letting them run 24x7. Been quite a few long discussions in the forum about this and while everyone notices the same trend nobody really understands why. My guess is the thermal shock of on/off cycles. I have 24 drives in my home server for the last 3 years.. had 1 failure despite 24x7 usage. The only time I shut it down is for bad storms here(such as a tornado in 2010) and if I go on vacation for more than a week and I know I won't want to remotely access my system(which I always end up wanting to remotely access later).

 

[JaimieV]

"1. UFS is what I want, not ZFS. Meaning, I'm not looking into performance [ha! @ 1-core P4], but reliability and ease of access."

Got that backwards, really. UFS is higher performing on older kit than ZFS because it needs less CPU and RAM and is much simpler. Reliability comes with ZFS's data protection features, multi-disk resilience, and ZFS arrays are easier to port from one (suddenly expired) PC to another.

"2. Keeping it as green/economical as possible is a high priority for me."

Much better to buy a new thing then. Have you already considered and discarded an HP Microserver N40L? (I can't recall what the new one is - N56L or something) They are near perfect domestic FreeNAS boxes.

 

[survive]

Hi JamieV,

Take a look at these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rue&SrchInDesc=microserver&Page=1&PageSize=20

The N40L is the older model and is a pretty good deal with that $50.00 rebate. The N54L has a 700mhz faster proc.

-Will

 

[JaimieV]

That's the ones. I'm in the UK so Newegg is no use for me, plus I've already got a pair of N36L's which were just £80 each (US$130) after rebates and tax. Well under 30W, plus drives - great buy.