BUILD New build check please - what have I missed?

[Kristan McDonald]

Hi all,

My (very) ageing microserver based FreeNAS box is really starting to creak and I've decided to sort it out. It currently 6 x 2TB drives in 2 RAIDZ1 vols and 16GB ram, running a few jails and CIFS shares. It's mostly a media storage box so I'd like to add Plex to it, but there's no way it would cope.

So.... I want something that's just going to work with minimal hassle and maximum data safety and reliability. It's basically a build-from-scratch, so I can leave the old one on-line until everything is copied over. Once that's done, I'll probably re-use the 2TB's in the new box. Though god knows I won't need the storage :

• 3 x 3TB WD Red drives (£85 each - £255 total)
• 3 x 3TB Seagate NAS drives (£85 each- £255 total)
• Corsair CXM 600W Bronze PSU (£58)
• Supermicro X10SL7-F (£205)
• Xeon E3-1230 v3 3.3Ghz (£195)
• 4 x Crucial CT102472BD160B 8GB modules (£55 each - £220 total)
• NZXT Source 210 Elite case (£38)
• Many, many sata cables
• Extra fans

Some notes on my reasoning on the config:
The new 3TB drives will be in a single RAIDZ2 vol. I've gone with two brands of 3TB disks to try and reduce the chance of multiple failures in a short time frame. While price/TB on 4TB drives is a few pennies better, I don't need the extra space (or cost) and I want to keep RAIDZ2, so 6 disks is the ideal (as far as my recent reading tells me!). I went for the X10SL7 to get the extra controller and drive sockets so I can re-use the existing drives.

So questions:

• The case looks ok and is dirt cheap. I was looking at a Node 804 but I'm a little concerned about all the drives being cramped together. Any alternatives I should look at? I'd like a rack mount but I'm not sure I can justify the cost. I'm way over budget as it is :D
• What's the best way to re-use the existing 2TB disks? A totally separate pool?
• Anything I've missed or anything that looks silly? Most of the above is cribbed from forum posts here, so it's entirely possible I've misunderstood something.
• I've got a spare 64GB SSD lying around. I played with using it as combined ZIL/L2ARC before but it seemed to make no discernible difference (which was pretty much what I expected from what I'd read and my use case). Should I just bung the OS on it or can I make better use?
• I want to add a UPS to the above, but I can't find many recommendations. Is there anything to look for/avoid when shopping?

Cheers!

 

[Bidule0hm]

The only bad thing I see is the PSU: don't buy a Corsair CS or CX, get a better one (like a SeaSonic one) ;)

As for the questions:

• I don't know, wait for another answer.
• Yep, if you mix 2 and 3 TB drives the 3 TB ones will be limited to 2 TB.
• 6x 2 TB RAID-Z1 is very risky so you might want to change that to RAID-Z2.
• If you don't know you need a ZIL and/or L2ARC then you don't need it, don't bother and use the SSD for the OS.
• Just make sure it's on the compatibility list.

 

[DrKK]

Concur. 6x2TB Raid-Z is definitely pushing your luck. For 2TB drives, I personally would never suggest going more than four of them per RAID-Z vdev.
I suggest you consider a six-drive RAID-Z2, which should be air tight for the next infinity years.

 

[Kristan McDonald]

Guys, the *old* setup is 6 x 2TB - the new one will be 6 x 3 TB raidZ2. I very much want to get away from my current setup as I'm well aware it's not great!

 

[DrKK]

See, this is what happens when I trust a commenter, instead of reading the original post carefully. Sorry, Kristan.

Also, a *LOT* of people go on this "Seasonic" jihad here. I never understood it. I do know that people tend to stay away from the Corsairs in this community, but I can't cite any cogent reasoning.

 

[Kristan McDonald]

Haha no worries

I've not built a PC in years so I've no idea what PSU to go for tbh. I picked the Corsair as they always had a good rep back in my overclocking days and it had lots of positive reviews on Amazon!

I'll have a look at Seasonic, have seen their name mentioned a fair bit on here but I'd never heard of them before.

 

[danb35]

You could put the old 6 x 2 TB disks into a separate pool, or you could add them to your pool as another vdev (so you'd have 6 x 3 TB RAIDZ2 and 6 x 2 TB RAIDZ2 in one pool). The latter would be my vote, and is similar to what I've done on my system.

 

[Bidule0hm]

I said that for the RAID-Z1 because from what I've understood you want to keep the old volume too.

Old Corsair PSUs may have been great but today Corsair PSUs are not that great (I know because I own one (CX-500) and I'm not that happy). I also own a SeaSonic (X-650) and the reviews are better than good on the X series. The primary reason I'd choose SeaSonic over Corsair is because of the components and built quality.

 

[joeschmuck]

Over the past 4 years I have not read a bad review on SeaSonic power supplies from any site which actually tests and tears them apart, and I do mean tears them apart component by component. And often if you do your homework, you will find a SeaSonic hidden under someone else's label.

I know I've had 2 Corsair power supplies and their ratings were under ideal circumstances because I never got those in my two units. That was many many years ago so I am biased now. I recall when there was a time (before most of you were born) where Seagate drives ruled the world, then they became crap. That was back in the late 1980's. Well it took them over 5 years to recover and now I trust them. Corsair can do the same thing but right now I'm waiting on credible data to state they are a good choice. I'll investigate it the next time I need to purchase a power supply.

At the OP, there was two things I didn't see in your configuration...

UPS ! You need an UPS, and a reasonable one at that.

Communicator ! You need this too. Okay, you don't NEED it, but it's a nice addition.

 

[JDCynical]

I recall when there was a time (before most of you were born) where Seagate drives ruled the world, then they became crap. That was back in the late 1980's.

*cough*

ftp://ftp.seagate.com/techsuppt/misc/format.txt

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/misc/st225_cables.jpg

Mechanical stepper motors and ISA adapter cards on XT class machines, those were the days!

UPS ! You need an UPS, and a reasonable one at that.

Indeed. I wouldn't go below 1K myself.

 

[joeschmuck]

Mechanical stepper motors and ISA adapter cards on XT class machines, those were the days!

Yes they were and I recall doing alignments on those in my living room, and on 5.25" floppy disk drives too. Or modifying an MFM drive to the RLL interface to get more capacity out of the same drive. Good times.

 

[Ericloewe]

Corsair CXM 600W Bronze PSU (£58)

Also, a *LOT* of people go on this "Seasonic" jihad here.

There are a couple of points:

"Corsair" is a bit vague:

• Ultra-low-end (CX, CS to some extent) is "meh" - not good, but not dangerous. Pricing works in its favor. OEM is CWT, group-regulated design on CX, basic DC-DC on CS. Sleeve bearing fans.
  
• Mid-range has been unified under the RM line. All current units seem to be CWT, but Corsair does seem to have designed them (it's a modern design, unlike CX). Ok, but Chinese crapacitors are still present on some models, IIRC. Glorified sleeve bearing fans (Hydrodynamic bearing or whatever).
  
• High-mid-range (RMi) seems to have corrected some of the issues with older RMs. Uses newer cables with capacitors for extra ripple suppression. Same glorified sleeve bearing. Capacitors are Japanese.
• HX/HXi is a similar product to RM, but platinum level. Japanese capacitors.
• AX units are rebranded Seasonic Platinum units (AX650/750/850 were Seasonic X-Series, AX1200 was a custom design manufactured by Flextronics). Excellent electrical characteristics without CWT's somewhat dubious production quality (and control thereof). Ball bearing fans (Sanyo Denki on the lower capacities, Yate-Loon on the AX1200).
• AXi units are custom designs manufactured by Flextronics. AX750i/850i/1200i use a low-end ball bearing fan (Yate-Loon), AX1500i uses a glorified sleeve bearing.

In the golden days of yore, Corsair's mid-range was Seasonic (TX v1, I believe) and those units were very popular.

More recently, Corsair's stuff has moved to CWT, which is a somewhat dubious OEM, which caused some backlash.

As for Seasonic:

Seasonic's units are always very good, some are excellent. Build quality is always solid, mostly excellent, with all electrolytic capacitors being Japanese all the way down to the G-Series. Ball bearing fans throughout, also - ok fans on the G-Series, Sanyo Denki on X-Series and up (except for the SnowSilent units, which have glorified sleeve bearings, for the suckers who really want it).

The new kid on the block is Super Flower, which seems to mostly produce stuff for EVGA (with equivalent Seasonic units also available). Their stuff is very good, but long-term reliability is still unverified.

Also, Seasonic on a bad day is somewhat reassuring. Spoiler: As long as it ran, ripple and voltage regulation were still excellent.

 

[Ericloewe]

By the way, consider a Seasonic X-650 or Platinum 650. G-550 if you don't plan on expanding beyond the 12 drives. If pricing is very favorable, a G-650 instead of an X-650 or Platinum 650 is also a good option. G-750 is at the edge of what the platform can do, so I'd definitely recommend an X-series from there.

 

[Kristan McDonald]

Cheers guys, I'll definitely look at a better PSU - lots of good info there.

UPS is on the list, I just don't really know where to start with that. Any recommendations? The ones I'm used to working with tend to take up whole racks :-D

 

[joeschmuck]

There are a lot of options and opinions with an UPS, just like a power supply. I prefer the APC brand, specifically a good quality one like the one listed in my system specs (see Show: My Main System). And others like Cyber Power (specific ones as well). Remember one thing, the UPS protects your investment and data so d not try to get away cheap here.

When purchasing an UPS you need to consider how long you would like to have it run, do you have a lot of power issues where you live. There are two ways to setup how your FreeNAS machine handles power losses, one is to wait until the UPS is at low battery before signalling your FreeNAS system to shutdown, the second is to wait a certain period of time (30 seconds I think is the default but it can be changed) and if the power isn't restored, it signals your FreeNAS to shut down. I personally use the first option to keep it running as long as possible. I do not have frequent power issues so this works for me and mine is rated to last 78 minutes with my 75 watt load. As the batteries age it will diminish but I factored that in. I want at least 15 minutes run time.

Here is the tool I used to select the UPS. I used different values to see what the different results were just to gauge the VA size I needed. I didn't use this tool in my final selection, that was done using some online research and how many good or bad things were said about the product. The only bad thing about my specific product was the way NewEgg shipped it. The first 2 came physically broken (they may have worked if I plugged them in but if the case is broken, not gonna happen). They are heavy and the delivery company dropped it at least once. The third one was the charm and with NewEgg, I didn't pay a dime for return shipment.

So buy the best one you can afford but do not buy a cheap one no matter what, you will be unhappy with it. Also it must have a USB (or serial if you have a serial port) control/signal cable so the UPS can notify your system of the power issues and shut things down to protect your data.

 

[diedrichg]

See, this is what happens when I trust a commenter, instead of reading the original post carefully. Sorry, Kristan.

Also, a *LOT* of people go on this "Seasonic" jihad here. I never understood it. I do know that people tend to stay away from the Corsairs in this community, but I can't cite any cogent reasoning.

I too think it's interesting the push for a particular PSU name since most _brands_ are made by another manufacturer and are re-branded.

Here is an article about it. It lists the brand and who actually manufactured that particular model. The list continues on subsequent pages. Of note: Corsair (gasp! I said Corsair!) has several series that are manufactured by Seasonic.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-psu-brands,3762-5.html

 

[rogerh]

Just because a firm is designing and making something for someone else does not mean that they necessarily use their own specifications. They do have their reputation to think about, but if the firm ordering the PSUs specifies cheaper components they will probably use cheaper components, within limits. There is a difference, not always transparent, between merely rebadging current production and specifying one's own version. The end result is that you have to do a lot of research to find out exactly what you are buying. So, if both reviewers and respected contributors here can give me the name of a make and model which is well-made and reliable, then I am going to be willing to pay a bit more to save time and worry. And if it is a manufacturer who, up to now, has not made a habit of revising down the specs of existing models then all the better!

 

[Ericloewe]

Just because a firm is designing and making something for someone else does not mean that they necessarily use their own specifications. They do have their reputation to think about, but if the firm ordering the PSUs specifies cheaper components they will probably use cheaper components, within limits. There is a difference, not always transparent, between merely rebadging current production and specifying one's own version. The end result is that you have to do a lot of research to find out exactly what you are buying. So, if both reviewers and respected contributors here can give me the name of a make and model which is well-made and reliable, then I am going to be willing to pay a bit more to save time and worry. And if it is a manufacturer who, up to now, has not made a habit of revising down the specs of existing models then all the better!

You make a good point.

What I find intriguing is that Corsair does most of the design of their midrange stuff, but then outsources everything (except the modular connector design) to Seasonic for the AX units.
It's not like Seasonic won't do cost-downs (not under their brand, but as an OEM for others) like cheaper crapacitors, so it's weird to see that Corsair even kept the San Ace fan on the AX units.

 

[diedrichg]

[*]High-mid-range (RMi) seems to have corrected some of the issues with older RMs. Uses newer cables with capacitors for extra ripple suppression. Same glorified sleeve bearing. Capacitors are Japanese.
[*]HX/HXi is a similar product to RM, but platinum level. Japanese capacitors.
[*]AX units are rebranded Seasonic Platinum units (AX650/750/850 were Seasonic X-Series, AX1200 was a custom design manufactured by Flextronics). Excellent electrical characteristics without CWT's somewhat dubious production quality (and control thereof). Ball bearing fans (Sanyo Denki on the lower capacities, Yate-Loon on the AX1200).
[*]AXi units are custom designs manufactured by Flextronics. AX750i/850i/1200i use a low-end ball bearing fan (Yate-Loon), AX1500i uses a glorified sleeve bearing.
[/LIST]
In the golden days of yore, Corsair's mid-range was Seasonic (TX v1, I believe) and those units were very popular.

More recently, Corsair's stuff has moved to CWT, which is a somewhat dubious OEM, which caused some backlash.

What's your source for the capacitors and fan qualities that are installed on each model line? I'd like to reference it for future builds.

 

[Ericloewe]

What's your source for the capacitors and fan qualities that are installed on each model line? I'd like to reference it for future builds.

Reviews, basically. There isn't a single, neatly-compiled source that I know of.

jonnyguru.com and hardocp.com have the larger libraries, tomshardware.com has a few newer reviews which are very thorough and anandtech.com tests at more power levels, but with less detail.

Marketing will also make a point of making the use of Japanese capacitors known. Marketing will also announce the presence of pseudo-sleeve bearing fans, since they're supposedly quieter without being as nasty as regular sleeve bearings. From my point of view, if the PSU is the noisy part of your system, you have bigger problems.