My ideal lower end server CPU, what is yours?

[joeschmuck]

@Arwen I like this thread because I'm considering replacing my system with something that has similar specifications. The one thing I can't find is a "low cost" CPU to make this work. After that the server class MB is expensive as well. I really like IPMI, spoiled I guess otherwise I might look into consumer boards that would still support ECC.

So when you find something that meets your specs, or close to it, I will take a serious interest in it.

 

[joeschmuck]

@Arwen Does the CPU need to be new? There are a lot of used Xeon Scalable CPUs on the market for dirt cheap. The only thing I really don't like is the newer CPUs are more power efficient and have a few extra features. For example, a person in California is selling two operational Xeon 8118 CPUs for under $30. These CPUs which hit EOL at the end of December 2023 are flooding the market. even these are significantly better than my current CPU. Maybe there are some drawbacks that would remove these from consideration.

 

[Arwen]

Part of the problem searching for a lower end CPU, is that their are a crap ton of low end CPUs. It is the "server" part that tends to throw a wrench into the gears.

Yes, an older Intel CPU can work. But, their is a point when that older generation is just not power efficient enough for a practical low end server, (aka something running 24x365). Even if electricity usage is not too much of an issue, heat can be because it needs to get out of the case and the area around the case.

Sometimes I wish both AMD & Intel would design a low end server line as I outlined. Today we need enough PCIe lanes for NVMe. Even if it is not an all NVMe NAS, we still need more than 24 PCIe lanes that AMD provides on their desktop line, (24 does not include chipset PCIe lanes...)

Also to be considered a low end server CPU, having it top out at 8, 12 or 16 cores is a must. I mean the "ideal" low end server CPU could be part of a CPU line that DOES include >16 cores. But, we need choices below that for a practical low end server CPU.

As I wrote earlier, AMD's Epyc 3000 servers were nice, but today the use really old cores. AMD Ryzen Embedded 5000 series have a recent core with ECC memory support, on AM4 socket, but still has that 24 PCIe lane limit. However, the AMD Ryzen Embedded V-3000 series is just too limited, only 20 Gen4 PCIe lanes. It does include dual channel DDR5 with ECC support, and 2 x 10Gbit/ps Ethernet, (though I don't know what that means...)

Looking for Intel options has always been frustrating to me... because I'd have to check CPU against which socket, then find a board with that socket. THEN, I'd have to see if that board supported that specific CPU. It is almost like Intel purposefully designed multiple sockets for forced upgrades.


Now their are lots of people that think their ideal low end server CPU must support some feature. For example, for them, it must run their VMs, Apps, or tons of other things. So, it is all personal perspective.

 

[joeschmuck]

So, it is all personal perspective.

Couldn't agree more. And I agree with everything you said above.

In my situation I run a system that uses a lot of power, it is old. At some point I need to pull the trigger to purchase a lower power sucking CPU and MB. The M.2 chips running ELPM sip power when not in use, and when in use it's still just a slightly larger sip of power. My UPS says I'm using 150W/hr and that is 24/7. I will place a more accurate meter on the server to obtain a valid reading because that just seems too high. My point is, I need to spend a bit of money to lower my running costs for electricity. Time to generate a spreadsheet to calculate when I can recover the cost of a new system.

EDIT: The UPS also had plugged in a few accessories bringing up the wattage to 150. Used a seperate power meter, idle is about 60 watts for just the NAS.

 

[joeschmuck]

How about this setup, does it come close enough to the original question?

AMD Ryzen 5 7000 w/GPU and 6 cores (65 Watt) (for the same price a Ryzen 5 7600x 105 watt, no GPU and much faster)
AsRock Rack B650D4U
Two 32GB DDR5 ECC (On QVL)
And for the heck of it, a TPM

This MB gives you a lot. PCIe5.0 Lanes - x16, x4, x1(PCIe4.0) Slots, two M.2 slots (one PCIe4.0), 4 SATA 6.0 Gb/s, 1Gb/s Intel NIC, BMC, IPMI, in an mATX size. If you spring for one of the sister boards they include two 10Gb/s NICs at the price of a built in M.2 slot, it's a compromise I guess. Of course it have four UBS 3.2 Gen 1 ports on the back, two USB 3.2 Gen 1 and two USB 2.0 headers, serial port, VGA via the onboard graphics chip, other ports if the CPU has a GPU. This board does support four DDR5 slots however if you use more than two, the speed slows down so it's not a 4x width, it's dual ranking. Will that matter in a home server? Maybe, it doesn't for me. Each slot is capable of a 32GB stick and 64GB it enough for me. If I really needed more, I'd have to weigh the pros and cons.

Total cost: $775. (estimated as of today, you could save a few bucks if you went without a GPU)
I did not factor in storage as that the end user can decide. I'd want five 4TB M.2 myself for my pool and another 4TB for ESXi.

This should support eight M.2 cards, seven at PCIe5.0 and one at PCIe4.0 speeds. You would need adapter cards for the x16 slot and x4 slot of course if that is the path you desire.

I could not prove bifurcation is supported however I suspect it is. I need to look a little deeper.

Would this be for me? It is not cost effective to replace my current system, however I may do it just because I want to. It is afterall a hobby. But is well would be worth it if you need to build a new NAS system.

I just calculated out my current power consumption and cost. My cost of power changes between winter and summer so I took the worst case of 14 cents per Kw. $6.25 per month or $76.04 per year. To recover the investment it would take 20.6 years if I assume I'm using half the power which would be a generous assumption, but at the same cost of power.

 

[morganL]

Part of the problem searching for a lower end CPU, is that their are a crap ton of low end CPUs. It is the "server" part that tends to throw a wrench into the gears.

Yes, an older Intel CPU can work. But, their is a point when that older generation is just not power efficient enough for a practical low end server, (aka something running 24x365). Even if electricity usage is not too much of an issue, heat can be because it needs to get out of the case and the area around the case.

Sometimes I wish both AMD & Intel would design a low end server line as I outlined. Today we need enough PCIe lanes for NVMe. Even if it is not an all NVMe NAS, we still need more than 24 PCIe lanes that AMD provides on their desktop line, (24 does not include chipset PCIe lanes...)

Also to be considered a low end server CPU, having it top out at 8, 12 or 16 cores is a must. I mean the "ideal" low end server CPU could be part of a CPU line that DOES include >16 cores. But, we need choices below that for a practical low end server CPU.

As I wrote earlier, AMD's Epyc 3000 servers were nice, but today the use really old cores. AMD Ryzen Embedded 5000 series have a recent core with ECC memory support, on AM4 socket, but still has that 24 PCIe lane limit. However, the AMD Ryzen Embedded V-3000 series is just too limited, only 20 Gen4 PCIe lanes. It does include dual channel DDR5 with ECC support, and 2 x 10Gbit/ps Ethernet, (though I don't know what that means...)

Looking for Intel options has always been frustrating to me... because I'd have to check CPU against which socket, then find a board with that socket. THEN, I'd have to see if that board supported that specific CPU. It is almost like Intel purposefully designed multiple sockets for forced upgrades.


Now their are lots of people that think their ideal low end server CPU must support some feature. For example, for them, it must run their VMs, Apps, or tons of other things. So, it is all personal perspective.

One thing to note is that increasingly the low-end server market is referred to as the "edge/IOT" market. My guess is the Intel Xeon D 17xx/27xx family is closest to your set of requirements. They market this for

The current gen is OK and there's a new gen coming. The link below is the top end, but there is a low-end with 2 core. It's not as cost-effctive as the Atom line, but its more powerful.

Intel® Xeon® D-2798NX Processor (30M Cache, up to 3.10 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Xeon® D-2798NX Processor (30M Cache, up to 3.10 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

www.intel.com

A small NAS is an Edge device or part of the larger IoT trend.

 

[Davvo]

The 2 Core is the Intel® Xeon® D-1602 Processor.

Intel® Xeon® D Processors - System-on-Chip Processors

Intel® Xeon® D processors specifications, benchmarks, features, Intel® technology, reviews, pricing, and where to buy.

www.intel.com

 

[Arwen]

How about this setup, does it come close enough to the original question?

AMD Ryzen 5 7000 w/GPU and 6 cores (65 Watt) (for the same price a Ryzen 5 7600x 105 watt, no GPU and much faster)
AsRock Rack B650D4U
Two 32GB DDR5 ECC (On QVL)
And for the heck of it, a TPM

This MB gives you a lot. PCIe5.0 Lanes - x16, x4, x1(PCIe4.0) Slots, two M.2 slots (one PCIe4.0), 4 SATA 6.0 Gb/s, 1Gb/s Intel NIC, BMC, IPMI, in an mATX size. If you spring for one of the sister boards they include two 10Gb/s NICs at the price of a built in M.2 slot, it's a compromise I guess. Of course it have four UBS 3.2 Gen 1 ports on the back, two USB 3.2 Gen 1 and two USB 2.0 headers, serial port, VGA via the onboard graphics chip, other ports if the CPU has a GPU. This board does support four DDR5 slots however if you use more than two, the speed slows down so it's not a 4x width, it's dual ranking. Will that matter in a home server? Maybe, it doesn't for me. Each slot is capable of a 32GB stick and 64GB it enough for me. If I really needed more, I'd have to weigh the pros and cons.

Total cost: $775. (estimated as of today, you could save a few bucks if you went without a GPU)
I did not factor in storage as that the end user can decide. I'd want five 4TB M.2 myself for my pool and another 4TB for ESXi.

This should support eight M.2 cards, seven at PCIe5.0 and one at PCIe4.0 speeds. You would need adapter cards for the x16 slot and x4 slot of course if that is the path you desire.

I could not prove bifurcation is supported however I suspect it is. I need to look a little deeper.

Would this be for me? It is not cost effective to replace my current system, however I may do it just because I want to. It is afterall a hobby. But is well would be worth it if you need to build a new NAS system.

I just calculated out my current power consumption and cost. My cost of power changes between winter and summer so I took the worst case of 14 cents per Kw. $6.25 per month or $76.04 per year. To recover the investment it would take 20.6 years if I assume I'm using half the power which would be a generous assumption, but at the same cost of power.

Looks like a nice board, with listed memory ECC support as a bonus.

Power wise, many upgrades are just not cost effective. However, at some point any old system will die. Then it becomes a mater of what do I use then? ("Then" might be 6 months from now, or 2 years. Both of which will have more options to choose from.)

My old media server is still chugging away. Uses probably 10-15 watts, as it was designed to be always on. Other than a twice a month scrub, (which on the media pool does take hours), it is mostly idle. I mean I do use it for media, (video, audio & pictures), as well as a print server & primary location of my scripts & help. But, except when using it, it does nothing serious.

 

[asap2go]

What is wrong with the 7302p?
Sure it's an older core. But aside from that it's probably your best bet in terms of price and features.

 

[Ericloewe]

What is wrong with the 7302p?

Idle power is somewhere between atrocious and highly inconvenient for home/small lab usage. The platforms are also still fairly expensive. When a C3758 can fulfill 99% of user requirements outside of serious PCIe connectivity, a 7302P feels a lot like a huge truck. Sure, they're used by professionals for professional things, but the extra capability is not energetically favorable if you don't need it.

 

[asap2go]

Idle power is somewhere between atrocious and highly inconvenient for home/small lab usage. The platforms are also still fairly expensive. When a C3758 can fulfill 99% of user requirements outside of serious PCIe connectivity, a 7302P feels a lot like a huge truck. Sure, they're used by professionals for professional things, but the extra capability is not energetically favorable if you don't need it.

You can get them used for under 600$ including the motherboard.
Sure they need some energy, but you can disable slots you don't need and downclock or deactivate cores (if the board supports it).
If you want >= 40 PCIe lanes then I don't see many other options.
And if the platform uses 40W more than the latest ones, then that's about 90$ a year.
You can run it for > 10 years to even get close to what a new Epyc or Xeon with similar capabilities cost.
And with a normal Ryzen/Core iX you don't get Quad channel, full(!) ECC support, >= 40 PCIe lanes.
Otherwise I wouldn't be looking at the same problem now :D

 

[Etorix]

The 2 Core is the Intel® Xeon® D-1602 Processor.

Xeon D-1600 is a small refresh of the Broadwell D-1500. The next generation (Skylake) was D-2100, which however reportedly idles above 60 W, that is above what the top-end D-1587 can draw under full load.
The last, and current, generation (Ice Lake) is indeed D-1700/D-2700. D-2700 comes closest to the initial wish list if all lanes and memory channels are exposed—but this comes at price. The lower end of the D-1700 range may be more reasonable price-wise, but comes a bit short of PCIe lanes and memory channels (3, but only 2 exposed in Supermicro boards). Let's say this, possibly with one or two PLX switch cards to have more NVMe connectivity:

X12SDV-4C-SP6F | Motherboards | Products | Supermicro

 

[joeschmuck]

And if the platform uses 40W more than the latest ones, then that's about 90$ a year.

That depends on where you live. Folks overseas in Europe pay quite a lot as I understand it per Kw of power.

There are definitely options in this thread and I like the fact that some of the power hungry CPUs are being identified. I have no idea how much the Ryzen 5 7000 CPU uses while idle, hopefully not much. One day I will need a new system but today isn't it. But I am looking and planning for "just in case".

 

[asap2go]

That depends on where you live. Folks overseas in Europe pay quite a lot as I understand it per Kw of power.

There are definitely options in this thread and I like the fact that some of the power hungry CPUs are being identified. I have no idea how much the Ryzen 5 7000 CPU uses while idle, hopefully not much. One day I will need a new system but today isn't it. But I am looking and planning for "just in case".

The Ryzen 5700 plays quite nicely for me.
I disabled PBO and put it into eco mode so its running very efficiently.
My whole rack consumes about 160W.
Server:
5 HDDs 16TB each,
4 SSDs,
Intel X550-T2
And the 5700 + 128GB DDR4 ECC consuming probably less than half of that.
My Netgear 12 port 10GbE PoE switch, the Router and UPS using the other half.
Is there a command to check power consumption of the CPU?
I would assume the switch uses the most significant amount as it's fully populated and running 4 Access Points off oft PoE.

 

[joeschmuck]

Is there a command to check power consumption of the CPU?

Not that I'm aware of unless your motherboard has some special feature. I had to use a power meter for the entire computer and I know my motherboard and RAM use a lot of my power when the system is at idle. You can probably check you CPU temperature. This would be an indication of power draw but would not tell you exactly how much power was being consumed. I would like to know what this CPU consumes while the TrueNAS system sits relatively idle.

 

[MrMakuc]

The Ryzen 5700 plays quite nicely for me.
I disabled PBO and put it into eco mode so its running very efficiently.
My whole rack consumes about 160W.
Server:
5 HDDs 16TB each,
4 SSDs,
Intel X550-T2
And the 5700 + 128GB DDR4 ECC consuming probably less than half of that.
My Netgear 12 port 10GbE PoE switch, the Router and UPS using the other half.
Is there a command to check power consumption of the CPU?
I would assume the switch uses the most significant amount as it's fully populated and running 4 Access Points off oft PoE.

I'd greatly appreciate it if you could measure the consumption of just your server. I'm from Europe and where I am, 70W is approxiamtely 5 EUR/month. If this includes HDDs, this isn't much. But if you put another 50W atop those 70W to power the actual storage, then is becomes 10 EUR/month, 120 EUR/year. And that's when its doing nothing.

At the moment I'm running i5-13600K on a Gigabyte board (64GB non-ECC memory), when idling (with no storage attached) it uses 16W at the socket. With 3x Seagate Exos X20 20TB SATA HDDs, 2x Samsung 2 TB SATA SSD and 1x Samsung 500GB SATA SSD it consumes 38W at the socket, when idling. I also plan to buy another 2-3 HDDS. The only issue I have is non-ECC memory. Motherboard to support it costs 388 EUR (Asus Pro WS W680-ACE, the non-IPMI version - funny how mATX Asus Pro WS W680M costs even more, despite being smaller and having less features), while my current board cost me 100 EUR.

So now I'm on the lookout for any cheaper alternatives for a new setup (and reporpuse the above hardware as my desktop PC/Workstation).

 

[Davvo]

Most Ryzen unofficially support ECC RAM, depending on pricing and availability it might be useful knowing.

 

[MrMakuc]

Most Ryzen unofficially support ECC RAM, depending on pricing and availability it might be useful knowing.

Thank you, but I already know that I have to mostly pay attention to motherboard support when looking at AMD. My main problem for going with Intel was idling, since apparently AMD wasn't really good at it at the time I was doing my research. Hence why I'm asking about consumption.

 

[Davvo]

That issue has been fixed.

 

[Etorix]

So now I'm on the lookout for any cheaper alternatives for a new setup (and reporpuse the above hardware as my desktop PC/Workstation).

If your use case is all SATA, the unbeaten champions of low idle power are Atom C3000 and Xeon D-1500 boards, so look out for second-hand boards (Supermicro A2SDi and X10SDV)… and be patient.