Is this deliberate in FreeNAS8?

[zenny]

From what I read at http://www.guldmyr.com/blog/freenas-8-0-3-released/ that iXsystems deliberately not including the ZFS release that support deduplication (28) in order to force buy the users their commercial product, TrueNAS? Is that true?

"http://sourceforge.net/projects/freenas/files/FreeNAS-8.0.3/README/download

There is a new FreeNAS version out. But no mentioning of ZFS version 28 (deduplication).

Why is this taking so long? Will that never be included so that people buy TrueNAS instead?

Annoying :p"

Any comments from the developers? I even could not figure out anything about it in README of FreeNAS 8.0.3 Beta releases. Thanks!

 

[warri]

It's just a beta so far. But I think zpool v28 will be included in a later release.
Also check this thread: http://forums.freenas.org/showthread.php?5078-8-0-3-RELEASE-coming-soon

[edit]
The exact same discussion: http://forums.freenas.org/showthread.php?3212-FreeNAS-and-de-dupe-when

 

[louisk]

Yes, they are pure evil. Quick, hate them while you still can!

 

[cubix]

It's all part of a wider conspiracy... I can't speak, they know where I am.

But seriously v28 didn't ship with FreeBSD 8.2 Release which is what the current FreeNAS version is built on.

 

[jgreco]

Topic's been covered before. It's either a stupid or a trolling blog post, can't tell which. I know it's kind of hard for people to fathom, since many features are a matter of a small amount of work. This isn't. Seriously, now, think about it. Introducing a new major revision of ZFS. One that's not even been released in a FreeBSD 8 RELEASE yet. What about all the middleware bits to make it work? To allow it to be configured? To monitor and report? This guy actually thinks that a bug-fix point-release is going to be adding massive new features? Seriously. Lay off the egg-nog. Even after FreeBSD 8.3R is released, it may be some time before we see a FreeNAS release containing all the nifty new features.

This stuff *is* coming. It's a matter of time. It's stupid to play it up as a conspiracy of the FreeNAS developers. They're a limited crew. They are releasing a FREE NAS package. Yes they have a commercial product as well, for which they're no doubt pouring in the vast majority of their efforts. I expect TrueNAS has v28 and dedupe. Because they're paid to make that happen. However, FreeNAS is a free product. I don't expect them to spend time integrating patches for v28 into FreeBSD 8.2R, when that little differentiation between FreeNAS and TrueNAS is a temporary advantage which may be netting them some revenue. You expect them to do it for free, and release it for free? Well, heck, do it yourself, and release YourNAS. But they're not going to base FreeNAS on FreeBSD 8.2R forever. They won't want to keep up with bugfixes and other patches, and sooner or later, the underlying FreeBSD system will be v28 capable. At that point, even if the FreeNAS crew refuses to implement v28 features in FreeNAS, it won't be too hard for end users to use the CLI to configure it. And really, if that happens, FreeNAS will become slowly irrelevant anyways.

So here's what you need to think about.

The FreeNAS guys are handing out free beer. They're also selling snacks in the form of TrueNAS. It's pretty rude to complain that they're not ALSO handing out free snacks under the logic that they're already handing out free beer. These guys need to be able to feed their families. Please think about it that way.

 

[zenny]

Note of Dissent!!

jgreco: "One that's not even been released in a FreeBSD 8 RELEASE yet"

First, if that has not been released, in that case how come TrueNAS has the same features available? That means the new FreeNAS8 crew already worked on it, but refuses to release the feature, primarily with marketing motives. Refer to the table at bottom at http://www.ixsystems.com/ix/storage/titan-truenas-pro

I did see you are ranting the same in each similar thread (http://forums.freenas.org/showthread.php?3212-FreeNAS-and-de-dupe-when&p=13233&viewfull=1#post13233), however the positive way to reply is not to defend someone who tries to behave a wolf in disguise (not in the free and open source world) rather be positive like this gentleman: http://forums.freenas.org/showthread.php?3212-FreeNAS-and-de-dupe-when&p=14588&viewfull=1#post14588

jgreco: "The FreeNAS guys are handing out free beer. They're also selling snacks in the form of TrueNAS."

Actually the FreeNAS8 guys are not handing out free beer. Actually the entire concept of freenas is derived from monowall by Olivier. Don't forget. Still Daisake is maintaining the unofficial version without any restriction which is upgraded to FreeBSD-9-RC2 as 0.7.5 version. And when it comes to posting to the sourceforge, the ixsystems guys deliberately trim down some patches related to that feature (Ref. http://sourceforge.net/apps/phpbb/freenas/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=12457&start=10#p57076)

Thus, it seems deliberate in the ixsystem's part to do so. So people are not so naive to believe what you are trying to convey unless you are
under ixsystem's payroll. Else, you are either naive or clueless of the business model of ixsytems. Period!

Happy New Year 2012!

 

[jgreco]

zenny, first off, do you know whether or not TrueNAS is even based on FreeBSD 8? It *could* be based on FreeBSD 9.

But here's the facts. Supporting a commercial product like TrueNAS requires employees to spend time. Now, v28 is new, whether it's grafted onto FreeBSD8 or built in to FreeBSD9. That's going to mean that there are more problems and complaints to resolve, and many of them will be complex. As a user community, it's rude for the FreeNAS community to expect that the developers are going to provide us with that support. They provide a version with basic features and no other restrictions. You want v28? Go get the damn v28 patches and install it yourself. This is BSD-licensed stuff. Remember what copy center means. You don't like how iXsystems runs the show? Fork it and try it yourself.

Now, as for m0n0wall, no, the entire concept of FreeNAS isn't derived from m0n0wall, though the idea for an appliance version of FreeBSD is similar. But let me fill you in on a little secret here: FreeNAS is based on NanoBSD, which is a reimplementation of PicoBSD, which M0n0wall was originally based on. PicoBSD was a great idea: a version of FreeBSD that could run off a floppy. But that idea came from somewhere. And ... it came from me. Many years ago, I took some commercial expertise and applied it to FreeBSD. I stripped a FreeBSD system to the bones, and created a custom userland, with the goal of making it small enough to fit on a floppy or a boot ROM. The point was to allow what the commercial world now calls "thin clients": it allowed an Xserver to run on a PC that had no hard disk at all. PicoBSD took MY work, generalized it, and released PicoBSD.

So don't YOU tell me "Don't forget." I've been doing this kind of stuff with FreeBSD longer than pretty much anyone, and projects like m0n0wall can be traced back to my works. Don't YOU forget that, hey?

Now, here's my little bit of experience to impart to you: that the FreeNAS guys have taken some personal risk to compete in a hyper-competitive market with a relatively small company. There is ZERO requirement that they offer a free product at all. A free product can be a nightmare of a time suck, the Linux world is littered with the bones of companies that tried the wrong mix and went bankrupt. Yet there are some benefits to supporting a free product: for example, it can be a great way to help shape the parts of your system that you feel are sound and/or core. So what *I* see is that iXsystems has released a version of their product that they expect won't find them losing many hours trying to support; the features in FreeNAS are pretty much expected to be straightforward and solid. Bugs found in FreeNAS are generally things that Really need to be fixed. It's a sensible strategy. It's less restrictive than, for example, Nexenta's, which limits the amount of storage that can be managed.

So learn this, and learn this well: it's free software. No one *owes* you it, or *owes* you any given features. If you don't like what's offered, go elsewhere, or take a snapshot and go roll your own release, and find out for yourself what supporting it is like.

 

[zenny]

jgreco: "do you know whether or not TrueNAS is even based on FreeBSD 8? It *could* be based on FreeBSD 9."

I believe you are yet to visit this page (http://www.ixsystems.com/ix/storage/titan-truenas) where there is a mention with a blue icon which categorically states "FreeNAS 8 for enterprise"! (The icon is here: http://www.ixsystems.com/images/catalog/storage/nas/truenas/freenas_fortheenterprise_button.png)

jgreco: "Now, as for m0n0wall, no, the entire concept of FreeNAS isn't derived from m0n0wall, though the idea for an appliance version of FreeBSD is similar."

Wrong, the world knows that freenas is the derivative of freenas from Olivier which was originally based on the webgui from monowall. The only thing the Freenas 8 differs from 7 is that the webgui has been replaced with a python-based django and uses NanoBSD scripts to create the image with some tweaks to restrict zfs volumes not to get mounted to not other directory than /mnt and also some built in packages for services like msyslog for remote syslogging and so on.

Still Daisake is distributing a non-polluted and unrestricted version of 0.7.5.

jgreco: "But that idea came from somewhere. And ... it came from me."

Glad to know about that and it is good news! However, your post is full of eulogy and prominence of "I" factor.

jgreco: "I've been doing this kind of stuff with FreeBSD longer than pretty much anyone, and projects like m0n0wall can be traced back to my works."

I do smell ego on your part with the above claim. Don't forget that there are many people who do not want to be noticed yet contributing silently to the development of free and open source software, but I can't be so much eulogistic like you!

jgreco: "No one *owes* you it, or *owes* you any given features. If you don't like what's offered, go elsewhere, or take a snapshot and go roll your own release, and find out for yourself what supporting it is like."

There is no reason to reinvent the wheel again and again, particularly in the free and open source world. Ultimately FreeNAS is nothing mere than a wrapper script to the work done by pjd. I do not use it personally because I am comfortable with command line and less wrapper scripts produce less bugs. Yet I keep on evaluating when I need to provide support to others.

And nobody needs prescription to use or abandon a free and open source project, even proprietary ones. When it does not fit, the community abandons without anyone's prescription. e.g. minix, opensolaris after Oracle's acquisition among others.

Imp: : I do not feel comfortable to continue discussing this issue further because the community, not only me, smelled rat with this approach. If you are a part of the community, you have to support what the community wishes from a free and open source project. If not, you have to proudly claim that you are on ixsystem's payroll.

Above all, none of your posts did reply nor justify to the community's concern of selective exclusion of feature in FreeNAS compared to TrueNAS!

 

[zenny]

Worth Reading: https://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9222930/IT_managers_are_aloof_insular_says_psychologist
QUOTE: "IT managers see themselves as "reigning supreme," says Blair.