Home Server Build - Mixing HDD RPM

[Davvo]

Do I need SLOG?

Some insights into SLOG/ZIL with ZFS on FreeNAS

What is the ZIL? POSIX provides a facility for the system or an application to make sure that data requested to be written is actually committed to stable storage: a synchronous write request. Upon completion of a sync write request, the underlying filesystem is supposed to guarantee that a...

www.truenas.com

Do I need more RAM?

Only if you foresee heavy VM loads.

I'll see how the current 2.5 Realtek works and possibly switch to something more tested soon :)

Just be aware that realtek's NIC are prone to issues.

I get bombarded with new ideas and potential solutions to problems (sometimes with no explanation and just phrases "this is crap" and "that is crap").

Sometimes it gets tiring to write the same things every time, please consider those "this is crap" as an invite to do more research on the forum if you want more Infos (or just wait for a less burnout user).

As a side note I once read that NAS over WI-FI is a bad idea (secuty issues?).

 

[Delgon]

xD
Thanks for the answers but those were more of a questions to myself in 6-12 months :)

I planned most things as I thought would be ok. But with all those, SLOG, RAM, Encoding, and so on, I'll see myself if my use case really needs them or I should swap/upgrade.
Like I said, in regards to Encoding, I'm not a fan of Hardware encoding quality :P If I see problems with the current proper software x264 on plex, I might consider putting something there but it would be another expense :P

I know answering the same thing might be frustrating xD but it kinda took me by surprise as the only thing in the post was "kinda everything is crap, why are you doing it" which did not really give me anything to hold onto. And problems with Realtek was a first to me even tho I read quite a bit before posting just to be sure I get as much knowledge and everything myself and hopefully ask for potential pointers and final doubts here.

 

[Davvo]

The consensus here is that if you are building something you should do the proper way (usually server-grade hardware) as that saves you money and trouble in the long run.
Most of the long-time users here either work or worked in IT, which probably influenced it.

Please do consider why you get a response like that, it's usually not (just?) a politeness issue. Besides, I didn't really see a post like that.

Anyway, have fun!

 

[Delgon]

Well, from what I can see, the most controversial here was NIC with the mobo that I have, which I can just add 10GbE NIC as a much cheaper and better option IMO (which solves everything) compared to recommended AsRock which gives me worse PCIe options BUT gives integrated graphics and management ports, which I never used so right now they have kinda 0 value to me as I can just change bios settings or whatever by plugging in the monitor and GT 710 for a few minutes if needed? I just did not understand why paying 3-4x more for the board just so it has this BMC/10GbE is so much more worth compared to what I currently have. Maybe getting worse PCIe but those 2 things with that kind of price is really better but I did not see any argument for it.

I also went with AMD for much better performance/W, this is a concern for me too as old v1-v4 CPUs eat the electricity like there is no tomorrow.

 

[Davvo]

Server-grade hardware lasts longer.
Plus, if you follow the reccomendation guide you can use the years of experience most of the users here have.
As I said, take a look at some supermicro server boards. If you are interested you can find plenty used for a great price.

Besides, you really don't need such a powerful CPU for your use case.

 

[Delgon]

Yep, I read it.
There are problems with a few things from where I look at it tho.
Longevity/space:
Server hardware has better longevity. True but you either spend an insane amount on the new stuff (which I do not have sorry) or go for 8 years old stuff for like v1-v4 era in which case the longevity argument kinda loses sense to me as it is already used a lot of its lifespan?
Those motherboards for example are also made to be used inside server chassis with high airflow. So server chassis is needed which would make it very loud in most cases and just some server laying on the floor is a bad solution in itself (remember not everyone has a rack or separate room to put the stuff in). It would also kinda make it miserable to sleep with it in the same room or adjacent room. They would cook in normal cases due to the requirement for airflow. The AsRock Rack that people recommend also looks like it would need plenty of airflow and would add another ~500-600$ (that board cost here)

Performance:
If we go v1-v4 era, the performance is really bad compared to this CPU and as I said, I will be using it, encoding x264/x265 and compression. Even with this CPU, encoding a series of Anime, for example, ~4h in length in total might take like 1-2 days using good settings. I have a friend with 2 of 2698v3. Those are either within 5% difference or noticeably slower (ye, 32c/64t in total of old server intel) compared to the AMD I chose in x264/x265 performance and consume around 2-3x more power while idle or under load. The huge difference in power consumption and performance alone can make like 300$ a year difference in power alone.

There is 1 issue with the current build from what I can see people are most pointing out. MoBo. The arguments are:
1. It is a consumer mobo so it will die - I'm not entirely sure if a new decent consumer motherboard will die faster than 8 years old server motherboard, we will see. Problem is that Old intels are slow and super power hungry and new intel/amd server grade is very expensive - would also require more costs in CPU and RAM
2. It has Realtek NIC - If that is really the problem and it does not work properly, I can just add 1GbE Intel NIC for 5$, problem solved?

Other than that:
PSU: Good brand
ECC: Yep
Boot Drives: Ok
SAS HBA: Yep
Array Drives: Ok
Power Efficiency: Yep

 

[DigitalMinimalist]

It will work and if you are happy with what you have… all good

You asked for recommendations and CPU could be smaller/cheaper, e.g. 5700X and Mainboard could be better.

100% agree to not necessarily use 8+ years old CPUs as they are usually more power hungry (I currently sell an E5 2630L rig, because of that).
As the new Alder Lake CPUs support ECC, but W680 mainboards are expensive and hard to get, AM4 is a reasonable choice.

My X470D4U was a used one, but new it‘s 250$ - airflow requirements identical to any other consumer board.
If Consumer: Alternative x570 (PCIe lanes) with Intel NIC , but doesn’t really matter with separate NIC.

Enjoy to fiddle around with your new server

 

[danb35]

Servers are not necessarily big, loud, hot, or expensive, even when bought new. For example, the HPE MicroServer Gen10 Plus is quiet, compact, draws about 35 watts at idle, and costs US$800 new for the base model. It won't fit your needs as it only has four bays, but it's one I have personal experience with. In the HPE line, the Proliant ML30 Gen10+ looks like it might do for you. Prefer Dell? The PowerEdge T340 has eight drive bays, and starts at US$1019. Lenovo? The ThinkSystem ST250 has eight bays as well, and is also around US$1000. All of these are brand new, priced directly from the manufacturer, and in tower chassis that will be much quieter than rack gear. Or if you want to know for sure it will work with TrueNAS, the Mini XL + is a bit more, but again has those eight bays.

Whether these fit your budget is, of course, something only you know, and they're certainly more expensive than "whatever you happen to have laying around." But I don't think they can reasonably be characterized as costing an "insane amount."

 

[Delgon]

Those are nice options, the HPE MicroServer Gen10 Plus (the 8GB + G5420) is around 800$ (E-2224 + 16gb is around 1250$) here and the T340 (16GB with E-2224) are around 1500$. Not that unreasonable but still a little too much for me to spend that instead of using what I have, at least for me and both of those might not meet my performance requirement for additional stuff I want to do on that machine as I mentioned.
Mini XL+ would be around 2200$ Including taxes and shipping xD
Unfortunately, prices here are usually higher and also have 23% VAT which as you can see, pushes the prices quite a bit higher than what you might think they would cost.
The server/enterprise market here is rather bad. I had to import the HBA from china for 45$ (They usually do not add tariffs and taxes to those from china) as the cheapest equivalent of that SAS or similar here costs like 120$ (I would have to flash IT on those) or 150$ for those that are already flashed or are IT by default.
Asrock x570 is around 500-600$ new, x470 is around 350+ and there are no used ones on the market here xD
For the CPUs, I have 3900 or 5800x3d as options (do not want to buy another cpu). 5800X3D is more power efficient than 3900 so I went with this one for the build. It is not like I bought it specifically for this build, I have it (and the other one) as I use them to test my software as I mentioned before too. I need different architectures and generations as I write software that is trying to maximize performance on many of them using all instructions and need it to measure real-life performance. Different instructions, e-cores (12th gen), different amount of cache, cores per ccx (amd, zen2, zen3) with different real-life performances with SSE, AVX2, and (V)AES. This is why I also said that NAS will go down a few times a month as I still need the CPU for the tests.
When I was choosing mobo for the 2nd CPU I went with one that I knew supported ECC as I was also thinking about potential usage as a NAS. I might have to think if I want to spend 350-500$ on the AsRock Rack MoBo just for potential components difference and NIC (but worse PCIe configuration).

 

[ChrisRJ]

For ECC you should just double-check what exactly "supported" means. There have been cases in the past, esp. with AMD, where the board would work (i.e. not crash) with ECC modules plugged in, but nothing more was provided. In other words, absolutely no additional protection was provided relative to using plain, non-ECC modules.

 

[Delgon]

For ECC you should just double-check what exactly "supported" means. There have been cases in the past, esp. with AMD, where the board would work (i.e. not crash) with ECC modules plugged in, but nothing more was provided. In other words, absolutely no additional protection was provided relative to using plain, non-ECC modules.

Yes, I have 2 boards on which I tested it. According to OS (and BIOS) settings, it should work and shows all the signs that it is, like AIDA, memtest, dmidecode, journalctl dumps. The Gigabyte I have it in right now shows the same info in the same way as things are shown on some Certified WS from Asus or AsRock Rack that I could find from other people on the internet and also the same way in the case of my friends xeons. This is the closest I can get to "It works" :P
The MSI board does not show those and reports like awny normal usual non-ECC memory.
There is no REAL way of knowing it regardless if it is certified or not as reporting registers are missing on any consumer AMD boards (even if there is an error, you will never know if it was corrected or even occurred)


I'll definitely search for a better quality NIC. Probably something like I210 (or equivalent) for 1GbE. If I can get my hands on a proper 10GbE used card here it might also be a good idea but I'll have to hunt for it for some time probably.

 

[DigitalMinimalist]

Which country are you located?

 

[Delgon]

Which country are you located?

I'm from Poland.

 

[DigitalMinimalist]

I'm from Poland.

Why not ordering from Germany? Ebay.de, forums, etc…

I‘m German, but live in Portugal and usually order or buy my stuff outside Portugal (EU - no import taxes)

 

[Davvo]

Germany has a few very good eBay sellers.

 

[DigitalMinimalist]

HP Intel 560FLR 2x 10GbE X520-DA2 SFP+ Network Flexible LOM Controller Adapter 6 | eBay

Modell: 560FLR SFP+. Model: 560FLR SFP+. Host Bus: HP-LOM. Zahlen sie nur für die Komponenten die sie wirklich brauchen! Arista DCS-7050T-64 48x 10GbE + 4x QSFP+ 40GbE Swi. Interface: 2x SFP+ 10 Gb.

www.ebay.de

Intel X520-DA2 Version from HP for 60€ - probably 70€ with shipping… professional seller

 

[Delgon]

HP Intel 560FLR 2x 10GbE X520-DA2 SFP+ Network Flexible LOM Controller Adapter 6 | eBay

Modell: 560FLR SFP+. Model: 560FLR SFP+. Host Bus: HP-LOM. Zahlen sie nur für die Komponenten die sie wirklich brauchen! Arista DCS-7050T-64 48x 10GbE + 4x QSFP+ 40GbE Swi. Interface: 2x SFP+ 10 Gb.

www.ebay.de

Intel X520-DA2 Version from HP for 60€ - probably 70€ with shipping… professional seller

Hmm, 81€
Do you have any experience with SFP to RJ45 adapters? Are they any good? With this card I would also need to use one

If SFP adapters are bad, how about this one which would be 98€ with shipping included

https://www.ebay.de/itm/28493509547...W/PO7NrVMUz39B0C2XoKM36v5x|tkp:Bk9SR-a9o63bYA

Or this from the seller you mentioned for 71 total

https://www.ebay.de/itm/224574324620?epid=12010520190&hash=item3449ac3f8c:g:6pMAAOSwLRpjCIWm

 

[Delgon]

Ok, I think I'll go with X540-T2 as copper is the only thing that is used in the house right now. I'll order when I make it and check how all the pools are working and everything.
I also will add 2x1TB (Mirrored) SATA SSD for Dockers and VMs.

After some time, if I get some more cash on my hands I'll think if getting MoBo switched or adding RAM would benefit me more. MoBo might be a good upgrade if no more RAM is needed. That is for later tho xD