Home environment with FreeNAS

[Naggert]

Hi there

Intro:

First of all, this is just for testing purpose. I'm trying to learn and I do that best, by making the actual, physical setup :)
I've been setting up a system at home and thought I might use FreeNAS - up to the point where I read this guide from Cyberjock:
http://forums.freenas.org/index.php...ning-vdev-zpool-zil-and-l2arc-for-noobs.7775/

At this point I'm no longer sure FreeNAS is a viable solution for my setup. It seems the chance of data loss is very high if the system isnt maintained 100% correctly.
Is everything as sinister as he makes it sound?

If I may describe my environment and ask a few questions, perhaps you guys can answer a question or two? Would be apprecitated :)

Home setup:
I bought a HP prolient Microserver and installed ESXI on it. I can access it from my GamingPC using vSphere.
I've installed disks and made the storage.
Clueless on the next step

I would like the following features to run on it:
IMDB + Sickbeard - just to play around with RSS feeds
XBMC + Apple TV / Amazone Fire TV, to test streaming to a television
FileZilla to test how FTP works

FreeNAS:

• As I understand it, I should be able to install FreeNAS as a VM on the microserver and manage it from vSphere?
• Can it actually run on a HP proliant microserver gen7? It has 4GB ram in total. And jgreco writes: 8GB is the floor, the minimum.
• From there it seems like FreeNAS should work as the OS. Would I be able to manage sabnzbd, sickbeard etc from there? (they're browser dependent)
• Is the chance of data loss as large as Cyberjock makes it seem? Still, it's just for testing and there wont be any actual data on the system. I just dont want to learn how to make an unstable system with great chance of data loss
• I have 2 disks in it. A 4TB for data and an old 250 for OS, systems, programs etc. Seems like the best choice, right?
• Are there better alternatives if I want to test a "home theatre invironment"? Maybe just a VM running Windows Home Server 2011?

There seems to be mixed opinions on whats correct and whats not.
http://forums.freenas.org/index.php...nas-in-production-as-a-virtual-machine.12484/
Says: Please do not run FreeNAS in production as a Virtual Machine!

Other places it's recommended to run FreeNAS on ESXI

I know it's a huge wall of text, but I'm very curious and like to test this. Still I'm totally new and green to the whole virtulization environment.
Thank you in Advance
Naggert

 

[Scareh]

first of all:
http://forums.freenas.org/index.php...nas-in-production-as-a-virtual-machine.12484/
read that...

freenas is supposed to be installed on bare metal, not in a virtual environment.
Just install freenas on a usb stick, boot the server from the usb stick and you're good to go.

 

[Naggert]

Thanks on the advice on the USB. I'll try that - running ESXI that way

As you can see from my post, I have already read the link you gave (I even linked it in my own post and quoted the original auther). It didn't really answer all my questions tho

 

[gpsguy]

You might want to read jgreco's other message Absolutely must virtualize FreeaNAS. Note: your Gen 7 Microserver doesn't support PCI-Passthrough, so you'll be crippled by not being able to do virtulization correctly.

Though I run FreeNAS on bare metal, I also have a N54L running ESXi 5.1. I put 16Gb of ECC RAM in mine.

 

[cyberjock]

What you are doing is dangerous... crazy dangerous. Yes, 8GB of RAM is the minimum without potential data-loss problems.

Without VT-d, you are just ASKING for the ZFS gods to eat your data.

Frankly, you're better off using whatever OS you are familiar with than the big mistake you are trying to do right now.

 

[joelmusicman]

Well, really, from what you're describing that you want to do, there is NO NEED to run ESXi.

You can do all of that from plain ol' FreeNAS. Definitely upgrade the RAM, ditch the 250gb drive (FreeNAS boots from USB stick, and has no need for an OS drive), and throw in 3 more 4tb drives to setup a proper zpool.

 

[gpsguy]

If FreeNAS is the only thing the OP wants to use on his Microserver, then yes, upgrade it to 8/16Gb of RAM and install FreeNAS on bare metal.

OTOH, he might be running a home lab and wants to be able to test other OS'. If that's the case and he's already said "Still, it's just for testing and there wont be any actual data on the system." - then I'd say, let him do it (but bump up the RAM first). A number of FreeNAS users do testin with ESXi and/or VMware Player/Workstation.

Yes, there may be things he won't be able to do, but he can learn FreeNAS. If he likes what he sees - then he can either repurpose his Microserver or build/buy another server.

 

[cyberjock]

Testing while using a configuration that isn't reliable.. isn't logical. You need the problems to be something you'd encounter in the real world.. One reason why virtualization *can* suck is that it can introduce new problems you'll never see in the real world.

So no, not sure I'd buy that even for testing you'd want to do it. Even then you shouldn't be considering it without VT-d, which I'm pretty sure that hardware doesn't do.

 

[jgreco]

The ProLiant MicroServer gen7's are quite nice in many ways, small, low power, etc. I have an N36L here that I abuse for VM backups and it sucks it down at about half a gigabit.

I strongly discourage you from running ESXi and then a FreeNAS VM, though.

We assume people want to run FreeNAS for ZFS, which has numerous data security benefits. There are numerous formulas for doing this safely, but there are many more that range from mildly risky to batshit-crazy-you're-gonna-lose-your-data dangerous.

Since running a risky configuration could easily negate the data security feartures of ZFS, we assume you don't ACTUALLY want to do that, and we actively guide you away from it.

The specific concern with the MicroServer would be that you'd need to either use RDM or virtual disks. In both cases we have seen examples of catastrophic losses when people were not aware that hardware was failing, things failed, and then all hell broke loose. My best guess is that the disk I/O subsystem for ESXi does really bad things ("hangs up", etc) leaving your pool damaged and unimportable.

It WILL WORK JUST FINE ... right until it doesn't. If you are putting nothing of value on it, by all means, go right ahead and do it. But if you value your data, please be aware: failures can cause it to shred your pool.

 

[joelmusicman]

gpsguy: You're right, he did say that it was just for testing purposes, but the thrust of his questioning implied that he's looking to put the same setup into production.

OP: *TEST* away! You really don't need anyone's permission anyway. I apologize for ganging up with the others. :)

At this point I'm no longer sure FreeNAS is a viable solution for my setup. It seems the chance of data loss is very high if the system isnt maintained 100% correctly.
Is everything as sinister as he makes it sound?

FreeNAS is actually more reliable than most other solutions when properly installed & configured. That generally means: 8GB+ ECC, bare metal install, periodic scrubs and SMART tests, and now RAIDZ2.

Advanced users (including CyberJock himself I believe) introduce ESXi into the equation with the following precautions:

• IBM M1015 or similar RAID controller running IT firmware
• VT-D capable processor (generally Xeons only)

These steps, along with careful configuration, present the controller and attached HDDs directly to FreeNAS, without ESXi in the way. This way, if something goes wrong with ESXi, you could boot from a USB thumb drive directly into FreeNAS.

I would like the following features to run on it:
IMDB + Sickbeard - just to play around with RSS feeds
XBMC + Apple TV / Amazone Fire TV, to test streaming to a television
FileZilla to test how FTP works

Like I said earlier, all of this can be accomplished from bare FreeNAS. And quite a lot of other stuff too using plugins and jails. The only real exception is probably XBMC on the FreeNAS box itself. Me personally, I don't want my loudish storage server in the living room. I use the $40 Raspberry Pi running XBMC to play videos (and FreeNAS is running a mySQL service to house the XBMC metadata too!).

All the services I'm running on my bare metal FreeNAS box with a cheap G3220 processor:

• Crashplan
• OwnCloud
• Transmission
• Sickbeard
• CouchPotato
• Headphones
• Calibre server
• Musicbrainz server (work in progress)
• XBMC mySQL

I'm probably forgetting something too. I wasn't happy with Plex performance, but I'm gonna see if more memory can fix it.

• As I understand it, I should be able to install FreeNAS as a VM on the microserver and manage it from vSphere?
• Can it actually run on a HP proliant microserver gen7? It has 4GB ram in total. And jgreco writes: 8GB is the floor, the minimum.
• From there it seems like FreeNAS should work as the OS. Would I be able to manage sabnzbd, sickbeard etc from there? (they're browser dependent)
• Is the chance of data loss as large as Cyberjock makes it seem? Still, it's just for testing and there wont be any actual data on the system. I just dont want to learn how to make an unstable system with great chance of data loss
• I have 2 disks in it. A 4TB for data and an old 250 for OS, systems, programs etc. Seems like the best choice, right?
• Are there better alternatives if I want to test a "home theatre invironment"? Maybe just a VM running Windows Home Server 2011?

There seems to be mixed opinions on whats correct and whats not.

1. In theory, yes, but you'd need to get a processor capable of PCI passthrough (AMD-Vi), and I'm not sure if the Turion is. You'd also probably need a different RAID controller (IBM M1015 or similar).
2. Sure. Just upgrade to 8gb and you're golden.
3. Yes, those services can run on FreeNAS. Just so we're clear, FreeNAS itself is configured from web interface on a different PC. The local console can only do basic setup of networking, etc.
4. The main selling point for FreeNAS is the data protection features, which would be rendered useless by ESXi without PCI passthrough.
5. Optimal for FreeNAS: 4-5 4tb drives at RAIDZ2. No OS drive needed. DVD drive is unneeded as well, so extra bay can house a HDD.
6. WHS's file system is pretty terrible from what I've heard, though I have no experience with it.

 

[jgreco]

That was an awesome answer, joelmusicman.

 

[Naggert]

Wow, so much information to read through. Thank you!

OP: *TEST* away! You really don't need anyone's permission anyway. I apologize for ganging up with the others. :)

No worries, please "gang up" as long as I get an honest answer. All of you have far more experience than I, on this subject.

What you are doing is dangerous... crazy dangerous.
Without VT-d, you are just ASKING for the ZFS gods to eat your data.

I strongly discourage you from running ESXi and then a FreeNAS VM, though.

Well, really, from what you're describing that you want to do, there is NO NEED to run ESXi.

I will definitely not be running FreeNAS as on ESXI - thank you! There's no need to learn something wrong at this point.
At the point were I wrote the first point I was very, very new to the actual setup and the knowledge you guys show here. I mean, I'm sitting here at work, looking at our vSphere datacenter with 12 hosts and 362 virtual machines - never really understood the backbone.

Managing some of this from home actually gave a glimpse of how it's supposed to work. Just

I actually ended up, just installing Windows7 on ESXI. That way I can test the programs on a platform that I know.

Found, what appears to be, a pretty good guide on the setup of the 2nd half
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/589381-SABNZBD-Sickbeard-amp-Couchpotato-Guide

Once again, thank you

 

[joelmusicman]

I mean, I'm sitting here at work, looking at our vSphere datacenter with 12 hosts and 362 virtual machines - never really understood the backbone.

Even in the corporate environment, storage is generally separate from the VM hosts. That's what 40Gb/s Fiber Channel/Infiniband high speed networks are for. :)