Hmmm Maybe: Dell R510

[Stuartbe]

Hello all I am hoping for some help.

I have found this specification online. Not a new server it goes without saying.
These are the specifications.

Dell PowerEdge R510 - 8 x 3.5" (Configure-To-Order)
Processor #1: 2.40 GHz Hex-Core Xeon (E5645) - 5.86 GT/12MB +...
Processor #2: 2.40 GHz Hex-Core Xeon (E5645) - 5.86 GT/12MB +...
Memory: 64GB - (8 x 8GB) DDR3 ECC Reg +£205.00
Hard Drive #1: Empty 3.5" Caddy/Tray + £5.99
Hard Drive #2: Empty 3.5" Caddy/Tray + £5.99
Hard Drive #3: Empty 3.5" Caddy/Tray + £5.99
Hard Drive #4: Empty 3.5" Caddy/Tray + £5.99
Hard Drive #5: Empty 3.5" Caddy/Tray + £5.99
Hard Drive #6: Empty 3.5" Caddy/Tray + £5.99
Hard Drive #7: Empty 3.5" Caddy/Tray + £5.99
Hard Drive #8: Empty 3.5" Caddy/Tray + £5.99
Power Supply: Dual PSU + £15.00
Optical Drive: DVD/ROM Drive + £12.00
iDRAC6: No iDRAC6 + £0.00
RAID: PERC H700 RAID 512MB BBWC+ £79.99
PCIe Card #1 (FH): Dual Port 4GB Fibre Channel HBA (QLE2462) - £29.99
Power Cable: No Power Cables + £0.00
Bezel: Yes £29.99

Looking at the controller and backplane I think it will support a 4TB SATA HDD.
However when I select a 4TB drive on the list I get " 4TB - Dual Port 6GBPs - SAS 3.5" - 7.2K RPM + "
I am not sure if this referrers to a caddy that uses two slots or a different backplane configuration.
It is the " Dual Port " part that I do not understand.
I intend to fully populate the system with 4TB WD red drives.
There was also the option on the list of an " iDRAC6 Express & Enterprise (0K869T) "
I am not sure what this refers to. This is a link to the base system...............................................
http://www.bargainhardware.co.uk/dell-poweredge-r510-8-x-3-5-configure-to-order/
The current price is around £600 so if this system fits the bill I will be very happy.

If anyone could offer me any help or assistance I would be most grateful.

Many Thanks. :)

Stuart.

 

[garm]

I believe the PERC is a RAID card that you can’t repurposed as a SAS HBA, so it’s really unsuited for ZFS. Not giving ZFS direct access to your drives will spell disaster.

 

[Stuartbe]

It does list " PCIe Card #1 (FH) " as an option. Would I be able to use the free slot to install a compatible controller card ?

 

[jgreco]

It does list " PCIe Card #1 (FH) " as an option. Would I be able to use the free slot to install a compatible controller card ?

The PERC H700 (internal) is a standard controller for the R510. Dell creates a lot of custom cables. In the 12xLFF version of the R510, the SFF-8087 cables are a sharp right angle affair, and are only long enough to reach to the internal controller slot, so they'd be near impossible to replace. I don't recall what the 8xLFF version does, but I think it is reasonable to caution you that it is likely that you cannot use the general PCIe slots for HBA's for the front panel drives. That's the bad news.

The good news is that you can remove the battery and PERC H700 fairly easily. It is just an H700 with the plate removed. You're in luck, there's one on the bench that's been fitted for FreeNAS, AND I was nonlazy enough to haul my butt out of chair...

https://extranet.www.sol.net/files/freenas/misc/r510.jpg

So if you look at that, on the left at the backplane, you can see two right-angle SFF-8087 cables, and trace them easily to the down-angle SFF on the controller. They needed the cable to make a 180' turn there so it's a 90' connector and then just bent cable. There's NO extra cable, so your controller has to set in the internal storage PCIe slot, which means it has to be one of the cards that's designed for it, which means a particular size and top egress connectors. Fortunately, the Dell PERC H310 can be crossflashed to an LSI 9211-8i and when you remove the backplate it fits GREAT. That's an H310 in the picture there.

But. There's other crap-to-know. At least on the 12-drive variant, Dell has disabled the internal SATA mainboard ports, and the "internal" USB is inconveniently located on the SAS backplate. It's likely that something like a BR10i or whatever the Dell variant of that is could be added to the system to provide a port for an SSD to boot. Otherwise you might be limited to jerking around with downgrading BIOS'es (some earlier BIOS did not have the SATA port disable) or other jankiness. The 8-bay version may be somewhat different.

These systems idle around 200W and spin up as high as 350W from what we've observed. Not bad gear overall.

However when I select a 4TB drive on the list I get " 4TB - Dual Port 6GBPs - SAS 3.5" - 7.2K RPM + "
I am not sure if this referrers to a caddy that uses two slots or a different backplane configuration.
It is the " Dual Port " part that I do not understand.

SAS drives can have multiple paths to them. Please see https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...-sas-sy-a-primer-on-basic-sas-and-sata.26145/

It is probably not too useful for the average NAS. The cheaper option for drives is often to buy SATA drives designed for NAS.

 

[Eniqmatic]

Just to confirm what jgreco has written, I have one of these and you can replace the H700 (or PERC6/i) with a H310/H200 (only difference is the connector placement) cross-flashed to IT mode. These are dead cheap now and work well as above.

With regards to the internal SATA ports on the 8-bay version, they are not disabled and you can control them in the BIOS, however the only issue is getting power for them, as there are no places to pick up power, other than the CD drive which has a proprietary cable. I'm sure there is a way around this, I never looked into it much as I wasn't that bothered, more curiosity!

EDIT: Regarding the iDRAC, the "Enterprise" addition will give you the remote management port that will allow you to administer the system even when the server is powered down and allow you to see other things like system temperatures and allow you to remote console to it that is independent of the OS. I would pick one up on eBay depending on how much they are asking for it. Really useful to have though.

 

[jgreco]

@Eniqmatic makes a good point about the internal power situation. The 12xLFF unit comes with two internal 2.5" bays that are wired from the backplane with a proprietary SAS+power cable, so if you don't mind losing one of those, you can probably modify a SATA power Y and tap off of that.

Alternatively you could use something like a

http://www.addonics.com/products/ad3m2spx4.php

to provide mount/power for two internal gumstick SATA SSD's *and* a PCIe gumstick for L2ARC.

 

[Eniqmatic]

@Eniqmatic makes a good point about the internal power situation. The 12xLFF unit comes with two internal 2.5" bays that are wired from the backplane with a proprietary SAS+power cable, so if you don't mind losing one of those, you can probably modify a SATA power Y and tap off of that.

Alternatively you could use something like a

http://www.addonics.com/products/ad3m2spx4.php

to provide mount/power for two internal gumstick SATA SSD's *and* a PCIe gumstick for L2ARC.

I believe there is a Dell cable somewhere that you can get if you search hard enough, I have seen it before, but its eye watering how expensive it is for a cable...

That could be a nice solution, I think modifying a cable might be nice too depending. I need to look inside mine again as I would like to chuck in an SSD connected to the internal SATA ports!

 

[jgreco]

It's kind of offensive to have to waste a PCIe slot on that, but if it turns out that you could use an L2ARC, you'd need the PCIe M.2 anyways, and two free gumstick SATA's along for the ride isn't bad.

 

[Eniqmatic]

There was also the option on the list of an " iDRAC6 Express & Enterprise (0K869T) "
I am not sure what this refers to. This is a link to the base system...............................................
Stuart.

Just looked on the website, only £24 for the iDRAC 6, VERY worth it at that. I use the DRAC all the time on mine, so handy in a pinch.

 

[Stuartbe]

Hello All.

Thank you very much for the information. Thinking about what you have said, if there are marked points on the backplane for 5v and 12v I am sure I could terminate a power cable on them. My background is electronic engineering so I hope I can find a way.

I am however a little worried having heard the word " proprietary " and know exactly what you refer to. A cable may just carry a few voltage rails but if you cant terminate them with the right connector you have had it.

The big question is....... Is this worth the £680 or $935.79 they are charging for it ? I'm not far of buying a premade new machine at that price.

I am not sure where to go from here.

Thank you so much to everyone who has gone to the trouble to find this information for me. I very much appreciate it :):)

 

[Eniqmatic]

Hello All.

Thank you very much for the information. Thinking about what you have said, if there are marked points on the backplane for 5v and 12v I am sure I could terminate a power cable one them. My background is electronic engineering so I hope I can find a way.

I am however a little worried having heard the word " proprietary " and know exactly what you refer to. A cable may just carry a few voltage rails but if you cant terminate them with the right connector you have had it.

The big question is....... Is this worth the £680 or $935.79 they are charging for it ? I'm not far of buying a premade new machine at that price.

I am not sure where to go from here.

Thank you so much to everyone who has gone to the trouble to find this information for me. I very much appreciate it :):)

You will save £75 off the price not getting the H700 which won't be of use to you anyways.

However, I think you can replace it with a H310, if you are getting an 8-Bay, you should have much more room between the top of the backplane and the lid/chassis. I have an 8-Bay version, I could try get pictures for you next couple of days if that would help you. That would mean the cable situation wouldn't be an issue for you.

 

[Stuartbe]

Thank you Eniqmatic, that would be very helpful and much appreciated :)

 

[Eniqmatic]

https://imgur.com/a/dVTQJ

Here is a zoomed image of a photo I already had (sorry its not very good), you can see there is a bit of space between the top of the backplane and the lid, where the optical drive space is. Admittedly these are right angled connectors, but you might be able to get another on. Also this RAID card that is installed at the time of this photo is a PERC6/i so ignore the connections on the other end!

Hopefully that helps even a tiny bit!

 

[wblock]

Be sure to look at the photos of a replacement card before buying. My H310 has the connectors on the end, and my H200 has them on the top.

 

[jgreco]

Oh. Crap, that's an issue, that might actually be an H200 in there. There's a bunch of both floating around the shop.

 

[jgreco]

Hello All.

Thank you very much for the information. Thinking about what you have said, if there are marked points on the backplane for 5v and 12v I am sure I could terminate a power cable on them. My background is electronic engineering so I hope I can find a way.

Well if you think you can do *that*, then you are probably fine. There's a power distributor board behind the PSU which should be tap-able if you've got soldering talent, or you could splice into some of the cables running from the PDB to the mainboard or backplane. The backplane one is more accessible, not to mention longer. All of it is shoehorned into the chassis and it could be a little miserable to work on though.