Hacking WD Greens (and Reds) with WDIDLE3.exe

Ericloewe

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WD seemingly arbitrarily raised the 3.0 Reds to 8 drives from 5. I interpret that as saying "Yeah, we're making this up, pay no attention."

The only proven technical difference between Reds and Greens is that Greens don't support TLER.
 

Bidule0hm

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Actually these pads are bad because they absorb the vibrations by using the deformation of the silicone/rubber which allow a greater movement of the drive than if you mount it directly on the metal chassis (which also absorb the vibration by deformation but as the metal is very rigid the movement is very small).

I'd say to attach the drives the more rigidly you can and not worry about the green/red difference about vibrations ;)
 

joeschmuck

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I do understand that wdidle3 does get the wd-green to act more like the wd-red by adjusting the park head timer.
Actually the timer doesn't make it act more like the Reds because you never know what your Red is set to. Some are set to never park, some set to 300 seconds, some set to some other value. Depending on your use you should set the timer, I push 300 seconds myself for people to use although all my Reds are set to never park.

As for the comments about vibration resistance... There is some technology within the drives which will slightly speed them up or slow them down in order to reduce the vibration of the drive and originally it said you could use up to 5 drives together. I'm not sure how the algorithm works but it wouldn't surprise me if there could be a difference between 5 and 8 drives, but then again it could be a marketing ploy in an effort to push you to purchasing an enterprise product.

Lastly, the rubber vibration isolation mounts... I have never seen a manufacturers statement which claim mounting to a soft rubber surface is bad to the drive, or the other way around. In the old days drives shook like crazy and it was very permissible to mount those on shock mounts but the purpose was really to isolate vibration to the equipment. If vibration gets to the equipment it can damage the electronics which are hard mounted to the cabinets, such as in our typical computer systems these days. I personally do not believe shock mounting is a bad thing, especially with the mass of a hard drive decreasing significantly over time so vibrations are subtle these days and if it isn't subtle then you have a big problem and should replace your drive. Let's speak about a warranty period, no where do they state how the drive is to be mounted these days, but in the distant past is was an issue. If you have a drive failure while under warranty, it's replaced. They could care less about rubber mounts or hard mounts or if it were in a NAS. So long as it didn't go over temp (sometimes they don't care there either) and isn't physically broken (dropped), then you are covered.

Wow, long reply, sorry about that.
 

mac1144

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thank you for your replies.

I want to add I ended up getting a few wd-red 5tb drives and also one wd-green 5tb drive:
  • All the wd-reds had a manufacture date of dec 28,2014 and park timer on all these was set to 500 sec (5.0 mins).
  • The wd-green had a manufacture date of march,2015 and park timer set to 8.0 secs
  • I was able to disable the timer on both the red and green drives using wdidle3.
My plan is to mix the one green in with the reds into raid6 and see how 'nice' or 'not-so-nice' the green plays with the reds.

As for vibrations I decided ...I will likely take average effort to minimize it...and don't plan on going overboard in trying to reduce it.
 

joeschmuck

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Ensure that you enable SMART in your BIOS (should be on by default) and enable SMART in the FreeNAS GUI, setup your root email account so you can get status messages, and I recommend performing a SMART Short test on each drive every 24 hours and a long test once a week. For instance, I have all my drives set to run a short test at I think 1AM each day and to run a long test at 2AM on Tuesday. A short test takes about 2 minutes, the long test takes over 4 hours. The long test will not slow your server operations down much but it will affect it so choose an appropriate time, and if you want, you could stagger the days and times to have a lesser impact. If you do not setup SMART reporting then you are not going to know when a drive is failing.

Have fun with your system.
 

wrath

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My older wd red has timer at 300 secs. LCC at like 4000. It's been running for about a year on an older "nas" "box" with raspberry pi but i decided to retire that and build a real nas box. Is it worth disabling the timer on this drive that will be part of an raidz2 array with 5 other new reds (same size/model)? Should I disable timer on new drives as well? Thanks
 

Bidule0hm

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No problem with a LCC of 4000 after one year, even if the drive would last 50 years the LCC would still be ok :)
 

wrath

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No problem with a LCC of 4000 after one year, even if the drive would last 50 years the LCC would still be ok :)

I will check timer when all the new drives arrive. Unfortunately i had to buy them from 3 different sellers because they have 2 drive limit per customer.
 

rogerh

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Head parking may actually be good thing when it happens appropriately. And, apparently, it can be made to happen in FreeNAS if a pool does not have the system database, and long gaps in other activity
 

joeschmuck

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Should I disable timer on new drives as well? Thanks
As I said in an earlier posting, 300 seconds (5 minutes) is a very reasonable value. I would only recommend disabling the timer if you were in a high use environment like a small office where people are going to constantly be accessing data or in a home environment where you are running applications (plugins or system data set on the drives) which access data very frequently but just outside the 5 minute window.

To address a high use environment first... If you are in a high use environment if the heads are parked it will cause a delay (it's minor but it does irritate people) in retrieving the data so those types of system would typically want to leave the heads on the platters.

All WD Red drives are rated for 600,000 head loading cycles now, keep that in mind. This means 547 loads per day or once every 2.63 minutes. That means that if you set your timer for 5 minutes (288 counts a day maximum), you will never hit the maximum value under your 3 year warranty. Setting it up to 5 minutes means you would hit the maximum limit in just 5.4 years of operation.

We could simply state that 300 second value was good for any situation however it isn't and I wouldn't be happy if my load cycle counts were going up over 80 counts a day (that is a personal value, everyone would have their own personal cut-off point). I wouldn't loose any sleep over it either but I would change it myself to disable the head loading.

So to evaluate how your FreeNAS system is doing with respect to the head load cycle count, set them all up for 300 seconds and after you have your new FreeNAS system up and running record at the head loading count on all your drives (if they are all set to 300 seconds, you only need to record a single drive value but if you record all of them, you will know if all are actually set to 300 seconds and one didn't get missed), wait a few weeks and record it again. Now comes a judgement call on your part, can you live with the value? Do not forget to subtract any time you cycled power or rebooted the computer or if you are trying to sleep the drives as those will drive up the count. You might have 0 to 10 count which means your drives are almost constantly being accessed or a low value can also mean that you rarely use your NAS so you need to know what your usage is and put things into perspective. If you have a high value of 3800 or more then you are accessing data frequently just outside the 5 minute park period and immediately reloading the heads. Personally I'd disable the head loading if I had a high count like that, but it does still fall into the warranty period so you can technically leave it that way, but I wouldn't.

The reason I say to evaluate over a 2 week period is because of your specific use, I don't know it. You could evaluate over a much shorter period of say 2 days if you want (I would but I know what I'm looking at) and see what you come up with.

No problem with a LCC of 4000 after one year, even if the drive would last 50 years the LCC would still be ok :)
That is the value in the old NAS unit, not a FreeNAS unit so it's not the same thing.

Head parking may actually be good thing when it happens appropriately.
I 100% agree with this statement and that is why I try to push everyone to use 300 seconds initially. It's when the heads are constantly unloading and then seconds later load and the end user must figure that out. And to go along with this comment, do not disable the timers if you do not have an UPS unit which is controlled by your FreeNAS unit. If you cannot properly shutdown your system which will park the heads nicely then you are depending on the drive mechanics to do it. That's not a major issue these days however I would never operate that way under normal circumstances. Also you need to have the UPS to prevent data corruption.

@wrath I'd like to see what you come up with once you have your FreeNAS established.
 

Bidule0hm

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That is the value in the old NAS unit, not a FreeNAS unit so it's not the same thing.

What? it's a SMART attribute, FreeNAS has nothing to do with it.
 

joeschmuck

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What? it's a SMART attribute, FreeNAS has nothing to do with it.
The head load cycle count is dependent on the platform involved. How a drive performs in one NAS unit, lets say a Synology 211+, and it operates in a FreeNAS system are apples and oranges. The Sysnology runs from it's own firmware and operates the way it likes to so any features like streaming video apps or iTunes sharing for instance, they all run within the machine, not on the drive. In FreeNAS these are plugins which do reside on the drive (in the pool). This is why head loading counts will be different.
 

Bidule0hm

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Oh, I see what you mean. But what I said is that if you have a LCC of only 4000 after one year there's no problem regarding the maximum LCC value of 600000 because you'll never be close to that ;)
 

joeschmuck

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I completely agree with your assessment of 4000 counts in a year is not bad, it's very good, however I doubt that would be the case when the user moves that drive over into a FreeNAS environment, but that will depend on what the configuration ends up being which is why I wouldn't even start looking at the counts until after I had setup my NAS and had it all configured.

Hey, I like the fact that WD increased the load cycle count to 600000, but I'm not sure if that is because they got some reliability data back which suggests that is a solid value or if they changed it for marketing purposes and if they have to replace a few hundred drive failures over selling a few though thousand more drives, well it's a bean counter thing.
 

John Doe

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Can someone confirm that wdidle3 /D completely disables idle3 timer? I've read through few sources wdidle3 just sets it to 62 minutes.
 

cyberjock

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Can someone confirm that wdidle3 /D completely disables idle3 timer? I've read through few sources wdidle3 just sets it to 62 minutes.

/D disabled it for me. The 62 minutes things seems totally implausible since the setting can only be set from 1 to 300 seconds.

In the big picture, 62 minutes is still plenty long enough to remove the problems that involve with excessive head parking. I set mine to 300 seconds and have been very fine with the behavior. Likewise, I'd expect 62 minutes to be "just as fine".
 

John Doe

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The 62 minutes things seems totally implausible since the setting can only be set from 1 to 300 seconds.
Few articles say /D option (not /S) doesn't really disable timer but sets it to 62 minutes instead. Actually I would prefer 1 hour delay (not available through /S) since 5 minutes is still too much and I want HDD to park heads after long time of inactivity.
 

cyberjock

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The reality is that if the number of bits set amounts to 62 minutes (which is at least plausible) I seriously doubt that 62 minutes is actually when it triggers. I'd bet its disabled, and I bet WD is the only one that would know that answer. :p

In any case, the fact that your zpool may have the .system dataset may mean it will never sleep, even if set to 5 minutes. So the concern is invalid for at least 4 reasons I can think of. So I wouldn't worry about it and set it to 300 seconds or disabled (whichever you prefer).

That article (along with this thread) are very very "outdated". They are still 100% correct, but WD doesn't even offer these tools anymore and basically doesn't even discuss them at all. The fact that they work is just by chance and WD has said that the tools may stop working at any time. This tool is basically obsolete. I think the last build was dated 2011 or so, and WD discontinued it within a month of releasing the last version. So yeah.. very old stuff.

Edit: If you read that article closely you'll see is still refers to it as disabled, but stores it as 62 minutes. This is what I said above too. :P
 
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rogerh

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The reality is that if the number of bits set amounts to 62 minutes (which is at least plausible) I seriously doubt that 62 minutes is actually when it triggers. I'd bet its disabled, and I bet WD is the only one that would know that answer. :p

In any case, the fact that your zpool may have the .system dataset may mean it will never sleep, even if set to 5 minutes. So the concern is invalid for at least 4 reasons I can think of. So I wouldn't worry about it and set it to 300 seconds or disabled (whichever you prefer).

That article (along with this thread) are very very "outdated". They are still 100% correct, but WD doesn't even offer these tools anymore and basically doesn't even discuss them at all. The fact that they work is just by chance and WD has said that the tools may stop working at any time. This tool is basically obsolete. I think the last build was dated 2011 or so, and WD discontinued it within a month of releasing the last version. So yeah.. very old stuff.

Edit: If you read that article closely you'll see is still refers to it as disabled, but stores it as 62 minutes. This is what I said above too. :p

So anyone who buys new Green drives for a NAS is taking a bit of a gamble that they'll be usable?
 
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