Got my finger on BUY button... last chance

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mappo

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After lots of anxiety whether to go FreeNAS or LAMP, I've built up a shopping cart at a store.
With my finger on BUY I'm asking the Elder Geeks here for a sanity check before committing.
  • M/B: Supermicro X11SSM-F
  • CPU: E3-1230v5
  • RAM: Samsung M391A2K43BB1-CPB (1 stick of 16)
  • PSU: Corsair CX450M
  • HDD: 4 WD Red 4TB
  • Boot: Corsair Flash Voyager Vega - 16GB
  • Case: I'll try to re-use my beloved Lian-Li PC-60 from 2002 (!)
Well? Will this do for storage, ownCloud and Plex?
 

Robert Trevellyan

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The general approach looks sound to me, regardless of which OS you choose. I haven't verified specific component compatibility.
Elder Geeks
Hey, watch it, there's only one Old Man around here, and his name is @joeschmuck.
 

Ericloewe

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joeschmuck

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As the old man (thanks @Robert Trevellyan )...

Your setup looks fine and I agree with @Ericloewe , the Seasonic is a much better quality power supply.

The RAM is perfect, same as what I'm using and 16GB will be fine for the tasks as you listed them.

Questions:
1) You have said you wanted four 4TB hard drives, what format are you going to set these up in? RAIDZ1, RAIDZ2, Two Mirrors, etc...?

2) How much storage are you looking to actually have use of? This is key. Here is why and these are just my rules of thumb, my advice... You need to answer these questions in order to get you the best performance without wasting money for what you need now and for the next 3 years...

a) How much storage do you need for the next 3 years? Why 3 years, because hard drive warranties are typically 3 years in duration but most hard drives will last 4 years or more if you take care of them, but if they fail after the warranty period, you need to buy a replacement drive. So for the next 3 years what are your storage needs? Now double that because most people are not realistic on that storage or something happens where they want to store more, and you need to leave 20% free space for performance reasons. So if you think you need 8TB of storage, I'd shoot for 16TB of storage, or close to that value. Remember that this is just my rule of thumb/advice, not what you have to do.

b) How important is the data you will be storing on the drives? Important also means important to not need to copy all the data back on to the NAS should a drive failure occur. This is where we choose RAIDZ1, RAIDZ2, Mirrors, etc... Most of us here will recommend RAIDZ2 as this offers any two drives to fail and your data is still intact. However lets say you are only storing video content for a media server and you only have 4 TB of data. Well that is easy to reconstruct if you have a backup and a RAIDZ1 would be fine. But if you have a media server with 20TB of data, well that is a lot of recovery and a RAIDZ2 would be proper.

c) Once you know the answers to questions a & b above, now you can figure out how many drives to obtain and their sizes. There are pro's and con's to lots of smaller drives or fewer larger drives. It is almost always best to have more smaller hard drives than fewer larger hard drives but money and space become issues of course. Once we know the capacity you desire, then we can make recommendations on the hard drives. Also please note that you cannot just add two hard drives later and that will add capacity. There is a specific process and cautions because with this file system you can place your data at high risk by adding hard drives incorrectly. If you do get to this place int he future, ask if you are doing things right before you take the leap. It will save you a lot of grief.

3) The case you plan to use, I pulled up an old photo of that case, not sure it was the right photo but it looks like there are 3 drive bays for 3.5" hard drives at the bottom and four drive bays for 5.25" drives at the top. I didn't see any fans to flow air over the hard drives but that doesn't mean you don't have them. Please keep in mind that heat will kill a hard drive so try to space them apart or ensure there is forced air flow. If you case is what I think then plan it out carefully. Once all together, after it's been running for a few hours in a closed up case check the temperature of the hard drives via "smartctl".

You could also purchase a small SSD as your boot device vice the USB Flash drive, but you don't need that right now, but if you have one or find one at a great price, my advice is grab it.
 

Dice

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Lian-Li PC-60 from 2002 (!)
I used to drool big time over these at the time...
Couldnt afford Lian-Li so ended up with a series of Chieftec boxes..

Thank's for resurrecting the memories of the DIY case modding days :D
 

joeschmuck

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Dice

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They are still in full force at my home.
Yeah, well I do a lot of configuration DIY work still... even did a full case from scratch this spring.. I've moved away from the <ufology theme> in terms of colors... :cool:
 

brando56894

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Also please note that you cannot just add two hard drives later and that will add capacity. There is a specific process and cautions because with this file system you can place your data at high risk by adding hard drives incorrectly. If you do get to this place int he future, ask if you are doing things right before you take the leap. It will save you a lot of grief.

Listen to the elder geek and heed his knowledge! Not being able to add disks later on was one of the hardest things to adapt to when moving from Linux mdadm to ZFS, and it caused me to recreate my pool at least 3 times in the first month or two of using ZFS. I then ended up recreating the pools at least twice after that when I first tried to replace a failed drive via the GUI and FUBAR'd my pool, then months later when upgrading capacities. That's another minor thing he left out, (I guess his old age is affecting his memory hahaha) when using the RAIDZ format you will not realize an increase in capacity until all of the drives have been upgraded, which can end up being pretty expensive regardless of whether you have a lot of small drives or fewer larger drives.

For the reasons that both Joe and I mentioned above, I ended up going with multiple mirrored vdevs. Yea it sucks losing half of your total capacity, but you get the added benefits of quick resilvers (an hour or two, compared to 7+ hours), the ability to quickly increase your capacity, and an increase in IOPS. Theoretically you could lose half of your drives and still have access to all your data, but it would have to be one drive out of each pair. In reality, you're already on the edge if you lose one drive, even if you have 24, because all it takes is losing that other drive and your entire pool is FUBAR'd, so Z2 and Z3 definitely have the advantage here. Here's a great thread comparing mirrors to raidz by jgreco.
 

mappo

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Wow! Here I was, all hot and anxious, and the elder geek went "patience, young ninja"

Storage needs is difficult but I doubt it will be more than a couple of hundred gigs - mostly photos.

In a previous post I tried to explain my three "tiers" of data: precious (photos); liked (ripped DVDs etc); and meh (downloaded stuff).

For category meh I was hoping to use some older drives I have lying around.

To make setup easier I thought that precious and liked would share the three or four large new drives and then invoke different backup schemes.


Is of "OK" to step down in redundancy (I.e from RZ2 to RZ1) while at the same time stepping up in backup?


Thanks for suggesting the better PSU!

The Lian-li has four external 5.25, 3 external 3.5 plus an internal cage for four or five 3.5. In front of the cage are two fans and I've installed another at the back.
 

Robert Trevellyan

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For category meh I was hoping to use some older drives I have lying around.
I'm sure you realize this, but just in case, this implies more than one pool.
Is of "OK" to step down in redundancy (I.e from RZ2 to RZ1) while at the same time stepping up in backup?
It's OK to do whatever you feel comfortable with, but data you care about needs to be backed up, regardless of how much redundancy you have in your array. Frequency, method and location of backups may vary depending on your risk tolerance.
 

joeschmuck

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Just to give an example on backups, I have a full copy of all my photos on a Windows computer (the wife has access to this one) and on the NAS (NAS being the primary repository) and then I cut new DVD media with all my photos about once every 6 months because family photos are important to keep and ransomware is real, seen it and never want my digital content at risk. Other stuff like financial records are also periodically copied to DVD media. I keep the current DVD copy and the previous copy, this way I have two sets just in case something didn't make it. The older copy get destroyed. This keeps things a bit safer. And if you are not good about remembering these things, a calendar reminder will help.
 

BigDave

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Drop the CPU: E3-1230v5 for a Pentium
and use the savings for more hard disks.
 

mappo

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Drop the CPU: E3-1230v5 for a Pentium
and use the savings for more hard disks.
So first I thought "but I need ecc and aes, and what about plex?".
Then I looked into it and noticed there are i3:s with ecc, aes and ht at about half the price of the Xeon.

Then I looked some more and found some Pentiums (and even celerons) at half the price again! This would mean giving up on ht though.

Before anyone asks why I (think I) need aes: I thought I'd use some cloud service as 2nd backup but I'd like to encrypt locally first.

In case it hasn't been clear before: my finger is now off the BUY button...
 
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