BlackEternity
Cadet
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2022
- Messages
- 3
Hi there,
I bet this is the gazillionth post of this sort.
I feel somewhat prepared for this.
First and foremost: I'm a Home-User and Enthusiast.
I know that this is no "out of the box solution" and requires some work and thoughts before doing stuff.
This is why I'm here and asking maybe stupid questions questions.
Preface:
I currently own a QNAP TS-879 Pro with 8x 2TB Drives in it.
- The NAS is Stock and utilizes an i3 and 2GB of RAM (Non-ECC as far as I know).
- It runs RAID5 and is nearly 10 years old now (Dang how time flies...)
- Connected via Gigabit-Ethernet to my network.
I had some hickups with it and to be honest: I'm done with it.
The Flash-DOM started acting up two years ago. It wouldn't boot properly, needed to be restarted 5 times to even POST. Sometimes I needed to re-seat and juggle the flippin' thing.
This is the main pain-point. When I really hammer it with thousands of small files I can make it hard crash and restart.
This is a no-no for me.
This system hosts all kinds of stuff you would expect at home.
Backups of movies, music, Documents and most importantly: My Raw Files and Photos that I take as a Hobby-photographer.
I have a redundant offsite-backup on a regular old HDD that I copy on a regular basis.
I understand that a NAS is not a Backup so I understand the difference.
Use-Case:
This storage-solution is used for just archiving my data, streaming and presenting it to different computers around the space.
There is no transcoding taking place. The NAS just has to present everything, accept all new stuff and work.
Main Stress-Point:
As a Hobby-Photographer I use Adobe Lightroom.
The Library itself is stored locally on my PC and a Backup is done to the NAS once a month.
But the RAW-Files are stored on the NAS and I edit them directly there.
Again - this is not a heavy workload IMHO like Video editing or something like that. The Files just have to be there in a "snappy" fashion.
I don't expect huge File-Dumps like 2 TB in one go - Just the ocassional Copy job or SD-Card from Lightroom.
Because the Disk space is relatively cheap nowadays and we are over the "2TB Disk size" that I was stuck back then, I want to reduce the number of spinning disks from 8 to maximum 4. That allows me to use RAIDZ1 with 3 in total (I can't expand later, I know) or RAIDZ2 with 4 in total for twice the parity.
Right now my Disk-Space is running pretty low and I need to upgrade my Storage-capacity anyways and I don't want to dump money into 8 drives when I ditch my QNAP anyways.
Right now I have around 12TB usable space from the 8x2 disks. I aim towards 20TB+ - depending on what my ZFS-Config might be and how expensive everything gets. 20TB minimum, more would be nice as piece of mind - Again 4 disks would be the target I aim for in terms of weight, noise and heat (SSDs for OS or whatnot excepted).
Now to you people:
My first thought was to use my old i5 and 16GB of RAM that I had kicking around. But reading on the "Get started" page, that was shattered pretty quickly.
I got in a heated debate with a good friend of mine that uses UnRaid and I am not really willing to go that route - I think.
Regardless of reading "you should use ECC and beefy stuff" I gave it a whirl and it worked fine. So I know that I don't need to throw 128GB of RAM at that thing to just do it's job.
Buuuut there is still so many things I don't get. And I hope to find answers because I want to make an educated decision here before I pull the trigger and move my precious data to any place.
1) Why the "high RAM requirements" and how much is enough for my Use-Case above?
I'm new to ZFS and I did some reading. I understand that it's taxing on the hardware to properly get to speed. But what does the RAM do with it?
I understand that it's the buffer (ARC?) for your data. And if it's full it needs the next best thing and that would be the Disks itself / the System-Disk?
So how do I know when "enough is enough"? I tested with my 16G of Non-ECC Memory and it got filled up. But it copied happily from and to the system with near full saturation of my Gigabit-Ethernet (100 Megabytes/sec).
2) Does ECC make a huge difference and what Metrics are important: Clock-Speed, Single or Dual-Rank, How many modules?
I know I know - I question ECC. I'm not saying I don't want ECC - I just want to learn and understand.
I know that ECC is error correcting and that it prevents corrupt data. Which I really like. But why for example is my PC not hard crashing or my QNAP working fine?
I read that the TrueNAS / ZFS-Filesystem stores data in the RAM before it gets written to Disk (Which basically all systems do at one point or another). But how long is that data stored in there "for real?" that makes it "vulnerable" to this problem?
I've read Cyberjock's FreeNAS / TrueNAS Guide and to be honest: It's a bit frightening and I don't want to be a statistic.
3) What type of CPU should I target?
I fully understand, that this is a server and I shouldn't put janky hardware in it when I appreciate the safety of my data.
Newer AMD boards for example can utilize ECC-Memory. But so do older Xeon processors.
Again - in regards to my preface, I want to understand what makes sense. I don't want a 100W Processor heating my home in the winter - I got central heating for that. And from my quick and dirty testing, the i5 that I used seemed pretty chill with 20% max load for a couple of seconds in the dashboard.
Does it make sense to search for older used Server-hardware or just grab a cheap modern CPU with a Board that is more Server/SOHO oriented?
4) RAIDZ1 or RAIDZ2?
With the Preface that I aim around 3-4 disks, I am not sure what to pick. RAIDZ1 reflects my current RAID5 setup and I know that I can take one hit before it crashes and burns. Which was fine in the past - I never lost or replaced more than one drive (knock on wood).
The benefit of RAIDZ2 is appealing to me but with "only" 4 disks I feel like I would just setup a RAID1 in terms of utilization. "Wasting" half the space for Parity seems a bit overkill and is from my standpoint really beneficial when using a setup like my old QNAP or more? Again - constructive feedback appreciated because I've read Cyberjock's guide and it made me question my life-choices :D
5) Please forgive me for asking and don't throw a pitchfork but I want to understand this: What are fundamental benefits of TrueNAS over Unraid?
As I've said in the Preface, I had an argument with a friend of mine over this. He uses Unraid but he couldn't explain the benefits of me shelling out money for it.
I don't rummage through my closet and find a dusty 1TB disk and think "Well great, let's plonk it in my NAS". Since I built my QNAP, I never added a single hard disk to it. I bought it, I bought 8 Disks and shoved them in. Replaced them when they failed, but never needed to extend the Disk-Array.
I don't use PLEX so this is another "advantage" of Unraid gone. "Runs on low end hardware" is one - but again: No idea what I want. Still reading up on it and wanting to understand the solution I might choose. On the surface Unraid and TrueNAS seem "identical". Both offer Storage solution. One uses ZFS, the other XFS. One uses a single parity-disk for everything in order to "save the disk and spin unused ones down", the other takes the more classic "Raidlike approach". I don't need to spin single disks down. For the past 10 years, 8 disks have been running nearly 24/7.
I read up on the documentation and on the technical side but I want to understand from users themselves: What makes this solution worthwile and great?
6) Hardware-Issues - How to deal with it?
I'm really frustrated by the shortsighted approach of QNAP. I bought an 8-Bay NAS that is NOT a Home-Use product specifically so I could upgrade it and fix an issue without throwing everything in the garbage. My Flash-DOM is finnicky and QNAP tells me to punch dirt and buy a new QNAP instead of selling me a replacement-stick. The unit even has a second slot in it for a backup-unit and is replaceable.
So how do I deal with Hardware-Faults? How does TrueNAS and the ZFS respect changes to Hardware?
Can I replace my CPU without killing everything?
Can I replace faulty RAM without destroying everything?
What about a new system when my Mainboard is bricked or I need more power? Can I transfer my installation and the disks to another system without rebuilding it? Or do I need to have the same storage-space AGAIN in order to transfer / copy stuff? Yes - Backups will be done but I ask specifically about the things I can do without rebuilding everything. Where does it end? I would expect that I can drop replacement parts in it without the ZFS completely acting up - as long as the config of the TrueNAS OS is still fine?
I want to make sure that my next solution can survive another 10 years from the moment I have transferred my data and I don't need to babysit the machine.
If you aren't dead by now and can still read this: Thanks and I hope my questions and thoughts aren't boiling your blood. I'm an enthusiast and love tech and I want to understand it before I commit to things. I want to learn and make educated decisions and if everything here is obvious to me: Please understand that I have been searching online for the past 3 days and I always end up short on these questions / or am too stupid to find everything I need.
Thanks and cheers,
I bet this is the gazillionth post of this sort.
I feel somewhat prepared for this.
First and foremost: I'm a Home-User and Enthusiast.
I know that this is no "out of the box solution" and requires some work and thoughts before doing stuff.
This is why I'm here and asking maybe stupid questions questions.
Preface:
I currently own a QNAP TS-879 Pro with 8x 2TB Drives in it.
- The NAS is Stock and utilizes an i3 and 2GB of RAM (Non-ECC as far as I know).
- It runs RAID5 and is nearly 10 years old now (Dang how time flies...)
- Connected via Gigabit-Ethernet to my network.
I had some hickups with it and to be honest: I'm done with it.
The Flash-DOM started acting up two years ago. It wouldn't boot properly, needed to be restarted 5 times to even POST. Sometimes I needed to re-seat and juggle the flippin' thing.
This is the main pain-point. When I really hammer it with thousands of small files I can make it hard crash and restart.
This is a no-no for me.
This system hosts all kinds of stuff you would expect at home.
Backups of movies, music, Documents and most importantly: My Raw Files and Photos that I take as a Hobby-photographer.
I have a redundant offsite-backup on a regular old HDD that I copy on a regular basis.
I understand that a NAS is not a Backup so I understand the difference.
Use-Case:
This storage-solution is used for just archiving my data, streaming and presenting it to different computers around the space.
There is no transcoding taking place. The NAS just has to present everything, accept all new stuff and work.
Main Stress-Point:
As a Hobby-Photographer I use Adobe Lightroom.
The Library itself is stored locally on my PC and a Backup is done to the NAS once a month.
But the RAW-Files are stored on the NAS and I edit them directly there.
Again - this is not a heavy workload IMHO like Video editing or something like that. The Files just have to be there in a "snappy" fashion.
I don't expect huge File-Dumps like 2 TB in one go - Just the ocassional Copy job or SD-Card from Lightroom.
Because the Disk space is relatively cheap nowadays and we are over the "2TB Disk size" that I was stuck back then, I want to reduce the number of spinning disks from 8 to maximum 4. That allows me to use RAIDZ1 with 3 in total (I can't expand later, I know) or RAIDZ2 with 4 in total for twice the parity.
Right now my Disk-Space is running pretty low and I need to upgrade my Storage-capacity anyways and I don't want to dump money into 8 drives when I ditch my QNAP anyways.
Right now I have around 12TB usable space from the 8x2 disks. I aim towards 20TB+ - depending on what my ZFS-Config might be and how expensive everything gets. 20TB minimum, more would be nice as piece of mind - Again 4 disks would be the target I aim for in terms of weight, noise and heat (SSDs for OS or whatnot excepted).
Now to you people:
My first thought was to use my old i5 and 16GB of RAM that I had kicking around. But reading on the "Get started" page, that was shattered pretty quickly.
I got in a heated debate with a good friend of mine that uses UnRaid and I am not really willing to go that route - I think.
Regardless of reading "you should use ECC and beefy stuff" I gave it a whirl and it worked fine. So I know that I don't need to throw 128GB of RAM at that thing to just do it's job.
Buuuut there is still so many things I don't get. And I hope to find answers because I want to make an educated decision here before I pull the trigger and move my precious data to any place.
1) Why the "high RAM requirements" and how much is enough for my Use-Case above?
I'm new to ZFS and I did some reading. I understand that it's taxing on the hardware to properly get to speed. But what does the RAM do with it?
I understand that it's the buffer (ARC?) for your data. And if it's full it needs the next best thing and that would be the Disks itself / the System-Disk?
So how do I know when "enough is enough"? I tested with my 16G of Non-ECC Memory and it got filled up. But it copied happily from and to the system with near full saturation of my Gigabit-Ethernet (100 Megabytes/sec).
2) Does ECC make a huge difference and what Metrics are important: Clock-Speed, Single or Dual-Rank, How many modules?
I know I know - I question ECC. I'm not saying I don't want ECC - I just want to learn and understand.
I know that ECC is error correcting and that it prevents corrupt data. Which I really like. But why for example is my PC not hard crashing or my QNAP working fine?
I read that the TrueNAS / ZFS-Filesystem stores data in the RAM before it gets written to Disk (Which basically all systems do at one point or another). But how long is that data stored in there "for real?" that makes it "vulnerable" to this problem?
I've read Cyberjock's FreeNAS / TrueNAS Guide and to be honest: It's a bit frightening and I don't want to be a statistic.
3) What type of CPU should I target?
I fully understand, that this is a server and I shouldn't put janky hardware in it when I appreciate the safety of my data.
Newer AMD boards for example can utilize ECC-Memory. But so do older Xeon processors.
Again - in regards to my preface, I want to understand what makes sense. I don't want a 100W Processor heating my home in the winter - I got central heating for that. And from my quick and dirty testing, the i5 that I used seemed pretty chill with 20% max load for a couple of seconds in the dashboard.
Does it make sense to search for older used Server-hardware or just grab a cheap modern CPU with a Board that is more Server/SOHO oriented?
4) RAIDZ1 or RAIDZ2?
With the Preface that I aim around 3-4 disks, I am not sure what to pick. RAIDZ1 reflects my current RAID5 setup and I know that I can take one hit before it crashes and burns. Which was fine in the past - I never lost or replaced more than one drive (knock on wood).
The benefit of RAIDZ2 is appealing to me but with "only" 4 disks I feel like I would just setup a RAID1 in terms of utilization. "Wasting" half the space for Parity seems a bit overkill and is from my standpoint really beneficial when using a setup like my old QNAP or more? Again - constructive feedback appreciated because I've read Cyberjock's guide and it made me question my life-choices :D
5) Please forgive me for asking and don't throw a pitchfork but I want to understand this: What are fundamental benefits of TrueNAS over Unraid?
As I've said in the Preface, I had an argument with a friend of mine over this. He uses Unraid but he couldn't explain the benefits of me shelling out money for it.
I don't rummage through my closet and find a dusty 1TB disk and think "Well great, let's plonk it in my NAS". Since I built my QNAP, I never added a single hard disk to it. I bought it, I bought 8 Disks and shoved them in. Replaced them when they failed, but never needed to extend the Disk-Array.
I don't use PLEX so this is another "advantage" of Unraid gone. "Runs on low end hardware" is one - but again: No idea what I want. Still reading up on it and wanting to understand the solution I might choose. On the surface Unraid and TrueNAS seem "identical". Both offer Storage solution. One uses ZFS, the other XFS. One uses a single parity-disk for everything in order to "save the disk and spin unused ones down", the other takes the more classic "Raidlike approach". I don't need to spin single disks down. For the past 10 years, 8 disks have been running nearly 24/7.
I read up on the documentation and on the technical side but I want to understand from users themselves: What makes this solution worthwile and great?
6) Hardware-Issues - How to deal with it?
I'm really frustrated by the shortsighted approach of QNAP. I bought an 8-Bay NAS that is NOT a Home-Use product specifically so I could upgrade it and fix an issue without throwing everything in the garbage. My Flash-DOM is finnicky and QNAP tells me to punch dirt and buy a new QNAP instead of selling me a replacement-stick. The unit even has a second slot in it for a backup-unit and is replaceable.
So how do I deal with Hardware-Faults? How does TrueNAS and the ZFS respect changes to Hardware?
Can I replace my CPU without killing everything?
Can I replace faulty RAM without destroying everything?
What about a new system when my Mainboard is bricked or I need more power? Can I transfer my installation and the disks to another system without rebuilding it? Or do I need to have the same storage-space AGAIN in order to transfer / copy stuff? Yes - Backups will be done but I ask specifically about the things I can do without rebuilding everything. Where does it end? I would expect that I can drop replacement parts in it without the ZFS completely acting up - as long as the config of the TrueNAS OS is still fine?
I want to make sure that my next solution can survive another 10 years from the moment I have transferred my data and I don't need to babysit the machine.
If you aren't dead by now and can still read this: Thanks and I hope my questions and thoughts aren't boiling your blood. I'm an enthusiast and love tech and I want to understand it before I commit to things. I want to learn and make educated decisions and if everything here is obvious to me: Please understand that I have been searching online for the past 3 days and I always end up short on these questions / or am too stupid to find everything I need.
Thanks and cheers,