First Time NAS Build - X11SM-F/E3-1220V6 uATX vs ASRock Z370/i3-8100 mITX

[verysneaky]

Hi All,

Just looking for some feedback/suggestions on two competing home NAS builds I have (trying to decide between the two/identify issues with them). I'm building it to support a home-use PLEX server, and ideally as a centralised file server. My tentative requirements are to be able to transcode 4x 1080p streams concurrently. I would also like the possibility of inserting a tv tuner (admittedly, i've done 0 research into this so I don't know if it's possible), and also potentially 10GbE. I don't need anything this fast, but it would be good to experiment with. In terms of storage, I currently have ~4TB of content, and looking to account for future usage and add some redundancy. Current thought is to use RAIDZ2 with 6x 3TB drives to give me 12TB usable.

The Supermicro Build:
Intel - Xeon E3-1220 V6 3GHz Quad-Core Processor - $269
Supermicro - MBD-X11SSM-F-O Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard - $266
Kingston - ValueRAM 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory (ECC-Unbuffered) - $119 x 4 = $476
Western Digital - Green 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive - $40
Western Digital - Red 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive - $134 x 6 = $804
Fractal Design - Node 804 MicroATX Mid Tower Case - $149
SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply - $145

Total Cost: $2149 AUD

Some reasoning behind these decisions:
- the X11SSM-F offers 8 SATA ports, giving me room to fill the entire capcaity of the Node 804 case in the future.
- 6 drives in a RAIDZ2 seems to be a good tradeoff between amount of storage and cost, 4 drives (which i was originally considering) requires me to give up 50% of the storage for redundancy which I don't love.
- 32GB RAM to exceed 18TB.
- Xeon E3-1220 V6 because it satisfies my passmark requirements (8046 > 4x2000). I had also considered the Xeon E3-1245 V6, which has a passmark of 10401, which would give me a buffer for my requirements. It's $120 AUD more expensive, though, and I'm trying to keep the costs of this build down (it's already getting too high for my liking). Not sure what to do here
- The power supply has good ratings, is fully modular and supposedly runs very quiet.

Questions:
- Do I need to consider a cpu cooler?
- Originally had RAM at 16GB RAM; is it necessary to increase this to 32?
- Is there anything I haven't considered? Are there better alternatives for any of these parts?

The ASRock Build:
Intel - Core i3-8100 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor - $153.00
Noctua - NH-D9L 46.4 CFM CPU Cooler - $85.80
ASRock - Z370M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard - $189.00
Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (Non ECC) - $239.00
Western Digital - Red 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive - $134 x 6 = $804.00
SanDisk Ultra Fit USB 3.0 Flash Drive (128GB) - $94.00
Fractal Design - Node 304 Mini ITX Tower Case - $129.00
SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply $145.00

Total Cost: $1838 AUD

Some reasoning behind these decisions:
- the Z370M-ITX/ac has the smaller form factor and so this build could fit the node 304
- the Z370M-ITX/ac suppers 6 SATA drives, which fills the Node 304's capacity
- the i3-8100 has a passmark of 8055, which exceeds my requirements and is cheap

The downsides to the ASRock build:
- No ECC RAM
- No IPMI
- No room for future drive expansion

Counter points:
- I'm mostly going to be storing media, so if there is bit corruption it isn't too difficult just to replace the content
- The server will be very close to me physically, so IPMI will provide limited benefit
- RAIDZ doesn't support drive expansion at the moment anyway, so to increase my storage capacity, my understanding is that i'd have to rebuild with larger capacity drives anyway.. not increasing the number of drives I have.
- Both have the same amount of storage
- The ASRock build costs $300 less
- The ASRock build fits the smaller form factor, will take up less space

(Note all prices are in AUD, where 1AUD ~ 0.75 USD, 1USD ~ 1.3 AUD)

What are your thoughts? Which one would you choose and why? For your chosen build, is there anything you could improve? Any feedback provided is much appreciated!

Cheers!

VS

 

[Chris Moore]

What are your thoughts? Which one would you choose and why? For your chosen build, is there anything you could improve? Any feedback provided is much appreciated!

You might want to take a look at this parts list and see what you think. You can save a lot of money verses buying new parts:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/new-freenas-build.64095/#post-459293

 

[verysneaky]

You might want to take a look at this parts list and see what you think. You can save a lot of money verses buying new parts:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/new-freenas-build.64095/#post-459293

Hi Chris, thanks for the suggestion! Unfortunately the form factor on the suggested mobo is ATX - a little larger than I wanted to build. I'll definitely keep this in mind for when I decide to put a server rack together. I'd actually also considered the X9SCM-iiF as an alternative, too. Unfortunately in AUS there doesn't seem to be a significant difference in the costs associated with the older vs newer (order of <$100 difference, at least on the combinations I found) after accounting for exchange rates, shipping and the upcoming import tax. Local prices seem to be significantly worse, too.

 

[IQless]

My tentative requirements are to be able to transcode 4x 1080p streams concurrently

Do you actually need 4x transcodes? A lot of people is under the impression "I have four TV's in my house, therefore I need a CPU that can handle 4 transcodes. But anyway, having the extra horsepower is always nice (especially if you are running a lot of jails and/or VM's) :)

I had also considered the Xeon E3-1245 V6,

If you go for the X11SSM-F-O you don't need the integrated graphics. The graphics part of the chip will not give you any boost in FreeNAS.

 

[verysneaky]

Do you actually need 4x transcodes? A lot of people is under the impression "I have four TV's in my house, therefore I need a CPU that can handle 4 transcodes. But anyway, having the extra horsepower is always nice (especially if you are running a lot of jails and/or VM's)

Ahh, depending on the content I might need up to 2x transcodes in the house at once, but I also serve to a number of remote users as well.. so the requirement is based on giving myself some headroom. I do also plan to experiment with VMs and see if there's anything useful I can do (thought about setting up a pentesting VM to practice on..)

If you go for the X11SSM-F-O you don't need the integrated graphics. The graphics part of the chip will not give you any boost in FreeNAS.

To clarify, you're indicating that the board doesn't have the I/O to take advantage of the integrated graphics in the chip, correct? The main reason for my selection here was the higher passmark, and when I was looking for prices on amazon they were roughly the same. Having had a second look, the 1240 is ~$20 cheaper, so good tip :) I wonder if the hardware acceleration now provided in plex would utilise the integrated graphics..

Just as a general question, how important is it that the RAM is on the manufacturer approved list? They only list micron and samsung, and I can't seem to find them anywhere for a reasonable price

 

[IQless]

To clarify, you're indicating that the board doesn't have the I/O to take advantage of the integrated graphics in the chip, correct?

What I mean is that FreeNAS is purely "text-based", and all configuration is done in the GUI or CLI over the network (or in CLI directly on the box). Therefore the graphics part of the CPU would not be utilized in FreeNAS.

If you plan to repurpose this build for something different in the future that would benefit of the integrated graphics, it might be nice to go for the 1245. But like I said, FreeNAS won't use it :)

 

[Inxsible]

Just as a general question, how important is it that the RAM is on the manufacturer approved list?

I never checked the QVL before plugging in my RAM to my Tyan motherboard. Never gave me a problem. YMMV.

I would go with the Supermicro build because

1. It gives you options for future expandability.
2. Node 804 can support a total of 12 drives which gives you options on how to setup storage drives & pool configuration vs. Node 304
3. It gives you proper server grade hardware with ECC.

Side note: you can always choose a different mATX board even if it doesn't have enough SATA ports because you can always just use a HBA to control your drives. This might save you money overall.

 

[verysneaky]

I never checked the QVL before plugging in my RAM to my Than motherboard. Never gave me a problem. YMMV.

Well that's good to know; the Crucial RAM on the QVL is ~$200 more expensive

 

[Chris Moore]

It is the price of memory that has me suggesting the hardware I did.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

 

[verysneaky]

It is the price of memory that has me suggesting the hardware I did.

Can you think of any mATX hardware that would have similar cost advantages?

 

[Chris Moore]

I would also like the possibility of inserting a tv tuner (admittedly, i've done 0 research into this so I don't know if it's possible),

Not possible in FreeNAS.

and also potentially 10GbE.

Need an expansion slot for that, Chelsio and Intel cards are better. Like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/110-1088-3...GB-2-Port-PCI-e-OPT-Adapter-Card/282086686815

Fractal Design - Node 804 MicroATX Mid Tower Case - $149

Full ATX board capacity, better airflow and it can accommodate more drives:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fractal-De...kout-ATX-Mid-Tower-Computer-Case/263674550441

Can you think of any mATX hardware that would have similar cost advantages?

Is there some special reason why you need to have mATX?

 

[verysneaky]

I would go with the Supermicro build because

1. It gives you options for future expandability.
2. Node 804 can support a total of 12 drives which gives you options on how to setup storage drives & pool configuration vs. Node 304
3. It gives you proper server grade hardware with ECC.

Thanks for the feedback, all good points. I think I tend to agree, for an extra couple of hundred dollars might as well go for the more capable solution. Still, a bit more expensive than I was originally prepared for.

Not possible in FreeNAS.

Thanks, I hadn't realised this.

Full ATX board capacity, better airflow and it can accommodate more drives:

Drives aren't really a consideration for me past the 10-12 that the 804 can accommodate.. at this stage anyway. I can't foresee needing more for at least the next ~5 years or so. By that stage I'll have a better idea of my future requirements and can look at something rack mounted if necessary.

Is there some special reason why you need to have mATX?

Primarily size. I live in a small house with a number of other people and having something ATX size is going to be too intrusive in the common areas. I was ideally looking for mITX, so uATX is a bit of a stretch but I guess I'm willing to accept the larger size there. Also power considerations.. it seems like the smaller boards lend themselves to less power draw

 

[Chris Moore]

Primarily size. I live in a small house with a number of other people and having something ATX size is going to be too intrusive in the common areas.

That doesn't make any sense to me.
Sorry, being from the US, I think in feet and inches, but I put the millimeters in for you.

Fractal Design Define R5
232 x 462 x 531 mm
9.1 in x 18.2 in x 20.9 in
* that works out to 56914.704 cubic centimeters or .056914704 cubic meters

Fractal Design Node 804
307 mm × 344 mm × 389 mm (H×W×D)
12.09 in × 13.55 in × 15.32 in (H×W×D)
* that works out to 41081.512 cubic centimeters or .041081512 cubic meters

The Define R5 is five inches taller and five inches deeper but three inches narrower and you are saying that the size difference is just too much to handle?

With rounding, we are talking about the difference of .06 cubic meters and .04 cubic meters. That is just too much...
That is the difference between ATX and mATX...

 

[verysneaky]

Measuring it in volume is a bit of a strawman.. At these sizes, metric units for volume are tiny. Regardless, the delta you've calculated is that the R5 is 38% larger than the Node 804. More discretely, using your figures (I think you got HxWxD reversed, there is no way the 804 stands taller than the R5), the Node 804 relative to Design R5:
Width: (307-232)/232 = 32.3% increase in width
Height: (344-462)/344 = 34.3% decrease in height
Depth: (389-531)/389 = 36.5% decrease in depth

When we're talking about changes in the order of 30-40% larger, it's not as negligible as you indicate. Remembering that my ideal form factor was the Node 304, which is 20% less wide and 40% less tall than the 804, which is not insignificant either. Regardless, I think I'm going to put an ATX build together to get a better idea about the cost/size trade-off

 

[Inxsible]

Think about what you are going to do with the machine for the next 3-5 years. It really comes down to that. If you don't think your use case will change significantly, then you should be ok with a uATX board/case.

Many factors go into choosing a case...WAF is one, looks is another, size is yet another.

Not everyone thinks a rack mount chassis looks good and not everyone needs it either.

 

[Stux]

I would suggest you consider the 1230 Xeon. It’s intels best value Xeon as it has twice as many threads as the 1220. This means it can be up to 60% faster for plex than a 1220 at a lot less than 60% marginal cost.

Source: I used to write video codecs.

Tv card is not going to work in FreeNAS. Might in a ESXi VM.

 

[verysneaky]

I would suggest you consider the 1230 Xeon. It’s intels best value Xeon as it has twice as many threads as the 1220. This means it can be up to 60% faster for plex than a 1220 at a lot less than 60% marginal cost.

Source: I used to write video codecs.

You'd probably be a better person to ask than most, then. What are your thoughts on the 1245 xeon? I realise that FreeNAS won't utilise the iGPU, but my thought was that since one of my primary uses for this NAS will be to run PLEX, this might provide some advantages in terms of hardware acceleration for transcoding

 

[Chris Moore]

You'd probably be a better person to ask than most, then. What are your thoughts on the 1245 xeon? I realise that FreeNAS won't utilise the iGPU, but my thought was that since one of my primary uses for this NAS will be to run PLEX, this might provide some advantages in terms of hardware acceleration for transcoding

No. Plex on FreeNAS doesn't use the GPU (any GPU) any more than the rest of FreeNAS uses a GPU.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

 

[Stux]

You'd probably be a better person to ask than most, then. What are your thoughts on the 1245 xeon? I realise that FreeNAS won't utilise the iGPU, but my thought was that since one of my primary uses for this NAS will be to run PLEX, this might provide some advantages in terms of hardware acceleration for transcoding

As far as FreeNAS is concerned, the 1245 is a 1240. The 1240 is just a clock speed bump compared to the 1230. I haven't checked exactly with this generation, but in the past it was circa 6% faster for 10% more. Your choice.

Theoretically, one day, you may be able to make use of the iGPU... but that's doubtful.