BUILD first sever-low budget

[Mohamed Mohsen]

hey guys :)
this is like the title my first server build and i live in Egypt so that means not all the stuff are available here and the customs are high .
i wanna to acknowledge the supermicro motherboards are the way to go "i know that" but it's kinda hard to get it here and it will be so expensive "aftr adding the shipping and customs" so i have two options
BTW : i want to run plex and download torrent on it and back up my files so i guess go with ZFS (raidz2) if you have any suggestion please
First
to build a normal low budget PC and not keep it on all the time
i have this in mind

Processor :

AMD A4-6300 Richland 3.7GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) Socket FM2 65W Dual-Core Desktop APU ----->400 Egyptian pounds
or
AMD A6-6400K Richland 3.9GHz Socket FM2 65W Dual-Core Desktop APU - Black Edition --->500Egyptian pounds

for the motherboard

MSI A88XM-E35 Socket FM2+ Motherboard ----> 500 Egyptian pounds
http://www.egprices.com/en/product/msi-a88xm-e35-socket...

and RAM

G.skill RipjawsX 16GB (2 X 8GB) DDR3 1866 CL9 1.5v Dual Channel Memory Kit ---< 1400 Egyptian pounds

and for the Hards

3 X Western Digital WD Red WD30EFRX 3TB SATA 6Gb/s 64 MB NAS HDD ---> 3000 Egyptian pounds

this will cost around 5500 Egyptian pounds without the power and case (1$=7.5 Egyptian pounds)
Second
use an old workstation/server like (Dell T7400 --- > too expensive 7000 Egyptian pound = 935$)
or (Server Sun fire x4250 --> 4000 Egyptian pound = 533$)
or (DELL PRECISION T5500 INTEL XEON--->3000 =400$)
http://arabhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?t=411386
then add the Hards and add memory
or something like those
i think this is the most cost and "power" for a server, i even could install visualization software and add more servers later but is theses servers/workstations compatible with freenas

so kindly help me with this issue, any tip/suggestions will be great
thank you in advance

 

[kayot]

I suggest reading -> https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/hardware-recommendations-read-this-first.23069/

They say don't use AMD or MSI.

 

[marbus90]

No consumer-crap in general. Had my fair share of troubles with Gaming-PCs reused for servers, nope, not going to do that again.

Best (still by far not a good) choice is the Dell T5500.

 

[Mohamed Mohsen]

No consumer-crap in general. Had my fair share of troubles with Gaming-PCs reused for servers, nope, not going to do that again.

Best (still by far not a good) choice is the Dell T5500.

so this one or HP xw6600 Workstation http://arabhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?t=412201
it has 2 processors and i could add 16 G RAM

 

[Mohamed Mohsen]

t

I suggest reading -> https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/hardware-recommendations-read-this-first.23069/

They say don't use AMD or MSI.

thank you i already red it but as i said it's so expensive and hard to get supermicro motherboards
you can help me choose a used server :)

 

[kayot]

I'm new to the server world. I just went ahead and got the recommended parts to make sure I didn't blow it. In my case, it's been a long time coming.

You can't make a Raidz2 with only 3 hard disks. It requires 4, and you would be better off using a Raid 10 2+2 mirror in that case. You'd get a nice speed boost and have perfect redundancy. Raid is for using large batches of drives 5+ with minimal space loss, Raidz1 for 3-5 drives, Raidz2 for 6-10 drives, Raidz3 for 11 - 15 drives. Basically, every five drives, add a parity level. To be honest, it's better to work in batches of 8 with a Raidz2 and just put the pools together. Also, Raid isn't a replacement for backups. You need to keep backups because if you loose n+1 drives, your array is gone. The point of raid is to maximize available space and keep uptime. You can still access all of your data when the array is degraded (missing <=n disks) but it's slow and dangerous as it puts extra wear and tear on your other drives.

You need to do some serious reading and decide how important your data is to you. I suggest reading Wikipedia's entries on ZFS, BSD, Parity, ECC, and do some research on what you want. There is no, one size fits all. There are other options as well that arn't as overkill as FreeNAS. If you don't care about speed, you can use Linux with aufs or mhddfs, both of which just pool the contents of all drives into a single mount point. It's sloppy, but I've used it before. Aufs is in the Kernel and much faster than mhddfs, but it has ghost delete problems where files don't get deleted (or moves get missreported). mhddfs is very nice, but slower than aufs. A good place to research mhddfs is https://romanrm.net/mhddfs

I've read that there is some command in linux that will make sure there are two copies of every file (on different drives) so that the loss of one drive will mean no data loss, but that's basically a watered down mirror.

There are other paid solutions such as drivepool which does the above in windows.

What I've been using is a drivepool + snapraid solution. This could easily be a mhddfs + snapraid solution.

Basically you mount your drives in linux, I suggest using ext4. Then you invoke mhddfs on the mount points to make a new point which is an overlay of all the file systems. You can change how files are added to the pool, such as most free space, or round robin. I use most free space to keep the drives in balence. Then you download and compile snapraid (there are guides on this, use google) set it up and run it. You'll need at least one empty drive (the largest one) to store the parity file. Snapraid is like Raid4 with additional levels depending on the number of drives you're willing to sacrifice to it. I have 12 2TB drives with 2 sacrificed to snapraid to give myself a raid6 like protection. It's saved my bacon on five separate occasions. two drive deaths and three huge delete errors. It works like backup + raid, but unlike raid or zfs, while it's rebuiling the missing drive, you can't access the data. In fact, you don't want to touch anything while it's doing it's magic. Your snapraid is only as good as your most recent sync. Mine syncs nightly.

So for your question - If you are using desktop grade equipment, you shouldn't bother with FreeNAS. FreeNAS is overkill for your use. Use something like FreeBSD or if you're not familiar with hardcore Unix, try out something like Debian/Ubuntu Server. Practice with server operating systems for a while since they are fundementaly different to desktop operating systems. There are Web User Interfaces for Linux. You can also put software on the system and remote access them with SSH, which is how I did it and will do it with FreeNAS when installing something unoffical.

A major selling point for the SUPERMICRO for me was the IPMI which means I can put the monitor on my current server away forever. No more lugging it to my room to do whatever. I can leave it in the craw space (it's freezing all year round in there) and not worry about it.

 

[Mohamed Mohsen]

I'm new to the server world. I just went ahead and got the recommended parts to make sure I didn't blow it. In my case, it's been a long time coming.

thank you for your very informative reply, i have to read it when i'm not sick
but a quick question i've in mind that i would put all my media on this Freenas (maybe) install virtualization software like esxi(incase i got the used servers "check my orginal post") and add more operating system later
and use plex plugin on Freenas to access my media with a nice interface
and the backup was a good option (all the file are movies, TV series, music and photos)
i will read more about zfs
but if you gonna give an advice should i get a used server like
DELL PRECISION T5500 http://arabhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?t=409323
orhttp://arabhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?t=412201
HP xw6600 Workstation http://arabhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?t=412201
thank you again for your feedback

 

[joeschmuck]

I can't read the language in those links.

If you do consider AMD, use an FX line like the FX4300 such as the one I have been using for years now. If you can purchase the system I have, you will be fine for a basic FreeNAS system and it will transcode with Plex and do all sorts of things. AMD is fine to use and it meets the hardware specs.

I looked at the currency exchange rates and the costs seem similar to what I'd have to pay in US Dollars but I have no idea what additional you would have to pay for customs rates.

If you can I'd still try to push you into a Supermicro board with IPMI, you will not hate yourself for doing that.

 

[gpsguy]

You might want to contact @DaNilePharaoh. He lives in Cairo and built a "PowerSchmuck" ™ system that is similar to what joeschmuck is running.

 

[joeschmuck]

You know, I haven't heard much about his project in a while. I'm curious how it's going. He did some rather unique work creating his system.

 

[Mohamed Mohsen]

I can't read the language in those links.

If you do consider AMD, use an FX line like the FX4300 such as the one I have been using for years now. If you can purchase the system I have, you will be fine for a basic FreeNAS system and it will transcode with Plex and do all sorts of things. AMD is fine to use and it meets the hardware specs.

I looked at the currency exchange rates and the costs seem similar to what I'd have to pay in US Dollars but I have no idea what additional you would have to pay for customs rates.

If you can I'd still try to push you into a Supermicro board with IPMI, you will not hate yourself for doing that.

thanks for the info about the AMD
about the customs i will pay it if i order something that is not available in egypt "including the Supermicro" i checked and we have
http://www.egprices.com/en/search/?q=amd+fx-4100+3.6ghz+quad+core+12mb+processor+am3+
but what do you think about the used servers ?? some of them has 2 processors

{
but if you gonna give an advice should i get a used server like
DELL PRECISION T5500 http://arabhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?t=409323
or
HP xw6600 Workstation http://arabhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?t=412201
thank you again for your feedback
}

i'm waiting to hear your opinion :)

 

[Mohamed Mohsen]

You might want to contact @DaNilePharaoh. He lives in Cairo and built a "PowerSchmuck" ™ system that is similar to what joeschmuck is running.

thank man i'll try to contact him :)

 

[DaNilePharaoh]

You know, I haven't heard much about his project in a while. I'm curious how it's going. He did some rather unique work creating his system.

Thanx for the compliment my friend :) I simply haven't seen my bed since November 2014 hahahahah, its the high season in advertising. I really miss this project and i can't wait to get back to it.
Wish you all had a Merry Christmas and best of luck in 2015

 

[DaNilePharaoh]

thank man i'll try to contact him :)

Sent you my contact details bro. please do not hesitate to contact me any time.

I have been in your shoes few month ago, My opinion, do not go with any of your choices of SERVER for the following reasons:
- Why to go "Used, Outdated" when you can buy "Newer, Cheaper, Guaranteed" parts?!
- You might find hard times getting the right spare parts for these servers in our market (like system fans, ram upgrades, PSU etc).

For your choice of AMD:
- A6 AMD does not support ECC memory, go for the FX series as Mr. @joeschmuck advised he is the AMD Pioneer on this forum.
- Probably I bought the last remaining piece of FX processors in Egypt :) it might be too late for you.

Things to take in consideration before you start your project:
- Do not expect yourself to spend less than a 1000$ on this project, that's why many ready made NAS boxes might be a cheaper (NOT BETTER) alternatives for Freenas if you are only going to use it as a media server - or do both if you can.
- Consider RAM and HDD cost before you start, Getting ECC RAM in Egypt is no joke you will have to import it.
- Now you can get Supermicro products and ECC RAM sticks in Egypt via services like Edfa3ly (1$ = 12 Egp. Approx) I tried them and they are very good.
(In my scenario I was afraid the Supermicro motherboards won't fit properly in my MDD case fun project so i decided not to risk)
- Your data security should be your #1 priority, So stick to the Hardware Recommendations by @cyberjock as you will find great support through this forum for your system when S@#$$t hits the fan.

Suggested build:
- Supermicro X9SCM-F - via Edfa3ly 2150 Egp.
- Crucial 16GB Kit (8GBx2) DDR3L 1600MT/s (PC3-12800) DR x8 ECC UDIMM 240-Pin Server Memory CT2KIT102472BD160B - via Edfa3ly 2150 Egp.
- Your choice of Intel Pentium, I3 or Xeon E3 CPU and Western Digital Red or Green Storage HDD, Case and Power supply - Available Locally. (Based on your remaining budget)

Good Luck

 

[Mohamed Mohsen]

hey @DaNilePharaoh :)
thanks
so how i see it :
the pros of used servers

• all the components are server grade
  
• some of them has dual processors
  
• the RAM is ECC
• and quite cheap

and i was thinking of installing "Free VMware vSphere Hypervisor" on the "Bare Metal" then install the freeNAS and then add a couple more servers
for Example : hp xw6600 Workstation http://arabhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?t=412201
has 32 G RAM and dual processors "kindly check it" and for 2600 Egyptian Pound = 350 $
waiting to hear from all of you guys

 

[pirateghost]

hey @DaNilePharaoh :)
thanks
so how i see it :
the pros of used servers

• all the components are server grade
  
• some of them has dual processors
  
• the RAM is ECC
• and quite cheap

and i was thinking of installing "Free VMware vSphere Hypervisor" on the "Bare Metal" then install the freeNAS and then add a couple more servers
for Example : hp xw6600 Workstation http://arabhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?t=412201
has 32 G RAM and dual processors "kindly check it" and for 2600 Egyptian Pound = 350 $
waiting to hear from all of you guys

Please read the warnings in these forums about virtualization...

 

[joeschmuck]

You should not virtualize FreeNAS however you will assume the risks if you do.

 

[Mohamed Mohsen]

@pirateghost @joeschmuck so i guess it's better to go with 2 different Builds for Freenas and ESXi
i don't wanna complicate things for now
okay let me focus on the Freenas first :)
is the DELL PRECISION T5500 compatible with freenas ??

 

[gpsguy]

Yes. I think you'll find most of us, run FreeNAS and ESXi on separate servers.

While I've been using VMware for a number of years and pay $$$ for it at work, it's safer for me, just to run two servers in my home lab.

pirateghost, joeschmuck so i guess it's better to go with 2 different Builds for Freenas and ESXi

 

[DaNilePharaoh]

is the DELL PRECISION T5500 compatible with freenas ??

Theoretically yes, but you need at least 16gb of ram, to run Freenas smoothly...
the Dell T5500 has 9 DIMM Slots, it supports ECC Registered Dimms, up to 8GB/Slot for a maximum of 72GB.
What you will find in our market is "USED" 1 or 2gb only, so the maximum you can get is 2gb*9=18gb of ram.
each will cost you around 150 Egp. x 7 pieces = 1050 Egp. (you have already 2*2gb installed on the machine)
you need also an Intel NIC but i got one used for less than 5$

RAM = 1050 L.E
Machine = 2400 L.E
---------------------
Total = 3450 L.E.

which i believe is too much for a used, outdated and impossible to upgrade machine in compare to a new recommended build :)