BUILD First NAS (Free-NAS) build, would like some advice.

[Eispo]

Hello overyone, this is my first post on the forum, so be a bit gentle :D
I've been surfing the forums, looking at builds and reading whatever advice the sticky sections has to offer when it comes to hardware. The problem is, I'm from Greece, hence a lot hardware mentioned here from newegg is not available to my country (from comments that I've read, even to Europe in general).

Anyways, to cut to the chase, I found a website that imports all kinds of "Enterprise grade" hardware, that are not for the everyday consumer (server motherboards etc). From my scouting here, a complete build should have: Case, Motherboard, Ram, CPU, PSU, SSD (for cache), and of course, the HDDs.

Now, from all the hardware I could find (pretty limited, not a large variety), I came up with the following:

- Case: "Fractal Design Define R4 (Window)", not so much of a problem, there are plenty vendors here that have all kinds of cases.
- Motherboard: "SuperMicro Socket 1150 MBD-X10SLM-F-O", one of the few that had onboard IPMI.
- RAM: "Kingston 32GB DDR3 ECC CL11 1600MHz (KVR16R11S4K4/32) (Kit 4 x 8192)", since there was a kit, I thought why not max out the dimms, since the MoBo can't handle more that 32GB.
- CPU: "Intel Pentium G3470 3.6 GHz Dual Core Socket 1150 53W (BX80646G3470)".


Questions:
I think that the motherboard is good. It has everything mentioned in the guidelines by the sticky post (yes, I made a list and checked every motherboard pretty much). As for the RAM, it's nearly impossible to find the "Tested Ram" in the SuperMicro website, available here. I read that Kingston is not recommended, but apart from that, there are only Crucial ones (that are ECC of course). As for the CPU, I read that we want high clock, since we use single-core (am I wrong? Could be that I got confused), and the G3470 isn't that much of a difference between the 3200, (I think) that is recommend.

Other things I could use as mentioned above:
RAM: "Crucial 16GB DDR3 ECC CL11 1600MHz (CT204872BB160B)"

Please note that I have very little choice as to what hardware I can use. So my real question here is, can we make it work with what I have?


So that leaves the PSU, SSD, and HDD.
I plan on maxing out the SATA ports, so 4x WD REDS (don't know about the capacity yet).
That leaves 2 other ports. I read that I must have an SSD for file CACHE. There goes one port, and we have one left, which I believe a 30GB SSD will do fine for the OS?

Questions vol2:
I read on some posts, (and I think on the recommended section of the website), that I should do well, to have two SSDs Mirrored for Caching. And I'm confident that there was something about mirroring the OS too. I believe that was on the "enterprise" section. I don't really need that, do I? I mean, maybe having two SSDs for Cache, but two for the OS? Also, if I'm going 4x4TB WD Reds, I'm at 16TB. Would the 32GB be too much RAM? I'm pretty negative on using higher capacity HDDs, the only way to have more than 16TB (and needing >16GB RAM), is through a 5th HDD. But then, I would have to use the OS through some USB. Is that recommended? I know that some people did it, but since I read that there are builds that have the OS on mirrored SSD (for security?), should I really have it on a flash drive?


Giving some answers to your questions:
Now that I think about it, some of you might be, "How can we know if you should do this or that, it depends on what you wanna do!". So, let's clarify what I want from my NAS.

24/7 Uptime
12-16TB RAW storage (if I can have more through 5th or 6th HDD, that would be great, but buying bigger HDDs is really cost-inefficient in case of failure.)
Gigabit Network Speeds (which I thing is covered by the motherboard)
and 1-2, maximum 3, simultaneous users through network.

Questions vol3:
Please, considering all the above, what PSU should I use? From my "calculations" 500W should be ok since they add up to 350W or so.

After giving it some thought while writing this, do you thing it would be wise to use a flash drive for the operating system, and a PCI-E SSD for caching? I could end up freeing the other two SATA and use more HHDs

Thank you guys for reading, and any reply would be welcome!

 

[Jailer]

I read that I must have an SSD for file CACHE.

Not true at all and most likely will hinder performance on the system you've spec'd out.

I'm a fan of an SSD for the OS but in your case I'd go USB and use all the available SATA ports for hard drives. In your scenario it's a trade off that is well worth it. Just make sure your config is backed up and even if a USB drive fails getting back up running again is painless with a fresh install and backed up config file.

Stick with your plan of 4TB drives but get 6 of them in and configure them in a RAIDZ2 configuration. This gives you data security (you do care about that correct?) and will meet the storage capacity you have requested. For performance reasons you don't want to fill your pool past 80% so that factors into your usable space as well.

A 500 watt PSU from a quality manufacturer would be a good choice for this build.

 

[Spearfoot]

Hello overyone, this is my first post on the forum, so be a bit gentle :D
I've been surfing the forums, looking at builds and reading whatever advice the sticky sections has to offer when it comes to hardware. The problem is, I'm from Greece, hence a lot hardware mentioned here from newegg is not available to my country (from comments that I've read, even to Europe in general).

Anyways, to cut to the chase, I found a website that imports all kinds of "Enterprise grade" hardware, that are not for the everyday consumer (server motherboards etc). From my scouting here, a complete build should have: Case, Motherboard, Ram, CPU, PSU, SSD (for cache), and of course, the HDDs.

Now, from all the hardware I could find (pretty limited, not a large variety), I came up with the following:

Case: "Fractal Design Define R4 (Window)", not so much of a problem, there are plenty vendors here that have all kinds of cases.
Motherboard: "SuperMicro Socket 1150 MBD-X10SLM-F-O", one of the few that had onboard IPMI.
RAM: "Kingston 32GB DDR3 ECC CL11 1600MHz (KVR16R11S4K4/32) (Kit 4 x 8192)", since there was a kit, I thought why not max out the dimms, since the MoBo can't handle more that 32GB.
CPU: "Intel Pentium G3470 3.6 GHz Dual Core Socket 1150 53W (BX80646G3470)".


Questions:
I think that the motherboard is good. It has everything mentioned in the guidelines by the sticky post (yes, I made a list and checked every motherboard pretty much). As for the RAM, it's nearly impossible to find the "Tested Ram" in the SuperMicro website, available here. I read that Kingston is not recommended, but apart from that, there are only Crucial ones (that are ECC of course). As for the CPU, I read that we want high clock, since we use single-core (am I wrong? Could be that I got confused), and the G3470 isn't that much of a difference between the 3200, (I think) that is recommend.

Other things I could use as mentioned above:
RAM: "Crucial 16GB DDR3 ECC CL11 1600MHz (CT204872BB160B)"

Please note that I have very little choice as to what hardware I can use. So my real question here is, can we make it work with what I have?

Yes, your choices should work, provided the Pentium you've selected is compatible with the motherboard. Given a choice, and if I were you... I would choose the Crucial RAM instead of the Kingston.

So that leaves the PSU, SSD, and HDD.
I plan on maxing out the SATA ports, so 4x WD REDS (don't know about the capacity yet).
That leaves 2 other ports. I read that I must have an SSD for file CACHE. There goes one port, and we have one left, which I believe a 30GB SSD will do fine for the OS?

This motherboard has 6 SATA ports and a built-in Type-A USB port, so you could install FreeNAS to a USB flash drive and use all 6 SATA ports for hard drives, if you wish. For your use-case, you don't need an SSD for cache.

Questions vol2:
I read on some posts, (and I think on the recommended section of the website), that I should do well, to have two SSDs Mirrored for Caching. And I'm confident that there was something about mirroring the OS too. I believe that was on the "enterprise" section. I don't really need that, do I? I mean, maybe having two SSDs for Cache, but two for the OS? Also, if I'm going 4x4TB WD Reds, I'm at 16TB. Would the 32GB be too much RAM? I'm pretty negative on using higher capacity HDDs, the only way to have more than 16TB (and needing >16GB RAM), is through a 5th HDD. But then, I would have to use the OS through some USB. Is that recommended? I know that some people did it, but since I read that there are builds that have the OS on mirrored SSD (for security?), should I really have it on a flash drive?

Yes, you could install FreeNAS to a pair of SSD drives, it supports a mirrored installation. As you mention, that would leave you only 4 SATA ports for hard drives. Again, you probably don't need a cache (see this thread). And 32GB isn't 'too much' RAM -- ZFS loves memory and, in general, will use as much as you give it! You could, if necessary, get by with 16GB, but if you choose this route, buy 2 x 8GB sticks instead of 4 x 4GB -- this will allow you to upgrade in the future. As mentioned in the thread I mentioned above, there's no point in installing an L2ARC if you haven't installed the maximum RAM on your system.

Giving some answers to your questions:
Now that I think about it, some of you might be, "How can we know if you should do this or that, it depends on what you wanna do!". So, let's clarify what I want from my NAS.

24/7 Uptime
12-16TB RAW storage (if I can have more through 5th or 6th HDD, that would be great, but buying bigger HDDs is really cost-inefficient in case of failure.)
Gigabit Network Speeds (which I thing is covered by the motherboard)
and 1-2, maximum 3, simultaneous users through network.

Questions vol3:
Please, considering all the above, what PSU should I use? From my "calculations" 500W should be ok since they add up to 350W or so.

Yes, a PSU on the order of 500W or more should be adequate.

After giving it some thought while writing this, do you thing it would be wise to use a flash drive for the operating system, and a PCI-E SSD for caching? I could end up freeing the other two SATA and use more HHDs

I mentioned this above (booting from USB flash and using 6 drives). And yes, you could use a PCI-E SSD for a cache device but -- one last time! -- I'll point out that you probably don't need a cache device at all.

Thank you guys for reading, and any reply would be welcome!

You're welcome, and welcome to the forum! Good luck!

 

[CraigD]

Getting hardware outside of USA can be hard and expensive

Do you have access to Amazon? If so you can get theX10 and X11 boards on it and you can get RAM that is on the compliance list (well I did for my X10 board)

The above post above covers the rest

Have Fun

Not true at all and most likely will hinder performance on the system you've spec'd out.

I'm a fan of an SSD for the OS but in your case I'd go USB and use all the available SATA ports for hard drives. In your scenario it's a trade off that is well worth it. Just make sure your config is backed up and even if a USB drive fails getting back up running again is painless with a fresh install and backed up config file.

Stick with your plan of 4TB drives but get 6 of them

 

[ChriZ]

Hello.
Motherboard and CPU seem fine.
Regarding RAM, if you can go with Crucial then do it.. 16 GB should be enough for your workload.
The O/S can be installed on a USB stick, or two mirrored for maximum uptime.
Provided you save the configuration, then you can simply perform a clean install, restore the configuration and you are back in business.
So even a single USB stick is fine
The ideal O/S medium would be a small/cheap SSD, but with the 6 port limitation it is better not to waste sata ports.
As for SSD cache, you don't need anything like that.
Regarding your storage, now. What is your plan for redundancy?
You mentioned about 16TB of raw storage, but depending on your redundancy, the usable storage will be very different.
The recommended configuration is a 6disk RaidZ2 setup; Using 4TB disks you end up with approx. 14TB of usable storage and your data can survive two disk fails.

Edit:writing a post on the smartphone is time consuming.. Half of the forum posted before I write my post, lolll

 

[Eispo]

Edit:writing a post on the smartphone is time consuming.. Half of the forum posted before I write my post, lolll

hahaha, I KNOW RIGHT? All of you guys are being extremely helpful, thank you all so much. So, back in business:

Follow up questions:
I googled it, but it seems that a lot of different subjects are turning up, and if you can't find something on google's result's first page, it doesn't exist, right? :D
What is better (and I'm asking because if the huge price difference), "Western Digital 4TB Caviar Red WD40EFRX SATA III 5400rpm 64MB" or "Western Digital 4TB RE WD4000FYYZ SATA III 7200rpm 64MB".
Well, we're into computer science here, so the correct question is, "what are the differences", unless one is completely better than the other! I can see the RPM difference, but I really have doubts about the RPM being the speed bottleneck.

Regarding your storage, now. What is your plan for redundancy?

I didn't have a specific plan, I mean, if it weren't for you guys, I would end up using mirror or some other inefficient RAID config,(or I would take my time planning the hardware and worry about RAID later) but RaidZ2 setup with 6x4TB I end up with 16TB of RAID-ed storage instead 20TB Raw (from my google search RaidZ2 Calculator that I used).

The O/S can be installed on a USB stick, or two mirrored for maximum uptime.

I don't understand by "maximum uptime". The uptime of the machine depends on how many mirrors of the OS there are?

Again, thank you guys so much for your replies, have a nice day you awesome people!

 

[Eispo]

Following your advice, I will end up using the following: 4x(Crucial 8GB DDR3 ECC CL11 1600MHz (CT102472BB160B))

 

[CraigD]

FreeNAS boots from your boot device and loads into RAM and the boot device is rarely accessed again

In testing I pulled the FreeNAS boot drive and everything still worked

Any drive can and will fail so a back up of you boot drive is a good idea

One of my data drives failed this is why I use freeNAS

Try this calculator @Bidule0hm has made. To get 16TB of usable data with RAIDz2 you need 6x6TB drives Edit: 5TB drives not 6TB drives

Good choice on Crucial RAM you may have noticed everyone commenting in this thread is using Crucial RAM and the same X10 motherboard

Have Fun
PS It brought my hardware after reading for 1 month don't rush

 

[Eispo]

To get 16TB of usable data with RAIDz2 you need 6x6TB drives Edit: 5TB drives not 6TB drives

But in the picture I attached, it says Total Data Space: 16TB while it kept 8TB for parity Space. But what is Usable Data space that is 12.6TB?

 

[ChriZ]

I don't understand by "maximum uptime". The uptime of the machine depends on how many mirrors of the OS there are?

Poor choice of words, perhaps...
Suppose you turn off the system or reboot it for some reason and the boot medium fails. It usually happens (Murphy sucks..) that specific moment when you said "OK after the reboot i will relax watching a movie from my NAS"
With one O/S drive you will have to find a spare usb, turn on another PC, perhaps, in order to prepare that other usb and/or access the config backup etc, etc, etc
With mirrored drives, even if one of them fails, you still have the O/S in the other and you can schedule the repair for later

But in the picture I attached, it says Total Data Space: 16TB while it kept 8TB for parity Space. But what is Usable Data space that is 12.6TB?

A 4TB drive in reality offers about 3.6TB of space.
This is a little above 14TB.
But if the pool is almost full, the performance sucks, so about 12.6 is as far as you can get without a serious performance impact

 

[CraigD]

But in the picture I attached, it says Total Data Space: 16TB while it kept 8TB for parity Space. But what is Usable Data space that is 12.6TB?

Yes 12.6TB usable

Remember ZFS is a copy on write file system because of this it is recommended that share don't use more than 80% of available space

 

[Jailer]

But in the picture I attached, it says Total Data Space: 16TB while it kept 8TB for parity Space. But what is Usable Data space that is 12.6TB?

You need to look at the usable data space number when using one of those calculators. It's the amount of storage space you can use without performance tanking on you. Configure your drive setup around usable space figure and choose the drive size, number and parity level you are comfortable with to achieve your goal.

 

[Stux]

I know it might be hard to obtain, but have you considered the X11 Skylake range of motherboards from Supermicro?

DDR4 RAM has just hit the inflection point where it is, or soon will be cheaper than DDR3 ram, and the X11 with Skylake supports newer more power efficient CPUs and 64GB of ram, and generally more SATA ports too.