Dell PowerEdge R710 used as a NAS?

[pwnerman]

Before I begin with my question I want to make it clear that I'm new to this type of computing and don't know much about all the different options so please bear with me on my questions. I also hope this is the right place to post this question.

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I want to build myself a NAS for my data. I am by no means a content creator or anything of the sort with business critical data but right now the only thing backing up my data is a software raid 1 with my pc and also an external hard drive I copy everything to periodically. Hardly an optimal setup.

I want to build myself a NAS because I want access to my data over my network even when my PC is off and I also want more protection for my data. Pretty common reasons to build a NAS.

First I was looking at company built NAS solutions from the likes of Synology and QNAP. An 8 drive unit from them is expensive to say the least.

Then I looked into building my own NAS because I built my own computers so I figured it would most likely be cheaper. Investigating my options I came across FreeNAS and along with it people who were putting FreeNAS on old servers. Reading some of the documentation on this site it is obvious FreeNAS needs a great deal of RAM and computing power for trans coding.

I realize the Dell PowerEdge R710 is an old device. But you can get them so cheap I'm curious if for building a NAS I would get more performance out of an R710 with an 6 core Xeon and like 48 gigs of RAM for like 250 bucks instead a newer system for no more then $500 USD.

I don't care about power usage or noise. I just really want to know if this is even a plausible idea or if the cost savings isn't worth the older hardware and such.

Thanks.

 

[Nick2253]

Dell PowerEdge R710

As a server (even an old one), an R710 would probably be sufficient. However, understand that the R710 is a family of products, and not all R710s are created equally. There are many different CPU, controller, RAM, etc. configurations, and it's difficult to give a definitive thumbs up/down without knowing the specific hardware you are looking to acquire.

I don't care about power usage or noise. I just really want to know if...the cost savings isn't worth the older hardware and such.

Power usage is cost savings. An older server platform may using two or three times more power than an equivalent server platform today, or four or five times more than an Avoton platform. That can translate to hundreds of dollars a year in savings. For example, at 14¢/kWh (Maryland residential average), a savings of 100W for a 24/7 server will save you $120/yr on your power bill. If you go from a server at 500W to a server running 100W, you can make back your hardware savings in only a few years.

 

[Mirfster]

If interested take a look at a Dell C2100/FS12-TY if you are considering a PowerEdge R710..

 

[pwnerman]

As a server (even an old one), an R710 would probably be sufficient. However, understand that the R710 is a family of products, and not all R710s are created equally. There are many different CPU, controller, RAM, etc. configurations, and it's difficult to give a definitive thumbs up/down without knowing the specific hardware you are looking to acquire.



Power usage is cost savings. An older server platform may using two or three times more power than an equivalent server platform today, or four or five times more than an Avoton platform. That can translate to hundreds of dollars a year in savings. For example, at 14¢/kWh (Maryland residential average), a savings of 100W for a 24/7 server will save you $120/yr on your power bill. If you go from a server at 500W to a server running 100W, you can make back your hardware savings in only a few years.

Thank you for the response. I should have mentioned that power consumption is of no issue for me because a perk of where I live is that electric is included in my bill for a flat rate.

 

[pwnerman]

As a server (even an old one), an R710 would probably be sufficient. However, understand that the R710 is a family of products, and not all R710s are created equally. There are many different CPU, controller, RAM, etc. configurations, and it's difficult to give a definitive thumbs up/down without knowing the specific hardware you are looking to acquire.

what about this setup just for the discussion

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerE...7f84e86e9:g:BqgAAOSwiYFXI3-0&autorefresh=true

 

[Spearfoot]

what about this setup just for the discussion

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerE...7f84e86e9:g:BqgAAOSwiYFXI3-0&autorefresh=true

That's a lot of computing power for the money! But I don't think the Dell PERC 6i RAID controller will work with FreeNAS.

Search for something similar, only with a PERC H200 controller. Or you could just buy an H200 separately for $50-100.

 

[Mirfster]

what about this setup just for the discussion

1. Holds only 8 Drives compare to C2100/FS12-TY holding 12 (+2x 2.5" internally)
   • Think there are "additional" option to increase drives; but not 100% sure
2. R710 only accepts 2.5" Drives
   • Will pay a premium for this
   • 2.5" drives are not available in larger capacities compared to 3.5" drives (Think 3, 4, 5, 6, 8+ TB)
     
   • C2100/FS12-TY; the 12 Trays can accept either 3.5" or 2.5" drives without any additional modifications
   • Again, I think there are options for the R710 but the one listed says "Backplane for 8 x 2.5" SAS or SATA Drives"
3. PERC6i
   • You don't really want this, you want a PERC H200 or IBM M1015 (they can be cross-flashed) or a true LSI 9211-8I
   • PERC6i is limited in that it can only see up to 2.2 TB of an actual Drive's space (if you attach a 4 TB Drive, it only recognizes 2.2 TB...)

I still stand by my Dell C2100/FS12-TY ;)

 

[pwnerman]

That's a lot of computing power for the money! But I don't think the Dell PERC 6i RAID controller will work with FreeNAS.

Search for something similar, only with a PERC H200 controller. Or you could just buy an H200 separately for $50-100.

yes i was reading as well that the PERC 6i card does not work with FreeNAS. So in your opinion that system would serve me fine for a NAS even with the older hardware?

 

[pwnerman]

1. Holds only 8 Drives compare to C2100/FS12-TY holding 12 (+2x 2.5" internally)
   • Think there are "additional" option to increase drives; but not 100% sure
2. R710 only accepts 2.5" Drives
   • Will pay a premium for this
   • 2.5" drives are not available in larger capacities compared to 3.5" drives (Think 3, 4, 5, 6, 8+ TB)
     
   • C2100/FS12-TY; the 12 Trays can accept either 3.5" or 2.5" drives without any additional modifications
   • Again, I think there are options for the R710 but the one listed says "Backplane for 8 x 2.5" SAS or SATA Drives"
3. PERC6i
   • You don't really want this, you want a PERC H200 or IBM M1015 (they can be cross-flashed) or a true LSI 9211-8I
   • PERC6i is limited in that it can only see up to 2.2 TB of an actual Drive's space (if you attach a 4 TB Drive, it only recognizes 2.2 TB...)

I still stand by my Dell C2100/FS12-TY ;)

Yes I noticed as well I linked to the 2.5 inch HDD model. I know they make a 3.5in HDD model but I think it's limited to 6 drives.

Also I was looking on ebay at the model you linked too and it seems to be even cheaper then the R710. Is that because it's even older then the R710?

I found two of the model you mention on ebay but I don't know why the cheaper one seems to have more features. 2 processors instead of one and the only differences I can see is it has half the ram and a little lower processor but you get two of them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerE...596944?hash=item3aaed99010:g:S9wAAOSw~gRVr9yF

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerE...404525?hash=item417ecf892d:g:HiUAAOxyXzxTJO5F

 

[Spearfoot]

yes i was reading as well that the PERC 6i card does not work with FreeNas. So in your opinion that system would serve me fine for a NAS even with the older hardware?

Well... it would probably work... But note @Mirfster's observations. I personally like Supermicro gear, but the Dell C2100/FS12-TY is very attractive, and can be had for very prices on eBay. Here's an example that's "Ready-to-Go", including 24GB of RAM and the H200 controller - just add disks:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerE...404525?hash=item417ecf892d:g:HiUAAOxyXzxTJO5F

 

[pwnerman]

Well... it would probably work... But note @Mirfster's observations. I personally like Supermicro gear, but the Dell C2100/FS12-TY is very attractive, and can be had for very prices on eBay. Here's an example that's "Ready-to-Go", including 24GB of RAM and the H200 controller - just add disks:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerE...404525?hash=item417ecf892d:g:HiUAAOxyXzxTJO5F

I happened to link to that same exact listing in my post above. Like I said above why is that one so much more expensive then the other I listed to? The cheaper one has 2 processors and half the ram and the PERC 6i card but the H200 costs like 50 bucks on ebay and im sure 16 more gigs of ram isn't expensive. So would the cheaper one be a better deal if I bought those two things by themselves and added them?

 

[Mirfster]

Also I was looking on ebay at the model you linked too and it seems to be even cheaper then the R710. Is that because it's even older then the R710?

Around the same time frame, I believe the C2100/FS12-TY is slightly newer. Basically the C2100/FS12-TY is a "specialized" design for DCS "Dell Cloud Services". The R710 is more of a genuine Dell Model, but both are going to be way beyond warranty anyways.

Only things you really get with the R710 that you won't with the C2100/FS12-TY are things like

• Dell iDRAC, but C2100/FS12-TY has a dedicated IPMI which is perfectly fine
• Ability to use Dell "Rapid Rails" and "Cable Management" attachments
• "Official" Dell support

DDS "DeepDiscountServers" are a really top-notch seller; but their stuff usually does run a little more. The "Cheaper One" you listed *may* have the older backplane since the PERC 6/i does not use the normal Min-SAS connectors, while the other one should (since it has a PERC H200).

I have actually been in contact with several eBay sellers to see about them offering a "Turn-Key FreeNAS" version (DDS was one of them). As of right now, the two I would suggest:

Esisonic's ($415.00): DELL FS12-TY C2100 2x QUAD CORE L5630 2.13GHz 48GB RAM 12x TRAY H200

dfwcomputers ($300 - $350): Dell Poweredge C2100 2x Xeon E5630 2.53ghz Quad Core / 32gb / H200 / 2x 750w

• While they have not officially posted a configuration (yet), we have been communicating and they seem very willing, bet you can ask them for this and they will honor it
• I have not officially announced this yet, since before I do I would personally purchase one myself and check it out to be sure that it is as desired
• If so inclined, here is the communications I have been having with them:

From: dfwcomputers
To: mirfster
Subject: Re: Other: mirfster sent a message about Dell Poweredge C2100 2x Xeon E5630 2.53ghz Quad Core / 32gb / H200 / 2x 750w #142029722196
Sent Date: Jun-22-16 09:11:52 PDT
Dear mirfster,

that is correct
- dfwcomputers




From: mirfster
To: dfwcomputers
Subject: Re: Other: mirfster sent a message about Dell Poweredge C2100 2x Xeon E5630 2.53ghz Quad Core / 32gb / H200 / 2x 750w #142029722196
Sent Date: Jun-22-16 07:41:42 PDT
Dear dfwcomputers,

Understood, so with shipping (call it $60.00 for the lower 48 states) and the items mentioned in our communication are we looking at $300.00 to $350.00 total?
- mirfster




From: dfwcomputers
To: mirfster
Subject: Re: Other: mirfster sent a message about Dell Poweredge C2100 2x Xeon E5630 2.53ghz Quad Core / 32gb / H200 / 2x 750w #142029722196
Sent Date: Jun-22-16 07:11:08 PDT
Dear mirfster,

On average shipping will be $50-55.
Closer to Texas will be less. Further away and to the NE or NW will be more.
- dfwcomputers




From: mirfster
To: dfwcomputers
Subject: Re: Other: mirfster sent a message about Dell Poweredge C2100 2x Xeon E5630 2.53ghz Quad Core / 32gb / H200 / 2x 750w #142029722196
Sent Date: Jun-21-16 16:10:28 PDT
Dear dfwcomputers,

Understood, just wanted to know what the cost would be for reference.
- mirfster




From: dfwcomputers
To: mirfster
Subject: Re: Other: mirfster sent a message about Dell Poweredge C2100 2x Xeon E5630 2.53ghz Quad Core / 32gb / H200 / 2x 750w #142029722196
Sent Date: Jun-21-16 12:03:36 PDT
Dear mirfster,

Shipping is not included
There is too much cost difference
- dfwcomputers




From: mirfster
To: dfwcomputers
Subject: Re: Other: mirfster sent a message about Dell Poweredge C2100 2x Xeon E5630 2.53ghz Quad Core / 32gb / H200 / 2x 750w #142029722196
Sent Date: Jun-20-16 15:58:04 PDT
dfwcomputers:

yes
Your previous message

If providing a 9211-8I worked for the same price, that would be great.
dfwcomputers:

It sounds like you are asking a quote for this same machine you are asking the question on.
I would only recommend that instead of flashing an H200 card, we actually install an 9211-8i.
I really don't feel comfortable flashing a card. There is too much risk of bricking the card and losing the value of it.
It would be an even trade.
Your previous message

C6100 is a fine computer, but the C2100 is a tried and true tested platform that is cheaper and much more quite (with the correct BMC Firmware).

This would be pretty much would be a great mid level system that a lot of people would flock to:
Chassis: C2100/FS12-TY
CPUs: 2X Xeon E5630 or L5639
Whichever is better/easier for you
CPU Heasinks: 2X Need to be the ones with the Copper Faceplate (Future Proofing)
Memory: 32 GB ECC DDR3 1333MHz (4 x 8GB is Preferred; Samsung "Green" would be even better)
Controller: PERC H200 (with 2X Mini-SAS Cables)
Cross-Flashed to LSI 9211-8I IT Mode using P20 Firmware
This is one thing that makes it really nice for potential FreeNas purchasers
Power Supplies: 2X 750w (With power cords)
Hard Drives: None; Usually they purchase these separately
Hard Drive Trays: 12X (with screws)
Screws are a nice bonus, otherwise they can get them from Amazon for ~$8.50/100 Pcs
Example Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00353EKR8/?tag=ozlp-20
Just would add value to the whole "Turn-Key" solution
Rails: None
Some may ask for it, but doubtful for most people

Bonuses that would really make it appealing to those wanting to use it FreeNas:
1) Have B16 version of the BIOS installed
A) Allows for ESXi 6.0 U2 to be installed if desired
B) Having FreeNas run within ESXi is a growing trend
2) Have BMC Firmware 1.66 installed
A) This makes the system super quiet, so much so that it is a large reason I recommend the C2100/FS12-TY
B) Up to 1.70 works (but usually causes a couple "Unknown Sensor" type messages in BMC Logs that serve no purpose)
3) Having the PERC H200 already cross-flashed to LSA 9211-8I IT Mode with P20
A) Countless times this has to be addressed for "New" FreeNas Users and is a great selling point
4) Include 8x Screws and Washers for mounting 2.5" drives internally
A) Not a show stopper, but again adds to the entire "Turn-Key" solution
5) Two SATA Cables (for connecting internal drives)
dfwcomputers:

What are the specs you are wanting to include?
You might want to consider the C6100
Your previous message

Hello,

I was wondering if you would consider a configuration that would essentially be a "Turn Key" solution for FreeNas? I am a forums contributor over at FreeNas.org and have suggested/recommended the C2100/FS12-TY as a great system for those wanting to get started with FreeNas and a Rack Server.

If you all were willing to make a couple slight changes/modifications (BIOS, BMC Firmware, H200 Cross-Flashed to 9211-8I IT Mode with P20, etc) then it would truly be a benefit getting additional purchasers. For reference, here is a link to the thread I created: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/ode-to-the-dell-c2100-fs12-ty.43665/.

If you want to discuss I would be more than happy to, then you could even list it as a "Turn Key FreeNas".

Thanks.

 

[pwnerman]

I'm a little confused now. What is a "Turn-Key FreeNAS" version? Does that mean that device you linked to is FreeNAS ready and already has it installed or something? If i would get that one for $415.00 that you linked too what exactly would I need to do to get it up and running? I wanted to use WD Red or Seagate NAS drives. I just want to make sure everything is compatible and ready to go.

 

[Mirfster]

I'm a little confused now. What is a "Turn-Key FreeNAS" version?

To me it would be along the lines of:

1. Add your drives
2. Install OS
3. Configure, Begin the "Burn In Process", etc.

Should not really need to bring too much extra to the table, maybe small things like BIOS/Firmware updates, perhaps flashing a card (like the PERC H200) and BIOS configuration (Set date/time, enable NICs, etc); but overall it should help take the "guess work" out of building the system mostly.

Nothing wrong at all with anyone wanting to design, purchase parts and build their own; I just find it simpler to have a consistent model/platform that I can use for various solutions.

 

[Phat Frog]

I have a pallet of old R710 with the 6 x 3.5 2TB drives. I use FreeNAS at home. This sounds very appealing to me. So is it possible? Talk Greek to me as I am an IT System Admin, Linux coding crazy guy. This is BSD but I love the interface. What config variables do I need these servers to have? I previously used them for virtualization servers before retiring them. We have three factories with over 460 users. Would make great back up servers instead of resold or dumpstered.

 

[pwnerman]

I have a pallet of old R710 with the 6 x 3.5 2TB drives. I use freenas at home. This sounds very appealing to me. So is it possible? Talk Greek to me as I am an IT System Admin, Linux coding crazy guy. This is BSD but I love the interface. What config variables do I need these servers to have? I previously used them for virtualization servers before retiring them. We have three factories with over 460 users. Would make great back up servers instead of resold or dumpstered.

I'm not any sort of expert man but if you want to use them as a NAS for backup purposes I see no reason why that wouldn't work. If you wanted to use FreeNAS you would need a RAID card that would be able to be flashed into IT Mode which is what FreeNAS needs. The H200 is one you are most likely familiar with since you have so much Dell stuff. There are others. I don't know if that is what you are implying you would use them for exactly but yea if you have the right RAID card you can use the R710's as network attached storage. As for the configs nothing really matters except the RAID card. it needs to be flashed into IT mode because FreeNas doesn't play nicely with logical disks which is what RAID card uses.

I think that is right. I'm just mashing up everything people have told me.

 

[wblock]

I would go with the H310 because of this: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/dell-h200-versus-h310-heat.45822/
Feedback welcome. Maybe I just have a really good H310 and a bad H200. Two bad H200s, actually.

it needs to be flashed into IT mode because FreeNas doesn't play nicely with logical disks

Well... let's say instead because hardware RAID puts another level of indirection between the drives and ZFS. Think of ZFS as a really big hardware RAID controller made out of the host computer. Adding the puny CPU and RAM on a RAID card not only does not help, it gets in the way.

 

[pwnerman]

I would go with the H310 because of this: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/dell-h200-versus-h310-heat.45822/
Feedback welcome. Maybe I just have a really good H310 and a bad H200. Two bad H200s, actually.


Well... let's say instead because hardware RAID puts another level of indirection between the drives and ZFS. Think of ZFS as a really big hardware RAID controller made out of the host computer. Adding the puny CPU and RAM on a RAID card not only does not help, it gets in the way.

I did a custom order and I was able to get a verified working battery and all H200 for 45 bucks in my order. So I'm going to try that first but just in case later down the road can the R710 work with the H310? I know it isn't on the spec sheet so I just wanted to ask. It also seems most of the people having heat issues wern't using it in an actual server it was designed for which I will be. Some people even mention that. Is the heat what you were referring to?

 

[Spearfoot]

It also seems most of the people having heat issues weren't using it in an actual server it was designed for which I will be. Some people even mention that. Is the heat what you were referring to?

I won't presume to speak for @wblock, but the gist of the referenced thread is that the Dell H200 cards run much hotter than their H310s. I can't vouch for this as I only have the H200 model; these do indeed run hot, as do the nearly-identical IBM M1015 cards.

However, if your system has good airflow you won't have any problems using an H200; I use them in two of my servers.

 

[wblock]

I did a custom order and I was able to get a verified working battery and all H200 for 45 bucks in my order. So I'm going to try that first but just in case later down the road can the R710 work with the H310?

Batteries should not be needed on the H200 or H310, they are not caching controllers. (And even if they were, that is not something that will work well with ZFS.)

Anyway, yes, it is the heat that concerned me. Even with good airflow, less heat created is better.

Both work in a standard PCIe slot. The main difference is the location of the SAS connectors. On an H200, they are near the bracket, easy to get to in a standard case. The H310 has them inline at the far end of the board, which might be better in a true server case. Another thing to note is that Dell has some of these that are a nonstandard card with a different form factor, made for matching slots on some Dell servers.