Contemplating A New Build

[kirkdickinson]

Sorry, I haven't been active much on this forum. I guess that is all good. 2 years ago I built a FreeNAS box to use as a backup file server at work. It has been humming along for 2 years with no problems. I have had to restore a snapshot twice. One time, someone (probably me) deleted a large directory of documents and I got that back easily from the snapshot.

1-1/2 years ago I built another FreeNAS to house about 500 movies in MKV format as a PLEX server. That one is working well too. It is at home.

When things just hum along good and I can get my other work done without messing with a server, or worrying about it, my life is much more serene.

So, I am thinking about building another one at work so that I can have another level of backup.

Just picking through NewEgg. I built my last one with an 1150 mobo, are the 1151's the preferred ones now?

Here is a link to my last Server build: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/build-advice.38344/#post-231704

Here is my Newegg wish list:

• SUPERMICRO MBD-X11SSM-F-O Micro ATX Server Motherboard LGA 1151 Intel C236
  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813183013
  Item #: 13-183-013
  1 $184.99
• Intel Xeon E3-1230 v6 Kaby Lake 3.5 GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1151 72W BX80677E31230V6 Server Processor
  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117788
  Item #: 19-117-788
  1 $269.99
• Kingston Module 8 GB (1 * 8 GB) DDR3 SDRAM 1333 MHz DDR3-1333/PC3-10600 ECC Unbuffered 240-pin DIMM
  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA73M4UV6979
  Item #: 9SIA73M4UV6979
  4 $303.08
• SeaSonic S12G S12G-550 550W ATX12V / EPS12V 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Active PFC Power Supply
  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151136
  Item #: 17-151-136
  1 $64.90
• Goldendisk 32GB SATA DOM SSD Solid State Disk Embedded Storage Cards Boot system memory NAND MLC FLASH Available for 4GB 8GB 16GB 64GB
  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA9Y13N32289
  Item #: 9SIA9Y13N32289
  1 $52.99
• WD Red 4TB NAS Hard Disk Drive - 5400 RPM Class SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD40EFRX
  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236599
  Item #: 22-236-599
  8 $1,096.40
• iStarUSA D-380HN Black Aluminum 3U Rackmount Compact 8x 3.5" Bay Trayless Hotswap microATX Chassis
  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811165612
  Item #: 11-165-612
  1 $389.99

I liked the case even though it is pricey, I am thinking about using the same one again. I used a DOM in my last server build and just a USB drive in for my second. Wonder if a small SSD drive is better at this point? Also, it seems to me that the 4TB drives are the most cost effective for this size of server. Thoughts?

Thanks for reading. :)

 

[m0nkey_]

ntel Xeon E3-1230 v6 Kaby Lake

If it's only going to be a backup, consider the Intel Pentium G4400. Much lower cost processor which supports ECC.

 

[Chris Moore]

I liked the case even though it is pricey, I am thinking about using the same one again. I used a DOM in my last server build and just a USB drive in for my second. Wonder if a small SSD drive is better at this point? Also, it seems to me that the 4TB drives are the most cost effective for this size of server. Thoughts?

If I were in your place, I would buy something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERMICRO-...DRI-F-BPN-SAS2-846EL1-24x-TRAYS-/382231880992
and just make the few modifications I need to get it ready to go. It would give you a lot more room to expand over time.
This system might not be suitable for the enterprise datacenter any more, but it still has more than enough going for it to be usable in a home NAS for a decade.

 

[John Doe]

RAM WILL NOT FIT!

board is ddr4; wishlist is ddr3

 

[kirkdickinson]

If it's only going to be a backup, consider the Intel Pentium G4400. Much lower cost processor which supports ECC.

Well, I would probably make the new server the "Main" server and the current one would be the backup. I will look at that though. I don't know anything about the G4400. I thought you had to get a Xeon to get the ECC?

 

[kirkdickinson]

If I were in your place, I would buy something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERMICRO-...DRI-F-BPN-SAS2-846EL1-24x-TRAYS-/382231880992
and just make the few modifications I need to get it ready to go. It would give you a lot more room to expand over time.
This system might not be suitable for the enterprise datacenter any more, but it still has more than enough going for it to be usable in a home NAS for a decade.

Yeah, I tried this road with the last build. Someone recommended me a Supermicro rackmount. Seemed like a good idea. The problem was that I got something that wouldn't work. The power supplies were triple redundant not what I needed and short of extreme modification, I couldn't fit a ATX power supply in there. Lost money and learned a lesson. "Don't mess with used hardware unless you know what you are doing."

That case is still sitting in the back storage room.

 

[danb35]

The problem was that I got something that wouldn't work. The power supplies were triple redundant

So what about that wouldn't work? It's true, most of the Supermicro rack chassis won't fit a standard ATX power supply, but they typically come with high-quality, high-efficiency PSUs of their own, often in a redundant configuration.

I thought you had to get a Xeon to get the ECC?

You thought incorrectly; many Pentia and i3s support ECC. For example, the ark page for the G4400 confirms that it supports ECC.

 

[Chris Moore]

The power supplies were triple redundant not what I needed and short of extreme modification, I couldn't fit a ATX power supply in there.

Redundant power supplies is an advantage. Why would you want an ATX power supply. I run triple redundant power supplies in two of my servers and two way redundant in the third. It is a good thing.

 

[kirkdickinson]

So what about that wouldn't work? It's true, most of the Supermicro rack chassis won't fit a standard ATX power supply, but they typically come with high-quality, high-efficiency PSUs of their own, often in a redundant configuration.

Honestly, I don't remember for sure, but thought I needed an ATX power supply for my mobo. I still have this other server case here. I found the old ebay listing. It is a:
3U Rack mount Chassis Supermicro Server CSE-PT933-PD382 15 Bay Storage

 

[joeschmuck]

So this new build is expected to replace the server at work is what you said and the old work server is slated to become the backup server. This means that we need to know the workload you need for the work server. Maybe the G4400 is still a good choice, maybe you need the Xeon you selected. The use case of course matters.

Also note that the motherboard may not support the Kabylake CPU out of the box, it may need a BIOS upgrade first. This puts you in a predicament where you need an older CPU in order to flash the BIOS to support the newer CPU. If you read the NewEgg specs you will note it states a V5 CPU, it doesn't mention V6. But there is a BIOS upgrade to support V6. So you may just want to go with a V5 CPU, but it's your call.

While I like the idea of the DOM, I don't know if anyone else have tested that specific unit. Could you instead find a cheap SSD instead? I'm just thinking about possible build pains. The SSD can be mounted inside the case in the 3.5" drive bay.

 

[Chris Moore]

Honestly, I don't remember for sure, but thought I needed an ATX power supply for my mobo.

The redundant power supply has a standard ATX style output.

 

[Chris Moore]

3U Rack mount Chassis Supermicro Server CSE-PT933-PD382 15 Bay Storage

The particular model you referenced uses a 14 position SCSI backplane, not a SAS backplane, so I can see why it wouldn't have worked for you.

 

[kirkdickinson]

So this new build is expected to replace the server at work is what you said and the old work server is slated to become the backup server. This means that we need to know the workload you need for the work server. Maybe the G4400 is still a good choice, maybe you need the Xeon you selected. The use case of course matters.

Also note that the motherboard may not support the Kabylake CPU out of the box, it may need a BIOS upgrade first. This puts you in a predicament where you need an older CPU in order to flash the BIOS to support the newer CPU. If you read the NewEgg specs you will note it states a V5 CPU, it doesn't mention V6. But there is a BIOS upgrade to support V6. So you may just want to go with a V5 CPU, but it's your call.

While I like the idea of the DOM, I don't know if anyone else have tested that specific unit. Could you instead find a cheap SSD instead? I'm just thinking about possible build pains. The SSD can be mounted inside the case in the 3.5" drive bay.

Honestly, the (2 year) old server is perfectly fine. I have never had a single problem with it. I have never come close to overloading it. I have seven workstations access a file based database on the server and use it for a file server and to store all my video projects, documents, about 10,000 new photos each year, and a copy of all my Plex movies. When I work on a video project, I copy it from the server to my workstation. I probably could just go the cheapest route and keep the other server as primary. It has a Haswell 3.4 Xeon and a SUPERMICRO MBD-X10SL7-F-O Mobo. It only has 6 drives in zfs2 and I only have it about 60% full. That sever is probably greatly overbuilt for what it is being used for. My other one only runs Plex, so trans-coding happens all the time, that one has a E3-1220V3 Haswell 3.1 Xeon.

I guess when I build one of these, I attempt to overbuild it for my needs. Over the years, I have had many inadequate systems so I never ever regretted one that was overbuilt and just worked. With the current office one, I built with the hot swap case and have never had to swap a drive.

My old NT server had an ARECA RAID board (RAID 7) in there and after 6 years, I lost a WD Red. I did use the hot swap in that one.

 

[joeschmuck]

With the current office one, I built with the hot swap case and have never had to swap a drive.

Count your blessings.

And there is nothing wrong with overbuilding the project, it is much better than underbuilding it.

 

[Inxsible]

And there is nothing wrong with overbuilding the project, it is much better than underbuilding it.

But the sweet spot lies at building it just right !!! :)

 

[Chris Moore]

But the sweet spot lies at building it just right !!! :)

If you can estimate today what your needs will be five years from now.
Usually, overbuilding is the way you make a system that you can use until you are able to replace it with the next system.

 

[ChriZ]

As stated above, you need ddr4 ram, not ddr3. And prefer 16GB sticks in case you need to upgrade to 64GB later.
You also list 8 drives and a satadom.
That's 9 sata and the motherboard has 8.

 

[Inxsible]

If you can estimate today what your needs will be five years from now.
Usually, overbuilding is the way you make a system that you can use until you are able to replace it with the next system.

Piecemeal upgrades.

The situation with technology is always very fluid. Your current setup might not be able to handle a new format that is going to be developed 2 years from now. No way to account for those kinds of development unless you upgrade as your need arises.

If you build just about what you need today --- and then you upgrade because you must.

If you way overbuild than what you need today -- and then you upgrade, you never fully utilized your first build.



As I have said before in some posts, I like to utilize the most of the machines that I employ in my home.

P.S. -- I know you and I disagree on this :)

 

[Chris Moore]

P.S. -- I know you and I disagree on this :)

It is just a different perspective. I over built the systems I have at home and I know it, but I have already been using the current build for almost two years and I expect to be able to use them for another two or three years easily. The only changes I have made since putting them in service is to replace all the old drives that I reused from a previous build with new drives and to replace six (one vdev) of the 2TB drives with 4TB drives. I actually regret upgrading the 2TB drives to 4TB drives and I wish it were as easy to take them back out as it was to put them in.
I made a pretty substantial investment upfront so that I wouldn't need to make any changes for years, two rack mount chassis with all the trimmings and 24 hard drives. It is the way I have to do things at work and the mindset I have internalized after doing this for over 20 years. When the company you work for buys a $50,000.00 server, they don't expect you to start asking for upgrades a year later. Where I work, the expectation is that the system should be able to do the job for 5 to 7 years and if it can't, you didn't do you job right when you were in the planning stage.

 

[Inxsible]

the mindset I have internalized after doing this for over 20 years.

Maybe that's what it is. Building systems is not my primary job. So my mindset is more like to extract every drop of performance from the system I build instead of always trying to overbuild. I only build systems that I want to use. So the cost also bears an important place. If I was building for a workplace, surely the cost won't be that huge a factor.