Consolidating to FreeNAS?

[Enemy]

Looking at consolidating a few older Netgear ReadyNAS devices and a very basic (and aging) core2 server into a single FreeNAS machine.

Primary uses would be a Plex server, basic file storage and time machine backup drive.

I have a friend that’s selling the following for a very reasonable price.

ASUS P10S-M WS Motherboard
Intel Xeon E3-1220 V6

This gives me the option of hooking up my 8 WD Red drives and using the onboard m.2 slot for a boot drive? I’ve had a quick read and can see a lot of people are SuperMicro or die, and if that’s the only way to go then I’ll have to explore it but I’m getting a great price for the above hardware and it seems like it would be a decent upgrade from my current setup.

If anyone could give me their thoughts I would really appreciate it.

 

[Chris Moore]

It is a workstation board, not a server board. Your deal would need to be sub $150 for it to be worth thinking about

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

 

[Enemy]

Thanks Chris, It's slightly more than that but not by very much.

Sorry for the newbie question but what's the major disadvantage of it being a workstation board? It says on the specs sheet (https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/P10S-M-WS/) that it supports ECC RAM, is 'Platinum Grade Power efficient' and is optimized for a rack environment.

If anyone else has any thoughts or advice on the build I'd really appreciate hearing.

 

[BigDave]

ASUS P10S-M WS Motherboard
Intel Xeon E3-1220 V6

This gives me the option of hooking up my 8 WD Red drives and using the onboard m.2 slot for a boot drive?

If your board AND cpu is priced just north of $150, that's a good deal. However, your assumption of
the board having M.2 might possibly be incorrect. The fact that the board has only 6 SATA ports means
you will need an HBA expansion card if you intend to run eight HDD.

 

[Enemy]

If your board AND cpu is priced just north of $150, that's a good deal. However, your assumption of
the board having M.2 might possibly be incorrect. The fact that the board has only 6 SATA ports means
you will need an HBA expansion card if you intend to run eight HDD.

Hi Dave, thank you for your reply - It’s just what I’m getting from the spec’s sheet. Am I right in thinking there’s 8 or are 2 inactive / placeholder?

 

[BigDave]

My BAD!
I looked up P10S-M but left off the WS from my search a completely different board.
You are of course right with your findings of the specs for you friend's board.
Having seen the correct specs, I'm now agreeing with @Chris Moore
(not the best choice of Mobo for a server). Sorry

 

[Ericloewe]

To use all eight SATA ports with an M.2 SSD, you'll need a PCIe SSD, not a SATA SSD.

 

[Enemy]

Okay thank you for your feedback guys, I really do appreciate it. I will search for a cheaper server mobo instead.

If anyone has the time to explain why the WS version wouldn't be the best choice I'd love to know just out of my own interest.

 

[Ericloewe]

It's just that it has things like audio that do you no good but may cause trouble, if you're unlucky.

 

[Chris Moore]

Okay thank you for your feedback guys, I really do appreciate it. I will search for a cheaper server mobo instead.

If anyone has the time to explain why the WS version wouldn't be the best choice I'd love to know just out of my own interest.

It's not really about being cheap. I spent $198 for the last server board I got another $120 for the CPU and more for the memory. The problem with this board is more about what you are giving away and the value is less because of it.

One thing that you don't need in a FreeNAS server is audio and this board boasts all kinds of audio. It is a waste of connectivity to the CPU.
Then there's the x16 PCIe slot. You might want to have two x8 slots, but there's almost never a call for a x16 slot in a FreeNAS server.
Then the video. This board probably needs a CPU with integrated GPU which will take part of the system memory to use for video and it burns more power. The system boards we would suggest will have low power, dedicated video chips integrated into the board with dedicated video memory. No Gaming GPU needed because FreeNAS only makes text on the console.
That's just what I can come up with while on the drive home from work. There are probably other reasons.
If you want a suggestion, I can suggest some great ideas, just let me know what you are wanting to be able to do and what you think you want to spend.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

 

[Chris Moore]

I just suggested something like this to someone else a couple weeks ago, but I couldn't find the post to point you at. Here is what I would suggest for a tower build that you want quiet and inexpensive while still capable.

CASE: Fractal-Design-Define-R5-FD-CA-DEF-R5-BK-Black-Silent-ATX-Midtower-Computer-Case - US $99.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/263674323506

POWER: Corsair-Certified-CS-M-Series-CS650M-650W-80-Plus-Gold-Active-PFC-Modular-Power - US $64.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/382130407495

System Board: Super Micro X9SCM-F Motherboard w/ Heatsink/Fan & I/O Shield - US $75.00
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273400083962

OR different heatsync

System Board: SuperMicro X9SCM-F Intel Xeon E3 Intel C204 Chipset Micro ATX Server Motherboard - US $79.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192561781616

CPU: Intel SR00H Xeon E3-1230 3.20GHZ Socket 1155 - - US $55.09
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273313040616

OR faster / newer

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1230V2 3.30GHz Quad-Core CPU Processor SR0P4 LGA1155 - C737 - US $94.95
https://www.ebay.com/itm/263869242230

Memory: 8GB Memory RAM for SuperMicro X9 Series - - US $82.00 * 2 = $164
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163130855012

Drive Controller: LSI-SAS-9211-8i-8-port-6Gb-s-PCI-E-Internal-HBA-Both-Brackets-IT-MODE - US $59.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/152937435505

Drive Cables: Mini SAS to 4-SATA SFF-8087 Multi-Lane Forward Breakout Internal Cable - - US $12.99
https://www.ebay.com/itm/371681252206

Thermal Compound: Noctua NT-H1 Thermal Paste Grease Conductive Compound for CPU/GPU - US $6.95
https://www.ebay.com/itm/302624513215

I may have missed some accessorie, and I didn't include drives, but this should get you all the key components

I just picked these on eBay and they are all available right now but I know there are differences, "across the pond".

 

[Enemy]

It's not really about being cheap. I spent $198 for the last server board I got another $120 for the CPU and more for the memory. The problem with this board is more about what you are giving away and the value is less because of it.

One thing that you don't need in a FreeNAS server is audio and this board boasts all kinds of audio. It is a waste of connectivity to the CPU.
Then there's the x16 PCIe slot. You might want to have two x8 slots, but there's almost never a call for a x16 slot in a FreeNAS server.
Then the video. This board probably needs a CPU with integrated GPU which will take part of the system memory to use for video and it burns more power. The system boards we would suggest will have low power, dedicated video chips integrated into the board with dedicated video memory. No Gaming GPU needed because FreeNAS only makes text on the console.
That's just what I can come up with while on the drive home from work. There are probably other reasons.
If you want a suggestion, I can suggest some great ideas, just let me know what you are wanting to be able to do and what you think you want to spend.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

Thanks Chris, I do really appreciate you taking the time out to explain. I'm a software/applications developer by trade so the hardware side of things is new territory for me.

Sorry, I didn't explain myself very well. I meant cheaper server mobo, being one that may be within my budget as others I had looked at previously were way out - the price difference between the UK and US is crazy for some of the products.

Your last post build-out has definitely given me new options to explore so thank you again for that.

I've done some research and found a very reasonably priced Supermicro X11SSL-F with Xeon E3-1225 V5 (Quad-core, 3.3GHz) - do you think that would be suitable for a basic setup?

 

[Chris Moore]

PS. Something I forgot to mention earlier is the IPMI feature built in on many server boards (including the Supermicro you selected) that allows the system to be remotely managed from a remote network attached console app. It can allow you to fully configure the server with the only wires connected to it being the network cable and a power cable. It is a really nice thing to have and desktop computers don't have it.

 

[Chris Moore]

've done some research and found a very reasonably priced Supermicro X11SSL-F with Xeon E3-1225 V5 (Quad-core, 3.3GHz) - do you think that would be suitable for a basic setup?

It is more modern than the one I pointed out and consequently more expensive, but it should be fine.
Something you might want to look at first, this comparison I did for someone else a few days ago:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/buy-v-build.68962/#post-473618
Often times, there is no reason to spend more for a newer CPU. It doesn't gain you much

 

[pro lamer]

Often times, there is no reason to spend more for a newer CPU. It doesn't gain you much

E3 v1-4 are limited to 32GB RAM which I used to think would be too little if one wants many snapshots but two days ago I saw a setup with 950 snapshots

RAM: 8 Gig (2x 4G

so I guess I might have been wrong...

on the other hand I don't know how many snapshots are made by a time machine...

Sent from my mobile phone

 

[Chris Moore]

E3 v1-4 are limited to 32GB RAM which I used to think would be too little if one wants many snapshots but two days ago I saw a setup with 950 snapshots

In regard to ZFS, number of snapshots and amount of memory are not connected as far as I can see from the systems I have running.

on the other hand I don't know how many snapshots are made by a time machine...

I don't think that Time Machine makes snapshots in the way that ZFS does although I am not a Mac user and have no familiarity with how it does work.

Memory in the FreeNAS system is about being able to run executable things (jails, VMs, the OS) and having extra memory available to use for cache (ARC) and 32 GB is enough to do quite a bit of all that.

 

[pro lamer]

number of snapshots and amount of memory are not connected as far as I can see from the systems I have running.

I thought dealing with many snapshots needed their metadata to be kept in RAM (ARC) and thus lots of RAM was needed...

How many snapshots/much RAM do you have? (I guess snapshots per GB of ARC ratio may be meaningful but will you be kind to write how much RAM in ARC and how many snapshots you have? Cos we can calculate as a homework of course and moreover: raw data seems more readable to me)

Show : Off topic - my estimated snapshots count

My prognosis for my snapshot count: 2600 per pool.
My prognosis for pools:
- shared data pool
- pre-backup pool
- eSATA attachable backup pool for off-site

3 pools ... almost 8000 snapshots.

Not in the beginning. I am planning a system with upgrade path and 32GB RAM initially

Sent from my mobile phone

 

[Ericloewe]

I thought dealing with many snapshots needed their metadata to be kept in RAM (ARC) and thus lots of RAM was needed...

Nope. The only performance impact is when you go to list them. Snapshots are effectively free, aside from the obvious storage implications.

 

[Chris Moore]

I thought dealing with many snapshots needed their metadata to be kept in RAM (ARC) and thus lots of RAM was needed...

If I am wrong, please tell me, but I don't think a ZFS snapshot has an impact on memory. LVM2 does, but ZFS doesn't do things that way. ZFS snapshots are pointers on disk.

How many snapshots/much RAM do you have?

I have a configuration that makes a snapshot for each month and retains the most recent 12, then makes a snapshot each day and retains the most recent 31, then makes a snapshot every hour and retains the most recent 24, then makes a snapshot every 15 minutes and retains the most recent 4. That only makes 86 snapshots, and I don't see a reason to have more, for me, primarily because I have two backups. One fully redundant server and a backup pool in one of the servers, so I am more likely to go to one of the backups to get a file than to turn to a snapshot. The snapshots are there to protect me from accidental deletion or corruption from some kind of encrypting virus.

 

[Ericloewe]

but I don't think a ZFS snapshot has an impact on memory.

It doesn't, it's just a bit more (meta)data on disk. Conceptually, it's not different from just having more data that you rarely access.