BUILD Casual home use NAS for media and backup

[anandoc]

Hello folks,

This is my first time posting on this forum and building a NAS. I have been looking around for a decent off-the-shelf NAS solution and any decent NAS (not the garbage Dlink or Linksys ones) cost quite a bit. Then it occurred to me that maybe I should try building my own! It would be a less expensive affair and I would get the satisfaction of going through the build process.

I am posting a preliminary list of parts that I have selected for your review. My end goal is to have something in the 2-4 TB range with the capability to add more storage in the future, primarily to serve videos and save desktop backup files. Any and all comments would be highly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/1wrPx

CPU: Intel Celeron G1610 2.6GHz Dual-Core Processor ($51.30 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: Asus P8H77-I Mini ITX LGA1155 Motherboard ($112.52 @ DirectCanada)
Memory: Kingston Blu Red Series 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($73.43 @ Canada Computers)
Storage: Western Digital Red 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($120.97 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Western Digital Red 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($120.97 @ Newegg Canada)
Case: Lian-Li PC-Q25B Mini ITX Tower Case ($135.58 @ Canada Computers)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 430W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($56.48 @ Newegg Canada)

Total: $671.25

(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-08-26 12:18 EDT-0400)

 

[hotalot]

I would change the board, processor and ram. Why? ECC Ram. If you are going to build a Freenas server you want to use ZFS and it takes ECC ram to perform all its magic to protect your data.
Better choices (YMHO) would be:
Motherboard: Asus M5a 78 lx
Processor: Athon II X2 270 3.4 Ghz
Memory: Kingston ECC - don't need to be 1600

 

[jkh]

Shameless plug: You could do all of this, or you could just buy a bare-bones one from iXSystems: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EQNVTSY/?tag=ozlp-20

It will be more powerful than the one you're putting together (see processor specs) and if you want 16GB of memory (recommended, for ZFS) as well as hardware encryption support you can spend a little extra and get the Mini Plus: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EQJ4BHY/?tag=ozlp-20

 

[anandoc]

@hotalot thanks for your reply. Is ECC a hard requirement for ZFS? I understand that using ECC RAM rules out data corruption in the RAM but my NAS would only be serving up video files etc so I am not sure whether there is any value in going for ECC compatible motherboard and RAM. The choice seems to be slim in terms of motherboards if I go the ECC route.

@Jordan, thanks but the barebones systems are more expensive than what I would be paying for my custom built system (drives included).

 

[PinkyThePig]

@hotalot thanks for your reply. Is ECC a hard requirement for ZFS? I understand that using ECC RAM rules out data corruption in the RAM but my NAS would only be serving up video files etc so I am not sure whether there is any value in going for ECC compatible motherboard and RAM. The choice seems to be slim in terms of motherboards if I go the ECC route.

@Jordan, thanks but the barebones systems are more expensive than what I would be paying for my custom built system (drives included).

It is STRONGLY recommended. The reason is as follows:

Say you have a bad memory stick that some certain addresses always flips a number to 1. ZFS does a scrub which loads some hard drive bit onto ram to verify it is correct. It gets flipped by the ram and ZFS thinks that the data is bad. So it reloads it from the redundant portion of the disk but the space it loads it to also has an error. It writes that to harddrive and suddenly you have bad data written to disk that is considered 'pure' This cycle repeats itself over and over and over and suddenly your whole drive is FUBARed due to ZFS trying to repair it. While a standard raid config would still have the issue of rad ram, it wouldn't do these validity checks and screw the data if you were just reading it.

So really its a risk in that you could get non lousy ram and never have a single issue but if you have lousy RAM you can very quickly end up with an unmountable file system and lose absolutely all of your data. If you truely care about the data on your NAS, get ECC. If it is largely throwaway and is properly backed up then you dont NEED ECC but it is still strongly recommended so that you don't lose your data as with bad ram ZFS ACTIVELY destroys data.

I may have some of this wrong (someone please correct me if so, this is how I understood the non ECC ram to be a problem).

 

[jkh]

@Jordan, thanks but the barebones systems are more expensive than what I would be paying for my custom built system (drives included).

Hey, no problem, I get that a lot of folks are happy driving a Kia. ;-)

 

[cyberjock]

Also keep in mind with the ECC issue is that your files can be corrupted, which may end up in your backups. So now not only is your pool trashed but your backup files are also trashed. But yeah, pinkythepig pretty much hit it right on.

 

[anandoc]

Thanks for the suggestion guys. I think I should follow your advice regarding ECC ram. Any suggestions for an Intel based mini-ITX motherboard (preferably ASUS) which supports ECC ram?

 

[cyberjock]

Nope. I don't believe in mini-itx for server use. Too many limitations for upgradability.

 

[survive]

Hey, no problem, I get that a lot of folks are happy driving a Kia. ;-)

Hi Jordan,

I think that Kia comment might be a bit inaccurate. Taking a look at the review of the Mini at SmallNetBuilder here:

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas-reviews/32162-ixsystems-freenas-mini-plus-reviewed

it appears that the Mini uses an Intel DH67CF board, which appears to be a generation behind the board the OP had selected (H67 vs. H77 chipset). It has an Intel NIC & a processor that might be considered overkill, but it doesn't have ECC memory support....if I were going to stick with car analogies I think a "Civic with a B18C motor" might be more appropriate.

Anandoc,

Your question asking for a suggested mini-ATX Intel board that does ECC comes up a lot around here, and honestly there isn't a single board out there that we can point to that would meet the requirements that the forum regulars want to see (ECC RAM support, "fast enough" processor & Intel NIC). You can get everything you really need if you can do an m-ATX board with the Supermirco X9S\X10S boards, but that means you have to abandon the "shoebox-sized" form factor.

If you are looking for a small 4-bay NAS that has ECC you might want to give the new HP Generation 8 Miroserver a look. Before you by be sure to do some research and verify that FreeNAS will actually run on one, from what I can tell it works fine. The Gen 8 Microservers don't have the gobs of processing power that the Mini Plus has, but I would be shocked if the Mini Plus ever came close to using all the chip it has available to it.

-Will

 

[fracai]

Here's a mini-ITX board that supports ECC with four SATA ports.
http://ark.intel.com/products/67346/

It's too bad it doesn't have HDMI or USB 3 or another two SATA, but this is probably the board I'd get for a new personal build today. My current system uses the P8H77-I from the original post.

 

[cyberjock]

See, and here's where you screw yourself with a mini-itx. You buy that intel board, slap in an M1015 and all is great. Except if your onboard NIC sucks, dies, etc you have no option to drop in another one to the PCI express slot. You only have 1 and the M1015 was dedicated to it the second you built it.

Also 16GB of RAM, eh, it might be enough for the here and now, but you likely will want more in the future.

Everyone wants small, etc. But nobody ever stops to realize that once its built you can shove it in the corner of a room and forget about it. So size isn't as big of a problem as many other people make it out to be. And if you go with a system that has IPMI you might be like me and install FreeNAS without a CD-ROM and never ever attach a monitor, keyboard, or mouse to the computer.

 

[fracai]

If you're going to pick on-board components to die, why not the CPU socket? Or PCIe, USB, or IPMI controller? Or one of many capacitors on the board?

I get what you're saying; the mini-ITX is limiting. But, if there were no benefits it wouldn't exist. Small can be nice. Especially when you're building something that is going to sit in a glass media cabinet, or even out next to a television. There are reasons to go small and it's nice to have the option. Note that the iXsystems FreeNAS Mini, even promoted in this thread, is a compact design with zero upgrade options.

There are tradeoffs. Take another look at the title of this thread, and what the OP is looking for, and reconsider what features they're elevating above others.

 

[cyberjock]

But you got caught with my reasons in my previous post. There's no pressing push to have it sit next to your TV. Whether cat-5, power, etc. you don't HAVE to have it sit next to your TV. You have chosen to put it next to your TV. Far too many people don't consider that there are lots of alternatives to put your server and all it takes is a little bit of work or time to move your server elsewhere. I've moved my server 3x in the last 18 months(not exactly what I had planned.. moving servers is bad imo) but with each move the total "cost" was an hour or two of my time and making a cat5 cable.

Also keep in mind that if the CPU socket fails, etc. that typically is a "my motherboard is bad" and a new motherboard is pretty much required.

Mini-ITX does have its uses. I built one for a friend that sits in his kitchen. It's small, uses less than 40 watts, and works great as a desktop. I'd never stop and say that the MiniITX makes a great server. A small server, sure. But FreeNAS isn't really designed for small. ZFS is for big. Really really big. And trying to remold FreeNAS and ZFS to fit your intended function is an exercise in futility. How many people here have had single disk servers and when bitrot got its way they were upset that they were seeing unrecoverable errors. Many of the times the fix is recreating the pool from scratch. :(

 

[anandoc]

Thanks for the healthy discussion guys. This has been really helpful! Cyberjock, I am a casual home user and would have probably picked up a Dlink or Netgear NAS (which I am pretty sure does not do ECC) and gone my merry way. Execpt, I find them too limited for future expansion, with crappy UI and pricey as soon as we hit the 4-bay ones. I also care about appearances since I live in a rental apartment and cant hide my server away in a basement somewhere. It would be sitting with the TV or alongwith my router+modem in my bedroom. Hence I would like to go with a mini-ITX form-factor.

Fracai, have you had any issues with the realtek NIC on the Asus P8H77-I with FreeNAS? Seems like everybody here recommends a Intel NIC. Can you share your build with us so I can take a look at your setup?

 

[fracai]

But you got caught with my reasons in my previous post. There's no pressing push to have it sit next to your TV. Whether cat-5, power, etc. you don't HAVE to have it sit next to your TV. You have chosen to put it next to your TV. Far too many people don't consider that there are lots of alternatives to put your server and all it takes is a little bit of work or time to move your server elsewhere. I've moved my server 3x in the last 18 months(not exactly what I had planned.. moving servers is bad imo) but with each move the total "cost" was an hour or two of my time and making a cat5 cable.

No "pressing push" for you. There are plenty of reasons someone might want to put the machine next to the TV. It could be an HTPC server where they need line of sight for a remote. There may not be the space for running cat5 or the desire to have cables running across the floor. Wireless isn't always a solution either. The point is that having a nice looking, small server can be a desireable feature. In the end, choosing to put the server somewhere is just as valid a feature requirement as any other.

Also keep in mind that if the CPU socket fails, etc. that typically is a "my motherboard is bad" and a new motherboard is pretty much required.

That's my point. The onboard NIC failing can be just as valid a reason for replacing the motherboard as any other component failing if you've made the decision to restrict your expansion capabilities. Again, I understand the tradeoffs here.

Mini-ITX does have its uses. I built one for a friend that sits in his kitchen. It's small, uses less than 40 watts, and works great as a desktop. I'd never stop and say that the MiniITX makes a great server. A small server, sure. But FreeNAS isn't really designed for small. ZFS is for big. Really really big. And trying to remold FreeNAS and ZFS to fit your intended function is an exercise in futility. How many people here have had single disk servers and when bitrot got its way they were upset that they were seeing unrecoverable errors. Many of the times the fix is recreating the pool from scratch. :(

I posted a link to a mini-ITX board with four SATA ports. Four drives is all that many posters on this board have. Trust that the onboard NIC isn't going to fail before your warranty is up and a PCIe SATA card can add support for many more drives. (The NIC and SATA ports are pretty much the only "replaceable" components anyway; are they prone to failing early before the rest of the board?) There are plenty of mini-ITX enclosures with support for six or more drives (I've seen a case make it to a comfortable seven and a wicked cramped ten). It's very possible to use FreeNAS and ZFS in a mini-ITX server with a large number of drives without any "remolding".

Again, this is for home users looking for a better solution than Synology or Drobo, where six drives is a lot. How many SysAdmins are installing the Transmission or Firefly jails? Or the user generated ones like Sabnzbd? These are advanced home users setting up HTPCs and storage dumps for pictures of their kids. They aren't going "really really big" at all. By ZFS standards, they're probably going pretty small. And they're doing it without doing any bending or molding.

 

[fracai]

Fracai, have you had any issues with the realtek NIC on the Asus P8H77-I with FreeNAS? Seems like everybody here recommends a Intel NIC. Can you share your build with us so I can take a look at your setup?

Personally, I've been overall happ with it. I actually have an Intel NIC to start using instead, but I'm waiting for 9.1.1 before bringing any downtime. The RealTek has been fast enough for me. Streaming video has never had a hiccup and I'm able to run my iPhoto library from it as well. It'd be nice if it were a bit faster, but it's fast enough that I'm willing to wait to see if the Intel NIC actually does anything different.

I also just noticed that you picked the Q25B case. It can be cramped, but I'm really happy with that as well.

As for ECC, in my opinion, I'm completely on board with the ECC is a really good idea. If I was building the system today I'd surely put in the money for those upgrades. If you're going to go with ZFS for data integrity, why not go all the way?

That said, I'm not panicing that I'm not running with ECC right now. I have backups that I test and I ultimately feel that the worry over bad RAM is a bit exagerated. Given the context though, the concern is warranted.

When I build my next system, it'll use ECC (and if there aren't any good mini ITX options, it'll probably be uATX). Until then, I feel confident that my data is more secure than it has been in the past and look forward to making it more so.