BUILD Build suggestion with ASRock C2550D4I

[Roland]

Hello,

Initially I was looking at a Synology DS415+ to buy. Because a colleague pointed me to FreeNAS i found out that for about the same price i can buy better hardware, so i came to this list:

ASRock C2550D4I Motherboard
Crucial CT2KIT102472BD160B Memory or Kingston KVR16LE11L/8 or KVR16LE11/8.
Fractal node 304 Case
Seasonic G-360 PSU
2x WD Red 3TB

Still have some doubts about the memory, not sure what to choose.

And for the harddisk, can I start with the 2 disks and later expand? Is there some Hybrid Raid just like Synology? Or do i need to recreate the Raid when i want a third disk to join?

I can add a WD 3 TB Green (WD30EZRS) that i still have from my current Synology NAS, but this this is different thant the WD RED i want to buy (and the WD30EZRS is older, slower and probably consumes more power), so i personally do not prefer this. Or can i better use this as third 3 TB disk and than later replace this disk with a 3 TB Red?

What is the way to go for this?

Regards,
Roland

 

[Roland]

I think that I go for the Crucial memory, any suggestions for the harddisks? And what about the stuff i get for the money. This is a nice and compact case, what if i go to some I3 Board, except that some motherboards are larger, so maybe the case needs to be a bigger one, do i achieve the same (or better) performance compared to the CD2550D41?

What is recommended?

Thanks,
Roland

 

[Fraoch]

And for the harddisk, can I start with the 2 disks and later expand? Is there some Hybrid Raid just like Synology? Or do i need to recreate the Raid when i want a third disk to join?

No, you will have to recreate the data from a backup. You can't just add a disk.

See https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...ning-vdev-zpool-zil-and-l2arc-for-noobs.7775/

I can add a WD 3 TB Green (WD30EZRS) that i still have from my current Synology NAS, but this this is different thant the WD RED i want to buy (and the WD30EZRS is older, slower and probably consumes more power), so i personally do not prefer this. Or can i better use this as third 3 TB disk and than later replace this disk with a 3 TB Red?

The most important thing is that the drives are the same size. In regards to speed, I believe it will still work fine but the entire pool will run slower.

I think that I go for the Crucial memory

Good choice - sorry I didn't respond sooner, but Kingston has been caught part swapping with their memory yet not changing the part number. So what may have been compatible when the motherboard manufacturer tested the memory may not be compatible now, and you'll have no way of knowing.

This is a nice and compact case, what if i go to some I3 Board, except that some motherboards are larger, so maybe the case needs to be a bigger one, do i achieve the same (or better) performance compared to the CD2550D41?

The C2550 is only second to a C2750 board in terms of performance/watt. A Core i3 or a Xeon will perform better but it will consume more power and require a cooling fan. There are mini-ITX ECC server boards that can accommodate a Core i3:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157466

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157467

For the sake of completeness, I'll include a Tyan board although you'd be on your own with this one, I'm not sure anyone here uses Tyan boards anymore:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813151295

If you move up to microATX boards, you will be able to use the highly recommended SuperMicro X10SLL-F or X10SLM-F. The Fractal Design Node 804 can accommodate these - it's the larger twin of the 304. The looks are the same although it's larger.

 

[Roland]

Thank you for your reply.

That SuperMicro board, the X10SLM-F, should also be an option. If the power consumption is not a huge difference, for me not that big a deal, and the performance is the same or better. I looked for the prices, but when I changed the case, motherboard and added a I3 4330 CPU, the set price is higher compared with the Asrock c2550d4i set.

So if I choose this, it is only for better performance, is this correct? Are there other options to get a lower set price with the same or better performance? I do not want to lose quality, but more looking to compare I3 or Xenon with the c25504i set.

Thanks,
Roland

 

[Ericloewe]

Thank you for your reply.

That SuperMicro board, the X10SLM-F, should also be an option. If the power consumption is not a huge difference, for me not that big a deal, and the performance is the same or better. I looked for the prices, but when I changed the case, motherboard and added a I3 4330 CPU, the set price is higher compared with the Asrock c2550d4i set.

So if I choose this, it is only for better performance, is this correct? Are there other options to get a lower set price with the same or better performance? I do not want to lose quality, but more looking to compare I3 or Xenon with the c25504i set.

Thanks,
Roland

An X10 board gives you more flexibility down the line, especially due to the massively increased PCI-e bandwidth. I'd recommend either the X10SLL+-F or X10SLM+-F, since they have Crucial RAM on their QVL (they're mostly the same board). For more information, read the sticky (link is in my sig).

 

[Fraoch]

That SuperMicro board, the X10SLM-F, should also be an option. If the power consumption is not a huge difference, for me not that big a deal, and the performance is the same or better.

Performance would be better with the Core i3. Power consumption would be higher but the Core i3 has low idle power consumption, so it shouldn't be that bad. The entire build in my signature idles at 40W, and 16-20W of that is the hard drives. Plus this is a 4-core CPU, an i3 is dual-core.

So if I choose this, it is only for better performance, is this correct? Are there other options to get a lower set price with the same or better performance? I do not want to lose quality, but more looking to compare I3 or Xenon with the c25504i set.

You could go down to a Core i3 41XX. It'll still perform better than a C2550. You could theoretically go down to a Pentium, but there are early indications it may have problems with future FreeNAS versions.

Also you may want to pick the X10SLL-F over the X10SLM-F. The only difference is you get less SATA III ports. Not a problem for hard drives that may not even be able to saturate a SATA I port.

 

[Roland]

Thank you both for your response. And what about the Jails? Do they benefit from the quad core atom? Or is there anything when the atom is better?

I thought I could create a nice a nas that is compact, had reasonable power, is affordable and comparable with a Synology ds415+, I don't mind to have a bigger case if needed, but maybe want to run 0ne or two vm's later.

Regards,
Roland

 

[Fraoch]

I don't know too much about jails and how they benefit from more cores/threads.

However the Core i3s, while they are dual-core, are hyperthreaded so they are 4 thread. A thread isn't really equivalent to a core in this context (it's not as efficient, I've seen an off-the-cuff quote that it's "20% slower than a real core") but it's faster and more powerful than an Atom thread, even though the C2000s are the most powerful Atoms yet made.

Some here may not like PassMark and feel it's inappropriate to use as a reference for FreeNAS performance but it's about the only extensive apples-to-apples comparison available.

C2550: 2329 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+C2550+@+2.40GHz&id=2331

Core i3-4130 (the base Core i3): 4803 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i3-4130+@+3.40GHz&id=2015

That's a pretty large difference.

There are proper server benchmarks of the C2550 here:

http://www.servethehome.com/Server-detail/intel-atom-c2550-benchmarks-4-core-avoton-tested/

In a comment at the end, the author does not recommend the C2550 for transcoding (in FreeNAS this would be using Plex).

The positive comments regarding C2000 FreeNAS performance on this forum are regarding the 8-core C2750. With its 8 cores, it has more than ample performance for FreeNAS and should even be able to transcode a few streams.

PassMark would tend to agree:

C2750: 3929 http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+C2750+@+2.40GHz&id=2185

This is much closer to a Core i3 and more than some of the Pentiums that were previously recommended for FreeNAS.

Server benchmarks for the C2750:

http://www.servethehome.com/Server-...8-core-avoton-rangeley-benchmarks-fast-power/

But when you look at the price of the C2750 boards, it may be more economical to use a Core i3 with a C222/C224/C226 LGA 1150 board. In fact the Xeon with the motherboard in my signature cost me less than the C2750 board while being more powerful. You'll lose the benefit of silent operation and extremely low power usage though.

 

[Roland]

Yeah, the C2750 is out of my current budget, just like a Xeon. I already was streching my budget with the good ECC memory and Asrock or Supermicro board. I was starting with a comparable Synology 415+ own build NAS, and don't want to strech the budget to much. And i have no problem to later buy additional memory or extra harddisks, but want to prevent to come to the conclusion that i made a wrong choice in motherboard and cannot expand.

So i think the basic needs to be some server based (or proven) motherboard that has the option to expand. And currently after advise here and reading some threads i'm more leaning towards the I3-4130 or 4150 CPU with the Supermicro MBD-X10SLM-F-O board. There are some cheaper boards like the ASUS P9D-X some MSI boards etc., but for the price difference i think the SuperMicro is the way to go.

Thanks for the advice, i will create a new "shopping" list this week .

 

[Fraoch]

You can save a little money with the X10SLL-F board. As I indicated, you have more SATA II ports and less SATA III ports, but for hard drives, that's not a problem. The boards are otherwise identical.

I only got the X10SLM-F because it was in stock and available while the X10SLL-F was backordered.

 

[Roland]

The X10SLM-F is cheaper than X10SLL-F, so not to difficult to make the choice

Okay, this took me some take, but i finally reserved some budget

I do think that it' s better to go with a Micro ATX instead of Mini ITX, so this will be the new list for now:

Seasonic G-360

Fractal node 804
Supermicro MBD-X10SLM-F-O
Intel Core i3-4150 Boxed
WD Red 3TB
Crucial CT2KIT102472BD160B (ECC)

I'm not sure about amount disks i'm starting with, i was thinking tot start with 2, but maybe 3 is minimal to start with for ZFS.

And how about additional cards? I assume with this board i have all i need, is that correct?

Any comment/advise?

Thanks,
Roland

 

[Fraoch]

Supermicro's model numbers are confusing. You may also find the X10SLM+-F, which has two Intel i210 network ports, as opposed to one i210 and one consumer-level i217 port. Obviously the "+-" model is better, but at least on my FreeNAS box, I'm only using one network port, and that's the i210, so it's fine for me. But that could explain the price difference, the X10SLM-F is theoretically more expensive than the X10SLL-F, but the X10SLL+-F might be more expensive than the X10SLM-F.

Anyway, both are fine.

In regards to disks, 2 disks gets you a mirror, the minimum level of redundancy. One disk can fail but the other will still have all the data. With three disks, you can use RAID-Z1, which uses the capacity of two disks and keeps one for parity data - i.e. one of any of the disks can fail. This may sound good, but with large disks, rebuilding the array after a disk failure has a non-trivial chance of causing another disk failure, and if a disk failure occurs at this point you'll lose all your data. There have been several incidents reported on the forum lately of this very thing happening. The optimal arrangement is 4 disks in RAID-Z2 where any two disks can fail without affecting data. It's much safer than RAID-Z1.

I'm far from a RAID-Z expert so you should do a little research before following my advice here. I don't think I've found a thread here describing these RAID levels completely though. If I did I'd point you to it.

If you're going with 4 disks you won't need an additional card, the X10SLM-F has 6 SATA ports. You can even have the boot disk as an SSD, plus use a second boot disk as a boot mirror (FreeNAS 9.3 has this capability).

 

[Ericloewe]

The + versions, the X10SLL+-F and X10SLM+-F, besides the second i210 (and more USB 3.0 ports, IIRC), have been tested with the Micron/Crucial DIMMs, so they offer a bit more peace of mind.

 

[Fraoch]

The + versions, the X10SLL+-F and X10SLM+-F, besides the second i210 (and more USB 3.0 ports, IIRC), have been tested with the Micron/Crucial DIMMs, so they offer a bit more peace of mind.

Good point. @Roland, make sure you read over @Ericloewe's Supermicro X10 threads if you go this route.:)

 

[Roland]

Thank you all for the response.

The different model numbers are indeed confusing, but hey, with all you help i am getting there :)

So the + versions has two same network cards, and the regular version has 2 different cards. That is already too bad, since i maybe later want to use LACP, not that this doesn't work, but 2 same cards are in my personal opinion better suited for this. And for the memory, i did read over the FAQ from Ericloewe (thanks for that) and the + model is advised with the Crucial memory, so again a reason for the + board. The X10SLL+-F is difficult to get, the X10SLM+-F a little less difficult, but prices are a lot higher than the regular model. The other option, if i look only for the memory, is to use the Hynix or Samsung memory, if i read it correct this is also advised for the X10SLM-F, Hynix i cannot find here, Samsung is available but a litle bit more expensive than the Crucial KIT, so i need to make a choice for this.

For the disks, again 2 additional disks are adding again more money to the NAS. But from what i understood and read i have these choices:
2 disks, use raid 1
3 disks, use RAID-Z1
4 disks, use RAID-Z2

These are the minimum disks per RAID level? So when i start with 2 disks and RAID 1, i cannot upgrade to RAID-Z1 or RAID-Z2 by simply just adding disks? When i want to upgrade i need to move date to other storage, add a disk, change RAID, format, and restore data from other storage, is that correct?

When i want to expand a RAID-Z1 setup, i can just add one additional disk while keeping all data the same when i want to expand a RAID-Z2 setup with one disk?

I am stil note sure about the extra disks and want to avoid to make budget a problem, i prefer to buy 2 disk and later add some additional, i have one WD 3TB Green in my current NAS, but i prefer not to use this disk together with new WD REDS, and another thing is that its more difficult to migrate to the new NAS.... choices...:( But hey, when i can add one extra disk to the shopping list and am able temprarly move data to other disks and than use my current WD GREEN from 3 TB, together with the 3 NEW RED's, i can safely later replace the GREEN by a another new RED and trust on the rebuild, is that correct?

Thanks again,
Roland

 

[Ericloewe]

Thank you all for the response.

The different model numbers are indeed confusing, but hey, with all you help i am getting there :)

So the + versions has two same network cards, and the regular version has 2 different cards. That is already too bad, since i maybe later want to use LACP, not that this doesn't work, but 2 same cards are in my personal opinion better suited for this. And for the memory, i did read over the FAQ from Ericloewe (thanks for that) and the + model is advised with the Crucial memory, so again a reason for the + board. The X10SLL+-F is difficult to get, the X10SLM+-F a little less difficult, but prices are a lot higher than the regular model. The other option, if i look only for the memory, is to use the Hynix or Samsung memory, if i read it correct this is also advised for the X10SLM-F, Hynix i cannot find here, Samsung is available but a litle bit more expensive than the Crucial KIT, so i need to make a choice for this.

For the disks, again 2 additional disks are adding again more money to the NAS. But from what i understood and read i have these choices:
2 disks, use raid 1
3 disks, use RAID-Z1
4 disks, use RAID-Z2

These are the minimum disks per RAID level? So when i start with 2 disks and RAID 1, i cannot upgrade to RAID-Z1 or RAID-Z2 by simply just adding disks? When i want to upgrade i need to move date to other storage, add a disk, change RAID, format, and restore data from other storage, is that correct?

When i want to expand a RAID-Z1 setup, i can just add one additional disk while keeping all data the same when i want to expand a RAID-Z2 setup with one disk?

I am stil note sure about the extra disks and want to avoid to make budget a problem, i prefer to buy 2 disk and later add some additional, i have one WD 3TB Green in my current NAS, but i prefer not to use this disk together with new WD REDS, and another thing is that its more difficult to migrate to the new NAS.... choices...:( But hey, when i can add one extra disk to the shopping list and am able temprarly move data to other disks and than use my current WD GREEN from 3 TB, together with the 3 NEW RED's, i can safely later replace the GREEN by a another new RED and trust on the rebuild, is that correct?

Thanks again,
Roland

Adding disks is not that easy. I recommend you read Cyberjock's guide (link in my sig), as he goes through what can and can't be done.

 

[Fraoch]

So the + versions has two same network cards, and the regular version has 2 different cards. That is already too bad, since i maybe later want to use LACP, not that this doesn't work, but 2 same cards are in my personal opinion better suited for this. And for the memory, i did read over the FAQ from Ericloewe (thanks for that) and the + model is advised with the Crucial memory, so again a reason for the + board. The X10SLL+-F is difficult to get, the X10SLM+-F a little less difficult, but prices are a lot higher than the regular model. The other option, if i look only for the memory, is to use the Hynix or Samsung memory, if i read it correct this is also advised for the X10SLM-F, Hynix i cannot find here, Samsung is available but a litle bit more expensive than the Crucial KIT, so i need to make a choice for this.

Same here, Hynix or Samsung is impossible to find but Crucial is readily available. Crucial CT2KIT102472BD160B runs just fine in my X10SLM-F. Since the BIOS and the PCH is the same on both the "-" and "+-" X10 boards, I would strongly suspect that memory requirements should be the same. It's just that Supermicro has not tested them. Note: Crucial has a compatibility checker. If you buy direct from them and your board is listed as compatible, you can get your money back if the memory will not work.

Regarding the "+-" model, it's up to you. Read up on LACP/LAGG on this forum, it may not get you what you want. It's more for redundancy, you may not get extra speed (definitely not twice the speed anyway). It's not like the i217 is bad, but you're right, it is better to have both controllers matched if you intend on using them both.

Eric has answered your question about disks - you have to plan this in advance as you can't just change it later without rebuilding your data from backups. The disks are the most expensive part of the build.

 

[Roland]

Thanks for all the support.

So after some more research i'm still not sure about all components.....

I do think that the X10SLM-F should be fine for my purposes, i am not sure if the 50 euro (62 dollar) more is worth the X10SLM+-F. So right now i think to go for the X10SLM-F , the Crucial memory should work, just as Fraoch sayed and the extra NIC is not that important, LACP is nice to have, but not for the speed.

I still have some doubts about the case. For the Seasonic 360, which should be fine for my hardware, it is too bad that it isn't a modular PSU and the Node 804 seems like a (too) big box, right now i'm more leaning to a Fractal Design Arc Mini. Any other serious candidates i need to check? I do like a more "open" front case, like the Arc Mini, but i don't need the 5.25 bays. So the best case for me is one with room for 4-6 x 3.5" internal disks, 2x 2.5" SSD, no 5.25" bays, good cable management, good air flow and dust filters. So at this moment the Arc Mini is the best quality case i can find that most close to what i want. The looks are not that important, although the Arc Mini looks nice and a window is not really needed but its okay.

And also not sure about the PSU. For the PSU, the G360 has no cable management, so i could go for a Seasonic G450, that has cable management but seems overkill with the power. Any other good options from Corsair (e.g. the CS450M, but it is also 450w). Any other PSU with Gold certificate and around 350w and cable management that are recommended?

The new list at this moment will be:

Seasonic G-360
Fractal Design Arc Mini
Supermicro MBD-X10SLM-F-O
Intel Core i3-4150 Boxed
4 x WD Red 3TB
Crucial CT2KIT102472BD160B (ECC)

Any help/thoughts is appreciated, the more i see, the more confused i get about all the options :)

Roland

 

[Fraoch]

The looks are not that important, although the Arc Mini looks nice and a window is not really needed but its okay.

Funny but a window actually would come in handy here - the motherboard comes with a power LED and an IPMI LED (blinking when IPMI is running). Having a window allows you to see these for diagnostic purposes.

And also not sure about the PSU. For the PSU, the G360 has no cable management, so i could go for a Seasonic G450, that has cable management but seems overkill with the power. Any other good options from Corsair (e.g. the CS450M, but it is also 450w). Any other PSU with Gold certificate and around 350w and cable management that are recommended?

Well, we are talking about SeaSonic here.:) It won't consume extra power provided it's the same efficiency at your given load. Take a look at these:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=313 (G360)

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story3&reid=323 (this is for the G550, unfortunately there's no review of the G450 but efficiencies should be similar)

Note the G550 is actually more efficient than the G360 at low load. We can safely assume that the G450 will be similar - same manufacturer, same product line, same efficiency certification.

So it would be safe to assume that the G450 wouldn't be overkill at all. In fact it will likely be a little more efficient, will run cooler (longer life) and have higher reserves for future use or moments of high power demand.

It's far better to oversize power supplies if they're efficient enough than to undersize them.

 

[Roland]

Okay, it has took some time, but i'm getting ready to buy the hardware in the next week. There is only one thing I have doubts about, the amount of drives. I read to the forum, including manuals, and the guide from Cyberjock. I was thinking to use RAIDZ1 with the 4 disks and use 2 simple 60 or 120 GB SSD's for boot. Except some simple and cheap SSD, I use recommended hardware, ECC memory, WD Red's, etc. But there are some doubts about raidz1 in this forum. In my case the server is mainly a private server with personal data/movies and video for streaming/etc and i want to use some jails for things like Sickbeard, Couchpotato, Owncloud, etc. I will arrange some (external) backup for the most important data.

In my opion this is a good setup for this purpose.

I think in my case 4 disk RAIDZ1 is better than 4 disk RAIDz2 or 2x2 mirror, because the available space left.

If i have 4x WD RED 3TB disks and 2x (the same) cheap SSD, e.g. the Kingston SSDNow V300, is this in my case the way to go? With the X10SLM-F and 2x SATA2 (used for the SSD's) and 4x SATA3 (used for the 4x WD RED 3 TB), i have no more SATA3 connections available, so not much more options.

I can also go for 3x3TB in RAIDZ1, this is more "best practice" and I do not directly need the additional 3TB wiht 4x 3TB RAIDz1 setup, but i cannot expand this easy later. With 3x 3TB HDD i have room in the case for an additinonal 3x HDD, besides the 2x SSD, the only thing is that i do need an additional controller in this case.

So what to do?

Thanks again!

Roland