At what point does it make sense to purchase a retired rack server as opposed to build?

[tawnytim]

I've recently become interested in truenas. I've been selling Synology to my clients for years and I think I'm just done with them. To get into the truenas market, I want to set up my own machine first so I can become acquainted with truenas scale. While I've built easily over 1000 computers in my life, I've never really dabbled in server hardware. If you blurted out a Xeon model, I wouldn't be able to tell you about it in the way I can tell you about core processors. I was looking over some builds from users here and I see a commonality that Microstar seems to be popular for motherboards. However, at what point does it make sense just to buy something like this R730 on ebay as opposed to building from scratch? We currently use our NAS for shared folders and drive image backups from a couple dozen machines and users.

 

[jgreco]

I've recently become interested in truenas. I've been selling Synology to my clients for years and I think I'm just done with them. To get into the truenas market, I want to set up my own machine first so I can become acquainted with truenas scale. While I've built easily over 1000 computers in my life, I've never really dabbled in server hardware. If you blurted out a Xeon model, I wouldn't be able to tell you about it in the way I can tell you about core processors. I was looking over some builds from users here and I see a commonality that Microstar seems to be popular for motherboards. However, at what point does it make sense just to buy something like this R730 on ebay as opposed to building from scratch? We currently use our NAS for shared folders and drive image backups from a couple dozen machines and users.

Welcome. I am you except I've been doing servers ever since the early days of the commercial Internet.

Microstar is ... I don't even know what that is. Did you mean Supermicro? If so, I'm the guy who drove the mass exodus to Supermicro gear here about ten years ago. They're like legos for server geeks, you can build whatever you need.

Please consider going to have a full read-thru of my decade-old article:

So you want some hardware suggestions.

Mod note: This thread is jgreco's original hardware recommendations guide, from back in the day. General advice still holds, but some specifics have changed. The current Hardware Recommendations Guide can be found in the Resources section, at the following link...

www.truenas.com

Which is still really relevant in many ways, but it's really aimed a bit more at techies who have SOME experience with computers. I think this would be helpful to you.

Dell prebuilts certainly work, but Dell's systems like that R730 are dual socket affairs and probably not appropriate for basic NAS use. That one also targets 2.5" drives, which is limiting with ZFS where you shouldn't use SMR hard drives -- most 2.5" HDD's larger than 1TB are SMR. You can make a basic NAS out of a Supermicro rackmount chassis such as this:

SuperMicro CSE-826 12x LFF2U Barebone W/ Trays 2X 800w P/S Free Shipping!!! | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for SuperMicro CSE-826 12x LFF2U Barebone W/ Trays 2X 800w P/S Free Shipping!!! at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

and then put in a middlin' old Xeon board like an X10SL7 and get a basic functional NAS platform. You can also get a larger board that is capable of more memory and more I/O, like an X10SRL, which can handle lots of memory. If you plan to do stuff like jails or VM's, then there are also dual CPU options that might make sense. So you can right-size your NAS very easily with the Supermicro stuff. And you don't even need to use a Supermicro mainboard in the Supermicro chassis, though there are advantages to doing so.

 

[jgreco]

I should point out that this particular chassis does not include rails; you definitely NEED rails for proper rack mounting. The PSU's are also only 800W. That's fine for an E3 Xeon board, but you might want 920SQ's for an E5 or dual E5. One might also look for an SAS expander based chassis for easier cabling; those will usually run $100-$150 more. With those caveats, this is a recommended "starter chassis".

 

[Whattteva]

Microstar is ... I don't even know what that is. Did you mean Supermicro? If so, I'm the guy who drove the mass exodus to Supermicro gear here about ten years ago. They're like legos for server geeks, you can build whatever you need.

I think he means Microstar International (MSI).

Dell prebuilts certainly work, but Dell's systems like that R730 are dual socket affairs and probably not appropriate for basic NAS use. That one also targets 2.5" drives, which is limiting with ZFS where you shouldn't use SMR hard drives -- most 2.5" HDD's larger than 1TB are SMR. You can make a basic NAS out of a Supermicro rackmount chassis such as this:

I was looking into these, but they have kind of 2 deal breakers (first 2) for me:

• Dual socket translates directly to higher power usage. Of course, you could just use one socket, but then you also miss out on the extra RAM slots and one might wonder why you're paying extra for stuff you don't use. And quite frankly, something like a Xeon Silver 4210T (10c/20t) processor already has more than enough processing power for a typical home user that a second CPU just makes no sense. Mine currently runs 9 VM's and it never even breaks 50% usage at its heaviest load.
• Typically comes with a H730 RAID controller, which is kind of a no-no for ZFS.
• IPMI requires an extra license if you don't get one that already comes with iDRAC Enterprise.

 

[Whattteva]

However, at what point does it make sense just to buy something like this R730 on ebay as opposed to building from scratch? We currently use our NAS for shared folders and drive image backups from a couple dozen machines and users.

Really depends on your use case and how much computing power you need. Also, where is this thing supposed to reside? If you expect it to "purr" like a Synology, you're going to be in for a big surprise. Those Dell servers are LOUD... well generally rack servers tend to be on the loud side. If you're planning to park this in the corner of your bedroom or even your living room, you may want to rethink this.

 

[tawnytim]

Welcome. I am you except I've been doing servers ever since the early days of the commercial Internet.

Microstar is ... I don't even know what that is. Did you mean Supermicro? If so, I'm the guy who drove the mass exodus to Supermicro gear here about ten years ago. They're like legos for server geeks, you can build whatever you need.

Please consider going to have a full read-thru of my decade-old article:

So you want some hardware suggestions.

Mod note: This thread is jgreco's original hardware recommendations guide, from back in the day. General advice still holds, but some specifics have changed. The current Hardware Recommendations Guide can be found in the Resources section, at the following link...

www.truenas.com

Which is still really relevant in many ways, but it's really aimed a bit more at techies who have SOME experience with computers. I think this would be helpful to you.

Dell prebuilts certainly work, but Dell's systems like that R730 are dual socket affairs and probably not appropriate for basic NAS use. That one also targets 2.5" drives, which is limiting with ZFS where you shouldn't use SMR hard drives -- most 2.5" HDD's larger than 1TB are SMR. You can make a basic NAS out of a Supermicro rackmount chassis such as this:

SuperMicro CSE-826 12x LFF2U Barebone W/ Trays 2X 800w P/S Free Shipping!!! | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for SuperMicro CSE-826 12x LFF2U Barebone W/ Trays 2X 800w P/S Free Shipping!!! at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

and then put in a middlin' old Xeon board like an X10SL7 and get a basic functional NAS platform. You can also get a larger board that is capable of more memory and more I/O, like an X10SRL, which can handle lots of memory. If you plan to do stuff like jails or VM's, then there are also dual CPU options that might make sense. So you can right-size your NAS very easily with the Supermicro stuff. And you don't even need to use a Supermicro mainboard in the Supermicro chassis, though there are advantages to doing so.

I'm going to digest this, and thanks for the response! I inadvertently menttioned Microstar, as another member has pointed out, that's Microstar International, or MSI. What I MEANT to say was Supermicro.

 

[jgreco]

I think he means Microstar International (MSI).

Whattteva! (grin)

 

[Whattteva]

Whattteva! (grin)

Touché, who would've known... The grinch can be cleverly humorous at times...

 

[jgreco]

I'm going to digest this, and thanks for the response!

No problem. There's lots to learn and lots to know, but it can be lots of fun if you've at least partially grounded in computer stuff. Be aware that some of the things you might think you "know" all about from previous computer experience are likely to be wrong; power supply sizing, using SAS instead of SATA for storage, etc., etc., feel free to read through the resources section. Some of us do servers professionally, but there are also tons of SOHO and hobbyist/enthusiast users as well.

 

[jgreco]

Touché, who would've known... The grinch can be cleverly humorous at times...

How can you have been a member here for almost ten years without having run across that in the past?

 

[Whattteva]

How can you have been a member here for almost ten years without having run across that in the past?

Haha, I'm kind of like a volcano. My activities come in bursts with a lot of periods of dormancy in between as evidenced by my relatively low post count for someone who's been around for 10 years. Heck, Mr. @Davvo over there nearly matched my post count in just under a year! I'd say most of the bursts mostly coincide with the times I build my NAS boxes (in my sig).

Well, it shows 2015 for the first one, but it's misleading. I actually had a consumer-grade i3-3220T FreeNAS 8 build in 2013 that I retired to another purpose (hence not listed in the sig).

Fun fact. I only JUST NOW noticed that your account age is not that much older than mine, haha.

 

[jgreco]

(drum roll) .... Whattteva!

Seriously, best username ever.

 

[Whattteva]

Glad to be of service.

 

[jgreco]

Fun fact. I only JUST NOW noticed that your account age is not that much older than mine, haha.

I'm a day 2 user. The iX forums were opened on May 28, 2011, but, unlike most of the other day 1 or day 2 users, I am not a carryover from the old FreeNAS 0.7 forums. The only active users older than me are @joeschmuck and @survive , I believe. I snuck in because someone dropped me a backchannel notification, knowing my interest in the topic.

 

[tawnytim]

I can't wait to try out truenas. I discovered I can build a reasonable ITX rig for less than 500 bucks which absolutely blows away Synology Diskstations in price AND performance. That's a huge benefit to my clients.

 

[joeschmuck]

The only active users older than me are @joeschmuck and @survive , I believe.

Myself, day 1 user I guess, and it's difficult to remember who was here back then. So many have left the forums. Has it really been almost 12 years? Wow! I got into this just as FreeNAS 0.7 split into NAS4Free and FreeNAS 8.0. I think I showed up maybe a week or so before this happened. For me, I didn't build my first NAS until shortly after iXsystems came to the stage, it was a new topic for me but I knew I wanted a backup device and a prebuilt NAS solution was extremely expensive. It was good timing for me.

I can't wait to try out truenas. I discovered I can build a reasonable ITX rig for less than 500 bucks which absolutely blows away Synology Diskstations in price AND performance. That's a huge benefit to my clients.

Yes, you well might be able to but I would recommend you do not cut corners as unfortunately many people do when trying to build an inexpensive NAS where money it the key factor in their mind. Data safety should be the key factor in my opinion. If you do build a nice inexpensive NAS, you should post the physical makeup (specs) and costs so others can benefit from your work. We are definitely a sharing site.

And welcome to the forums, there is a lot of information here, just search for it and I'm sure any question you have has already been asked and answered, but if you can't find an answer after really looking, post a question and someone will answer it. Please be very clear in what you ask, assumptions on our part don't really help you.

 

[tawnytim]

Myself, day 1 user I guess, and it's difficult to remember who was here back then. So many have left the forums. Has it really been almost 12 years? Wow! I got into this just as FreeNAS 0.7 split into NAS4Free and FreeNAS 8.0. I think I showed up maybe a week or so before this happened. For me, I didn't build my first NAS until shortly after iXsystems came to the stage, it was a new topic for me but I knew I wanted a backup device and a prebuilt NAS solution was extremely expensive. It was good timing for me.


Yes, you well might be able to but I would recommend you do not cut corners as unfortunately many people do when trying to build an inexpensive NAS where money it the key factor in their mind. Data safety should be the key factor in my opinion. If you do build a nice inexpensive NAS, you should post the physical makeup (specs) and costs so others can benefit from your work. We are definitely a sharing site.

And welcome to the forums, there is a lot of information here, just search for it and I'm sure any question you have has already been asked and answered, but if you can't find an answer after really looking, post a question and someone will answer it. Please be very clear in what you ask, assumptions on our part don't really help you.

Thanks! Yeah, cost-cutting is not my MO. I'm the most expensive in my geo-area but my reputation precedes me. We are a quality-first, cost-second shop, unapologetically.

 

[Whattteva]

Myself, day 1 user I guess, and it's difficult to remember who was here back then. So many have left the forums. Has it really been almost 12 years? Wow! I got into this just as FreeNAS 0.7 split into NAS4Free and FreeNAS 8.0. I think I showed up maybe a week or so before this happened. For me, I didn't build my first NAS until shortly after iXsystems came to the stage, it was a new topic for me but I knew I wanted a backup device and a prebuilt NAS solution was extremely expensive. It was good timing for me.

Oh wow. So, relatively speaking, I got in pretty early... around FreeNAS 8.3 I think? Would I qualify as an original? Hmmm...

Yeah, hard to believe I've been running this system for nearly 10 years back when I just barely started my professional career as a developer.

 

[Davvo]

Heck, Mr. @Davvo over there nearly matched my post count in just under a year!

Our post count might be similar, but the quality is vastly different. My posts are mainly just links to resources, I played as the police officer managing traffic.

Which means... @tawnytim please read the following resource.

Hardware Recommendations Guide

This is the latest edition of the FreeNAS Community hardware recommendations guide. The current major version is R2, dated January 2021, with the last minor update on 2021-01-24. The format has moved away from the forum post form factor, to...

www.truenas.com

You can find more knowledge looking in my signature or directly in the dedicated section of the forum.

 

[joeschmuck]

I got in pretty early... around FreeNAS 8.3 I think? Would I qualify as an original? Hmmm...

LOL, yea. We had version 8.0, 8.0.1, 8.0.2, 8.0.3, 8.1, and it incremented like that. I would modify and compile my own unique versions and feed back any problems generally with code for the fixes. I stopped working the code just as Coral (version 10) crapped all over us. iXsystems rushed it and it flopped, hard. Coral was written in another programming language that I was not familiar with and I didn't care to learn it. I was only a beta tester after that point. My Beta testing is limited now, mainly because there are so many eager kids out there ready to do it. I'm not that eager anymore. I guess if I had a towering system that used 1.21 Gigawatts then I might do some beta testing again.

Well this was a bit off topic but fun.

Which means... @tawnytim please read the following resource.

I'm the most expensive in my geo-area but my reputation precedes me. We are a quality-first, cost-second shop, unapologetically.

Not at $500 a system. That is not expensive. I'd still love to see the system specs for that machine if it's something you already have build. I'm curious how far it might waver from a recommended ZFS system.