BUILD Advice needed…miniITX vs mATX…and other hardware.

[thepixelgeek]

After researching and reading many posts (perhaps not enough yet), I’m looking at the below build for my needs. It’s my first NAS build so your advice is greatly appreciated.

I’m currently using my iMac as my Plex server with several external WD drives feeding Plex app on 3 televisions.

There’s no rush to purchase. I’m willing to wait if something better is right around the corner.

Use Cases:

1. Act as a storage of personal music, movies, pictures, and backups/images of home computers.
2. Ability to play back up to 3 streams of movies/music to devices around the house (Amazon FireTV on each TV in the house). I also have Plex installed on each Amazon FireTV.
3. Ability to access collection when away from home.
4. Futureproof - transcoding of 4k movies…or the very least, have a fighting chance
5. Video surveillance 1-2 cameras max

Goals:

1. I’d really like to utilize mini ITX due to the small form factor…which is why Asrock is appealing. However, if performance/etc is an issue, I’d be willing to go mATX.
2. Quiet…and efficient…but, I can live with a slightly larger electric bill.
3. Safety...Raid setup…thinking Raidz2 is ideal with 6 drives, not including boot drives.
4. Fast…no video skipping/stuttering. Will using SSD for caching help?
5. Cost to performance ratios. Obviously would like to get the best bang for buck.
6. Have fun and learn about FreeNAS without too many install and compatibility troubles.

Proposed Build 1 (miniITX):

1. Asrock E3C236D2I(new!) Can’t find it anywhere yet. (I read the 1151 is new and unproven hardware)
   1. Also looking at E3C226D2I with Xeon E3 1200 v3 series, but hesitant due to having only 16GB max dimm on mobo.
2. Intel Xeon E3-1220 v5 SkyLake 3.0 GHz (passmark n/a?)
3. SAMSUNG 32GB (16GBx2) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR4 2133 (PC4 17000) Server Memory Model M393A2G40DB0-CPB. Samsung DDR4-2133 16GB/2Gx72 ECC CL15
4. Cases…so many to choose from…U-NAS NSC-800 Server Chassis or SilverStone DS380B or LIAN-LI CASE PC-Q25A MINI or Lian Li Pc-m25 or Node 304 or Array R2

Proposed Build 2 (mATX):

1. Supermicro X10SLM+-F (appears to be highly recommended)
2. Xeon Processor E3-1231V3B 3.4 4 LGA 1150 (passmark 9,619)
3. Crucial 32GB Kit (8GBx4) DDR3/DDR3L-1600MT/s (PC3-12800) DR x8 ECC UDIMM Server Memory CT2KIT102472BD160B/CT2CP102472BD160B
4. Cases...Again, so many to choose from...Lian Li Pc-m25 or Node 804 or Thermaltake Urban SD1

Common:

1. HARD DRIVES: HGST Deskstar NAS or WD Red NAS….4-6TB x 6…however much I can afford. At this point, not sure if HGST is worth the extra $50 per?
2. BOOT DRIVE: SanDisk Cruzer Fit 16GB x2..planning on mirroring 2 x SanDisk Ultra Fit CZ43 32GB USB 3.0
3. SeaSonic SSR-650RM 650W SeaSonic SSR-650RM 650W SeaSonic G Series SSR-550RM 550W

Thank you in advance.

 

[sremick]

The E3C226D2I is a sweet little board, but yes only getting up to 16GB RAM is a bummer. Perhaps my only complaint. But I wanted small... really small. MiniITX is smaller than MicroATX.

Skylake is bleeding-edge, and FreeNAS 9.3 is not bleeding-edge FreeBSD. You'd be on unexplored ground there. Not advised, but if you want to beta-test and don't mind having to spend more to get it right the 2nd time, go for it.

I love my Node 304 case, and it's extremely popular. It's ridiculous how much is crammed into that tiny thing.

Go with the WD Reds. The HGSTs have a slight statistical reliability advantage, but are louder, draw more electricity and generate more heat which you'll then have to cool away.

No complaints about the Xeon Processor E3-1231 V3 CPU. I liked it so much in my NAS I used it in my replacement desktop build as well.

 

[Dice]

I vote for "proposed build 2 (mATX)".
In particular due to this:

Have fun and learn about FreeNAS without too many install and compatibility troubles.

 

[anodos]

After researching and reading many posts (perhaps not enough yet), I’m looking at the below build for my needs. It’s my first NAS build so your advice is greatly appreciated.

I’m currently using my iMac as my Plex server with several external WD drives feeding Plex app on 3 televisions.

There’s no rush to purchase. I’m willing to wait if something better is right around the corner.

Use Cases:

1. Act as a storage of personal music, movies, pictures, and backups/images of home computers.
2. Ability to play back up to 3 streams of movies/music to devices around the house (Amazon FireTV on each TV in the house). I also have Plex installed on each Amazon FireTV.
3. Ability to access collection when away from home.
4. Futureproof - transcoding of 4k movies…or the very least, have a fighting chance
5. Video surveillance 1-2 cameras max

Goals:

1. I’d really like to utilize mini ITX due to the small form factor…which is why Asrock is appealing. However, if performance/etc is an issue, I’d be willing to go mATX.
2. Quiet…and efficient…but, I can live with a slightly larger electric bill.
3. Safety...Raid setup…thinking Raidz2 is ideal with 6 drives, not including boot drives.
4. Fast…no video skipping/stuttering. Will using SSD for caching help?
5. Cost to performance ratios. Obviously would like to get the best bang for buck.
6. Have fun and learn about FreeNAS without too many install and compatibility troubles.

Proposed Build 1 (miniITX):

1. Asrock E3C236D2I(new!) Can’t find it anywhere yet. (I read the 1151 is new and unproven hardware)
   1. Also looking at E3C226D2I with Xeon E3 1200 v3 series, but hesitant due to having only 16GB max dimm on mobo.
2. Intel Xeon E3-1220 v5 SkyLake 3.0 GHz (passmark n/a?)
3. ? SAMSUNG 32GB (16GBx2) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR4 2133 (PC4 17000) Server Memory Model M393A2G40DB0-CPB. Perhaps incorrect due to SDRAM and registered. It appears to be a challenge to find 16GB UDIMMs. 16GB (8GBx2) seem to defeat the purpose of getting this board.
4. Cases…so many to choose from…U-NAS NSC-800 Server Chassis or SilverStone DS380B or LIAN-LI CASE PC-Q25A MINI or Lian Li Pc-m25 or Node 304 or Array R2

Proposed Build 2 (mATX):

1. Supermicro X10SLM+-F (appears to be highly recommended)
2. Xeon Processor E3-1231V3B 3.4 4 LGA 1150 (passmark 9,619)
3. Crucial 32GB Kit (8GBx4) DDR3/DDR3L-1600MT/s (PC3-12800) DR x8 ECC UDIMM Server Memory CT2KIT102472BD160B/CT2CP102472BD160B
4. Cases...Again, so many to choose from...Lian Li Pc-m25 or Node 804 or Thermaltake Urban SD1

Common:

1. HARD DRIVES: HGST Deskstar NAS or WD Red NAS….4-6TB x 6…however much I can afford. At this point, not sure if HGST is worth the extra $50 per?
2. BOOT DRIVE: SanDisk Cruzer Fit 16GB x2..planning on mirroring
3. SeaSonic SSR-650RM 650W

Thank you in advance.

I'd avoid the U-NAS case. I've heard they roast drives.

 

[religiouslyconfused]

I would go with wd red. Hgst uses a higher rpm which is more heat and your bottleneck is going to be your network anyways. WD reds are very reliable and are proven to work with freenas.

 

[thepixelgeek]

Thank you all for the responses.

It sucks there aren't resonable miniITX boards capable of 64GB (unless I'm missing something). I did find X10SDV-TLN4F, but at over $400+, it's way too expensive. Plus it's using Intel Xeon processor D-1540 which equally expensive...and from what I can tell, way more unproven than X11, etc.

I will just have to give in and do mATX...happily of course.

Thanks to @Raiz for trying out the X11SSH-F! I may go that route.

 

[thepixelgeek]

Haha, well, more and more it's looking like Raiz's build.

Purposed Build 3(mATX):

1. Supermicro X11SSH-F
2. Intel Xeon E3-1220 v5 or Xeon E3-1230 v5
3. MEM: SuperMicro 16GB PC4-17000 DDR4-2133MHz ECC Unbuffered CL15 288-Pin DIMM 1.2V Dual Rank Memory Module Mfr P/N MEM-DR416L-SL01-EU21 or Samsung DDR4-2133 16GB/2Gx72 ECC CL15 Samsung Chip Server Memory. Supermicro is nearly double the cost ($225 vs $120), why? Is one better than the other? 2 x M391A2K43BB1-CPB
4. BOOT SSD: 128GB Curical M4 SSD. Still learning...can I use boot drives as caching too? And should they be mirrored? SanDisk Ultra Fit CZ43 32GB USB 3.0 or Silicon Power S60 60GB SSD for $35 or
   ADATA SP550 120GB SSD for $39 / 1 disk with external backup
5. SeaSonic SSR-650RM 650W SeaSonic G Series SSR-550RM 550W
6. CASE: Tough to find a nice small case that can hold 6 drives. So far my list is:
   1. Lian Li Pc-m25
   2. Node 804
   3. Thermaltake Urban SD1
   4. Nanoxia DS 4
   5. [new addition] Fractal R5
   6. or other? I wish I could fit more drives into the Aerocool DS cube!
7. CACHE: Crucial M4 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) CT128M4SSD2
8. DRIVES: 6 x 4TB WD Reds (raidz2) Does that give me 16TB available space?

Am I missing anything?

 

[religiouslyconfused]

RAM appears to be Registered ECC which is not compatible with Xeon E3. Xeon E3's can take ECC but not registered ECC.

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=D416GE21S

This RAM is on the Supermicro QVL for the X11SSH-F motherboard so it works fine.

 

[Raiz]

RAM appears to be Registered ECC which is not compatible with Xeon E3. Xeon's can take ECC but not registered ECC.

Agreed. Don't make the same mistake as I did and order registered memory. Supermicro is not friendly on the return fees. That's also why my signature said UNfreakinBUFFERED!

Keep in mind I went way overboard on the needed power supply. You could get away with a lot less. My system uses 55W idle and 70W under "load". I just found the 650W PSU for cheap and went for it.

The reason I went with the 1230 instead of the 1220, was for the extra cores/hyperthreading. I honestly have no idea how this translates to real world performance, but I know I can stream 6 movies in 1080p (just tried it), and the CPU wasn't even close to being fully utilized. Either my HDD transfer speed or my home network was maxed out and wouldn't start the 7th movie.

 

[religiouslyconfused]

Though I checked the part numbers and they seem to match what is on the QVL, but personally I recommend getting the M391A2K43BB1-CPB on SuperBiiz as they seem to be the cheapest. There is a supermicro part number for that RAM.

I guess I am wrong, but make sure the RAM is unbuffered ECC DDR4 for that platform.

 

[Dice]

128GB Curical M4 SSD. Still learning...can I use boot drives as caching too? And should they be mirrored?

Boot drives cannot be used for caching.
They cannot be used for anything else than loading the OS. That's how the USB-boot option make sense.
USB drives should definitely be mirrored due to the low added extra cost.
A good SSD should not "need" mirroring.
I will myself use one low budget new SSD, and an older "laying around" SSD, mirrored.
I would prefer to "replace and attach a new drive" over completely restoring the freenas from backed up config files, granted all the risks that comes with not pulling it off perfect. From reading on the forums, I've gathered a sense that it should be nothing problematic, yet it seems to cause people to get way more nervous than replacing a failed mirrored boot drive.
To me, this makes it rather straight forward to aim for a mirrored boot drive setup.
Also - a not on space. The boot drive cannot be used for anything else than saving boot environments which do not occupy a lot of space. You could still fit a number of them on a 16gb drive.
That said, 128gb SSD is hugely overkill.
I recon the best option is to find two smaller, probably at close to the same total price as one "good and large" SSD.

Cheers /

 

[thepixelgeek]

Boot drives cannot be used for caching.
They cannot be used for anything else than loading the OS. That's how the USB-boot option make sense.
USB drives should definitely be mirrored due to the low added extra cost.
A good SSD should not "need" mirroring.
I will myself use one low budget new SSD, and an older "laying around" SSD, mirrored.
I would prefer to "replace and attach a new drive" over completely restoring the freenas from backed up config files, granted all the risks that comes with not pulling it off perfect. From reading on the forums, I've gathered a sense that it should be nothing problematic, yet it seems to cause people to get way more nervous than replacing a failed mirrored boot drive.
To me, this makes it rather straight forward to aim for a mirrored boot drive setup.
Also - a not on space. The boot drive cannot be used for anything else than saving boot environments which do not occupy a lot of space. You could still fit a number of them on a 16gb drive.
That said, 128gb SSD is hugely overkill.
I recon the best option is to find two smaller, probably at close to the same total price as one "good and large" SSD.

Cheers / Dice

Think I got it...So I'm tracking this correctly...utilizing 2 smaller usb disks, in mirrored, for boot drive (only) is recommended. Or, I can get one SSD, low budget. However, it's still a good idea to mirror two SSDs. What is the ideal size? [UPDATE: 2 x SanDisk Ultra Fit CZ43 32GB USB 3.0]. Is 32GB overkill, not needed? 16GB better choice?

Additionally, I should look to purchase a separate SSD for caching, yes?

 

[thepixelgeek]

Agreed. Don't make the same mistake as I did and order registered memory. Supermicro is not friendly on the return fees. That's also why my signature said UNfreakinBUFFERED!

Keep in mind I went way overboard on the needed power supply. You could get away with a lot less. My system uses 55W idle and 70W under "load". I just found the 650W PSU for cheap and went for it.

The reason I went with the 1230 instead of the 1220, was for the extra cores/hyperthreading. I honestly have no idea how this translates to real world performance, but I know I can stream 6 movies in 1080p (just tried it), and the CPU wasn't even close to being fully utilized. My home network on the other hand was maxed out and wouldn't start the 7th movie.

Good point...I do remember reading that!

As far as I can tell, the Supermicro site, tested memory, pointed me to 8GB (Samsung $115) and 16GB (Supermicro $225). I'm assuming they are UNfreakinBUFFERD!, but unless I missed it, it's doesn't state that in specs (grrr). Are there better alternatives? [update: This was suggested...M391A2K43BB1-CPB] I think I'll go with that. Updated my purposed build post.

As for power supply, will 550w work? I've read that the G series is the way to go where efficiency is concerned. But, are they quiet too?

 

[Dice]

Is 32GB overkill, not needed? 16GB better choice?

No, 32gb has been 'recommended for future proof' in some threads. But, if counting bytes, U're still fine with 16gb, no doubt.

Additionally, I should look to purchase a separate SSD for caching, yes?

Not from the 'get go'.

 

[thepixelgeek]

No, 32gb has been 'recommended for future proof' in some threads. But, if counting bytes, U're still fine with 16gb, no doubt.

Not from the 'get go'.

Cool...I'll wait to get the ssd...and 32gb is cheap enough. Might as well go with it.

 

[Raiz]

You're not talking about a 32GB USB stick right? USB sticks don't work with X11 boards because FreeBSD doesn't have the driver support yet. You have to use something like an SSD, M.2, or similar.

 

[thepixelgeek]

You're not talking about a 32GB USB stick right? USB sticks don't work with X11 boards because FreeBSD doesn't have the driver support yet. You have to use something like an SSD, M.2, or similar.

Doh!...I did say USB...learning curve.

Assuming these would be ok to use?
SanDisk ReadyCache SDSSDRC-032G-G26 2.5" 32GB SATA III SDSSDRC-032G-G26 ( Using 2 Sandisk with 6 WD Reds, I should be ok since there are 8 sata ports with that x11 board?)
or
SUPERMICRO SSD-DM032-PHI SATA DOM (SuperDOM) Solutions

In terms of booting and ease of use, which would be better?

 

[joeschmuck]

IMO you should run a single SSD as a boot device vice a mirror of them and any size from 16GB and up will be fine, even the SDSSDRC-032G-G26 you mentioned but there are cheaper models available, just backup your configuration file like everyone should be doing just in case of a failure. As for RAM, I'd opt for two sticks of RAM to make a total of either 16GB or 32GB, your choice. If you can afford 32GB, well it gives you lots of future proofing built in however to do what you desire, 16GB should be fine. As for a cache drive, that will not help your situation, more RAM is always better than a cache drive.

The only thing I'd caution you on is to ensure that whichever case you decide on, that your system will remain cool. Heat will kill hard drives quickly and you also wanted a quiet system so a lot of high speed fans do kill the moment of it being quiet. I have a very large High Airflow case, it's not small but you can't hear a thing and all my components stay cool. Like you said in your first posting, you're not in a hurry so that means you can get this right the first time.

Good Luck.

 

[thepixelgeek]

IMO you should run a single SSD as a boot device vice a mirror of them and any size from 16GB and up will be fine, even the SDSSDRC-032G-G26 you mentioned but there are cheaper models available,

Good Luck.

I'd be interested having the link to where I can find 32GB SATA III SSD for cheaper than $49.99. So far, my searches haven't produced any. [update: Figures, right after I posted, I found this for $39.99:

ADATA USA Premier SP600 2.5-Inch 32 GB SATA III Synchronous NAND SSD ASP600S3-32GM-C

I'm assuming the ADATA would be recommended for purposed build 3, x11 board?

 

[Dice]

I have a very large High Airflow case

Any pics / further information on this? :)