Launch of New Forums!

[Kris Moore]

Some of us only read certain topics. For example, I skip the VM and App sub-forums. I never use read all new posts, as that would take too much time.

Plus, for threads that I am not following, the title / subject has to capture my attention. If worded poorly, I will probably skip a thread. Especially if others have responded, (which I can see the count in Xenfro).

This is part of the reason we setup the tagging the way we did, and also broke out the Apps / VMs into their own section. Hopefully its easier to find relevant material now, for example filtering on only things marked SMB is possible.

Do I have to say the most probably reason for the change?
Money. Xenfro costs money, and Discourse is both open source & free.

The Open Source side is always a positive, fits with our own ethos and software development models :)

 

[Kris Moore]

So, if this is not a joke, what about Resources?

Some of us spent many hours creating some, and that makes answering questions occasionally easier.

We can migrate resources over as needed. @wsoteros just did one now:

How to Create a Good Bug Report | Issue Reporting in Jira

We encourage all users to help us make TrueNAS the best NAS by reporting issues, requesting potentially helpful features, and relaying security vulnerabilities. Issue Reporting in Jira iXsystems uses Jira to track bugs and develop features. You can view public issues without logging in, but you...

forums.truenas.com

 

[Davvo]

What do you hate about it specifically? It's our mission to make it a place where everyone wants to hang out.

Personally, the UI feels way too crammed and dispersive. Not intuitive at all.
Then there are other more fundamental issues, but all come from the (flawled) base concept imho.

 

[wsoteros]

Personally, the UI feels way too crammed and dispersive. Not intuitive at all.
Then there are other more fundamental issues, but all come from the (flawled) base concept imho.

Interesting, thank you for the feedback. While I can't promise immediate changes, we for sure will take a look at theming/style in the future.

 

[danb35]

So the new user level designations that were such a big deal are gone. The "prove your expertise" badge that was such a big deal is gone. Of course, post counts and history are gone. I don't really care about the first two, but the latter really does seem to be a problem, and keeping both forums alive doesn't seem like a viable solution to it.

 

[Stux]

Sigh.

I was already saddened that so many useful threads were read only.

Guess I’ll wait to start some “Part 2” threads.

 

[danb35]

Some of us only read certain topics.

It's easy enough to list new threads only within a certain "category", which is what Discourse calls sub-forums. And any listing of "topics" (threads) lists the number of replies.

 

[Davvo]

One of the biggest strenghts of TrueNAS, for non-enterprise versions, is its community; some would say its biggest strenght. This strenght has been built year by year by knowledgeable users post after post on this forum. Switching to another one, for whatever benefits you have identified, without porting its content is going to deal a huge blow to this strenght.
You are betting big this time: I daresay that such a switch would be the final nail on the coffin of what has been TrueNAS up until now, because I honestly don't see this forum remaining up for much longer after the official switch.

Make sure to weigh the options well, iX.​

 

[danb35]

At least this should finally resolve the problem (discussed here, here, here, and here, among no doubt others) of subforums here multiplying like particularly randy rabbits, with no apparent rhyme or reason. If that hadn't been happening for a long time, maybe data migration could have happened more cleanly. I'm a little surprised (though not bothered) iX aren't using subcategories on the new site, though.

But this really goes to a question that's been asked many times over several years: iX, do you have any kind of plan for what you're doing, or are you just winging it? The question isn't limited to what you're doing with the forums, but it certainly has application here. In the case of the forum, you've been creating subforums at random and placing them about as carefully as though you were throwing darts blindfolded, and doing this for years. It was just a few months ago you created a "community contributions" subforum, and just weeks ago you created a "Dragonfish" subforum. Neither of those is relevant now. But to the extent there was ever any serious thought given to the forum layout here (which I question), you've tossed it out the window with the new site.

 

[truecharts]

@wsoteros feel free to migrate our resource when you've some spare time! :)

We want to highlight, that one of the reasons we're delaying our own forum so long, is because we want to run a classic forum experience on the discourse backend and setting that up takes time.

This "endless-scrolling" thread style is not something most of our staff appreciate, so as far as they where present here, expect this to be less so on the discourse platform.

 

[Davvo]

At least this should finally resolve the problem (discussed here, here, here, and here, among no doubt others) of subforums here multiplying like particularly randy rabbits, with no apparent rhyme or reason.

I foresee categories and tags becoming taking the place of subformus. The issue here is not the tool but the hand. Totally agree with the rest of the post.

Also, darn it! There is no justify text in the new forum! My OCD will make me explode.

 

[danb35]

I foresee categories and tags becoming taking the place of subformus. The issue here is not the tool but the hand.

Somewhat, but the tool influences how the hand does things. Discourse strongly discourages (as in, the admin UI will complain to you pretty loudly) more than about a half-dozen categories, though they can have subcategories (which, again, I'm surprised iX aren't using). Tags wouldn't cause the same kinds of problems in finding (or posting in the right place) things as does the current forum structure here.

There is no justify text in the new forum!

There I think you're right.

 

[Davvo]

Fiddled a bit more with it, tried to port my Data Loss Risk resource here... gosh, we will suffer. A lot. A whole damn lot!
My experience so far is that there are a few very good QoL improvements on certain things... but a ton of downsides and loss of QoL functions on others! Formatting-wise, Discord... Discussion... Discorde... DISCOURSE does not hold a candle to XenForum.​

 

[danb35]

gosh, we will suffer. A lot. A whole damn lot!

Because you can't justify text as desired? You can do tables. You can do images. You can do headings, at several different levels. Surely you aren't saying "we will suffer, a whole damn lot" because you can't make text green in Discourse.

 

[wsoteros]

So the new user level designations that were such a big deal are gone. The "prove your expertise" badge that was such a big deal is gone. Of course, post counts and history are gone. I don't really care about the first two, but the latter really does seem to be a problem, and keeping both forums alive doesn't seem like a viable solution to it.

This is being worked on in the background and being ported over. Please bear with us, were new to this and want to make sure we get the core experience working well first.

I am happy to go on the record to say that anyone who had the badge here will also be awarded with it in the new forums.

 

[Davvo]

Because you can't justify text as desired? You can do tables. You can do images. You can do headings, at several different levels. Surely you aren't saying "we will suffer, a whole damn lot" because you can't make text green in Discourse.

Because from a QoL (ease of use) point of view it's a huge pain to format text there. For example as far as I know you can't set text aligment at all, and in order to color text you need to use either html or latex, which means awfully long code insertion for minor formatting enhancement that provides a huge boost to a post's readability!

It also sets the bar to a substantially higher knowledge level. Not a fan of this, even if the forum is meant for enthusiasts and professionals.

I feel like I got a more powerful car that lacks basic things like turn signal commands, and in order to make it work I need to short the circuits!​

 

[danb35]

were new to this and want to make sure we get the core experience working well first.

Maybe then the launch of the new site, and making this site read-only at the end of this week, were a little premature?

 

[wsoteros]

Maybe then the launch of the new site, and making this site read-only at the end of this week, were a little premature?

In this case, the forums are a place of discussion, which already exists on the new forums. I'd argue that everything someone needs to diagnose an issue or discuss a bug is good to go on Discourse. In the case of levels, badges, formatting, and some other things, we are gathering feedback along the way and improving as we go!

That being said, just like this forum, the way Discourse stands today is not the same it will be 1 years time. We're working hard to make it the best place to be :) Please bear with us.

 

[Davvo]

That being said, just like this forum, the way Discourse stands today is not the same it will be 1 years time. We're working hard to make it the best place to be :) Please bear with us.​

Imho you really have to consider the way this community is perceiving all this... unexpected changes. I am not entitled to speak for others, but I seem to understand that we got quite burned with the whole CORE situation. I really feel this might be a similar situation.
You might burn some of us too much, and it would be a pity.​

 

[danb35]

formatting enhancement that provides a huge boost to a post's readability!

Obviously "I don't need it" doesn't mean you don't need it, but I can count on one hand the number of times I've felt the need to use colored text in a post (other than predefined styles like the file tag here). And colored text has the potential to have poor visibility with forum themes other than the default, which has happened around here quite a bit (at least for people who, like me, use the dark theme).

Justification isn't going to turn invisible with a different forum theme, but how important is it? I'd argue that full-justification is never needed. Left/right/center can occasionally be helpful, though even that would be fairly rare IMO.

So, with that said: can you make your "risk of data loss" resource look identical on the new site to how it does here? No. Full-justification just isn't available AFAICT on Discourse. The other formatting features can happen--centering would require an additional plugin on the site (that does exist and they can add, but it isn't there yet), and color requires some funky HTML tags. But can you readily retain the logical divisions? Sure you can, using different levels of headings. Tables, again, are already supported. Images are supported. Blockquotes are supported. And I think the availability of footnotes will be helpful for longer posts like yours.

Imho you really have to consider the way this community is perceiving all this... unexpected changes.

Here I completely agree with you. I'd add that it also looks like they've decided this forum is irredeemably broken, so they just have to toss it and start a new one. Particularly when the answer to this question:

iX, do you have any kind of plan for what you're doing,

is quite obviously "no."