Would a Nas be the right choice at all

[Fleutius]

Hello there.

I am currently searching for the right way to secure the company's files.
Of course, a NAS would do this fine if it was just a backup question, but i also am having a hard time finding our whether or not freenas, would be able to sync files between devices.

The situation is as follows. We currently have a dropbox, where our files are located in order for us to work on (and update) the same file.

It is very important for us, to be able to view the exact same documents, since we constantly make changes that are important to the workings of our business.

Would this be doable in a Freenas environment. And even if possible, done without ZFS since i am trying to keep costs down.

 

[Victor866]

Hello Fleutius,

In my opinion Dropbox is not the best option to keep your company data.
I'm constantly using Bittorrent Sync and OwnCloud on my FreeNAS.
With Bittorrent Sync you can create folders for each project, every folder have their own key (only read, read and write permission) you need to share each key with the people involved on each project.
If any person edit one file, everyone are going to receive a notification if they have the Bittorrent Sync app installed on their computer.

Obviously with FreeNAS you are responsible for your information, and you can keep secure your files with you and not with some external company.

I'm still a newbie on this matters, but this is my opinion :)

 

[Fleutius]

Thank you Victor.

That helps me a bit on my path. I am completely aware that dropbox is not even close to secure enough.

However there are still a few questions.

While searching for Nas solutions, i have constantly run into the issue of ECC Memory.

I understand that ECC Memory is the way to go if you are using ZFS filesystem, but how possible (or impossible) is it to use the UFS filesystem instead.

With the parts i have looked at for a NAS computer with a good amount of power i have come to a pricepoint around 470$

however, if i need ECC Memory, the price skyrockets to 700$ due to the cost of the motherboard.

The memory itself is actually not really more expensive, but i have been unable to find motherboards (Other than Microsystems) that can handle ECC.

I was hoping to go with a Pentium G3220(Socket 1150) or a G2020 (socket 1156) but finding a cheap motherboard that supports ECC have been in vain.

 

[Ericloewe]

If you're storing business data, not using ECC is irresponsible.

The hardware we recommend isn't expensive. It's the hardware that we don't recommend that's cheap - with all the implications of the word, including terrible quality.

 

[Fleutius]

If you're storing business data, not using ECC is irresponsible.

The hardware we recommend isn't expensive. It's the hardware that we don't recommend that's cheap - with all the implications of the word, including terrible quality.

I fully understand what you are saying, and if i could rule the world, i would not even be arguing about it ;) But when your boss even snuffs about 470$, then the last hit up to 700 is quite large.

the problem lies in the fact that all that we really need is 2 TB of space. that is actually completely enough for the next many years.
We dont have that much data, but i really wish it to be secure, and scalable.

 

[BigDave]

Hello there.

I am currently searching for the right way to secure the company's files.

UFS would not be the "right way" IMHO. If you require solid reliabilty, go with the recommended hardware and ZFS, period!

Of course, a NAS would do this fine if it was just a backup question, but i also am having a hard time finding our whether or not freenas, would be able to sync files between devices.

The situation is as follows. We currently have a dropbox, where our files are located in order for us to work on (and update) the same file.

It is very important for us, to be able to view the exact same documents, since we constantly make changes that are important to the workings of our business.

Would this be doable in a Freenas environment.

There are a number of ways to do this with FreeNAS.

And even if possible, done without ZFS since i am trying to keep costs down.

Cheaper = less reliable ;)

 

[cyberjock]

If I were you I'd find a new job. If the boss is more concerned with keeping costs low than doing the right thing, if things go bad he'll throw you under the bus without a second thought. $1000 is literally a drop in the bucket for a good NAS solution.

I just worked with someone earlier this week that had problems because they tried to keep costs down. About 36 hours into the problem they were looking at a very harsh reality... the company might be done for. I tried to help him in IRC and later on the phone and we were able to get the data back. He's still worried that due to a breach of contract the company might end up in litigation and might still be lost. It's a little sad because if this happens a few dozen people will lose their job.

In short, companies that look at the cost of the hardware are generally taking serious risks, and you don't want to be the IT admin at a company that goes out of business for an IT screw-up. You may be blamed (even if it wasn't your fault) and it could be a death keel for your career. It's just not worth it.

The idea of using Dropbox scares me though. I've seen file conflicts just because two people edited the same file at the same time.

Anyway, if you want to go to FreeNAS (or any good NAS solution for that matter) you should be ready to read up on how to use it, then do *exactly* what is recommended. If it says you should use a red chassis, you should use a red chassis. If you can't do what is recommended you shouldn't use that solution. File servers aren't cheap. They should use ECC RAM without question. Not using ECC RAM can potentially destroy your file server (and data recovery isn't cheap). I've only known 1 person that was willing to pay for data recover and just 500GB of data cost almost $20,000. So if he's going to be upset about a $1000 server he'll be thrilled to hear about the cost of data recovery if you don't do things properly. ;)

To sum up my post, the stakes are much higher than just a NAS solution. Either do it right or don't do it. And I don't see how something like Dropbox is going to be a good choice (or even a long-term option).

 

[Fleutius]

If I were you I'd find a new job. If the boss is more concerned with keeping costs low than doing the right thing, if things go bad he'll throw you under the bus without a second thought. .

I appriciate your concern, but my boss is also my father ;)
I dont think he will throw me under the bus, but we are just the two of us. The thing is he is not exactly used to computers as soon as we go father than daily use.

Before i entered the company, there was not even a website ;)

I have spend a good amount of money in percent of our income, on bringing new life to the company, and doing a lot of that in the way of IT.
But some of it has been a struggle :)

 

[cyberjock]

Interesting. That's definitely a unique situation. I think you should show him this thread and you and him need to discuss this. Either he needs to start trusting your IT background or you guys need to figure out where to go to get better IT experience.

FreeNAS isn't for everyone. NASes aren't for everyone. A friend's church wants some "always available" storage for the church, but building a FreeNAS server (even with me donating my time) is out of the question for their budget for disk space. So they have a little WD Book or something. It works well enough. It's not the most secure device for protecting their data and they have no backups at all. But that is the price point that they wanted. ;)

WD Book: $150 or so.
FreeNAS server: $1k starting.

Can't argue with those numbers.

 

[Fleutius]

Interesting. That's definitely a unique situation. I think you should show him this thread and you and him need to discuss this. Either he needs to start trusting your IT background or you guys need to figure out where to go to get better IT experience.

FreeNAS isn't for everyone. NASes aren't for everyone. A friend's church wants some "always available" storage for the church, but building a FreeNAS server (even with me donating my time) is out of the question for their budget for disk space. So they have a little WD Book or something. It works well enough. It's not the most secure device for protecting their data and they have no backups at all. But that is the price point that they wanted. ;)

WD Book: $150 or so.
FreeNAS server: $1k starting.

Can't argue with those numbers.

You are quite right. I will take a talk with him.

Do you have any opinion with a cloud service like SpiderOak, since it is at least encrypted?
But the fight is not over yet, i will still try to convince him that we should go with a proper NAS

 

[cyberjock]

The vast majority of users here find cloud services despicable. Before you hang your hat on "they have encryption so they are secure" if they are storing the key on their servers it's not really any more secure. You really need to know how all this tech works to truly have an informed opinion. I know that outside of the USA people are laughing at us because so many companies have moved to the cloud only to find they are insecure. A recent study said that 15% of cloud services owned by business have been hacked. That's horribly bad....

 

[gpsguy]

Just have them buy a HP N54L Microserver, install 8.3.2 and call it a day.

A friend's church wants some "always available" storage for the church, but building a FreeNAS server (even with me donating my time) is out of the question for their budget for disk space.

 

[jal]

Fleutius,

If you really only need a couple of terabytes and cost pressure is an issue, I would have to say that using FreeNAS is most likely more expensive and complex than you need. It is complex and designed for uses where the cost differential of an EEC-capable motherboard tend to be a rounding error. Without decent hardware on which to run and an knowledgable administrator to run it, I think the odds of losing data will be substantially higher with FreeNAS than your current arrangement.

A small network drive and a backup regime *that you practice* is likely enough. (Too many small businesses never get beyond the cargo-cult routine of swapping out tapes or whatever, until a disaster does hit, at which point they learn that something was wrong with their backup regime. Treat it like taxes: test your backups at least once a quarter!)

I don't know your setup, but if you have a server of some sort, hang a couple of quality drives off of it, schedule a synchronization scheme between them that makes sense for how your business works, schedule your backup, and you're likely set. You'll have a live copy for when a drive does fail, you'll have a backup for corruption/user error/office burnt down, and it is cheap with a pretty simple learning curve.

Hope this helps.

 

[Rilo Ravestein]

What kind of documents you are working on? Cant you just use Google docs or the online MS office version or something similar for this? My company does, and it works really well for its purpose.