Upgrading to ECC - Low budget, need clarification

[Tertius Carstens]

I'm upgrading from the following setup:

• ASRock - H61MV-ITX.
• Intel G540.
• 8GB.
• 3x Seagte 3TB.
• 1x 500GB OS drive.
• Ubuntu 16.04 running ZFS on the Seagates.

How I use it:

• Remote borg backup. (4 hrs drive away).
• No other use.

Why upgrade?:

• Adding 3x3TB from another server into it.
• Time for ECC.

I've been reading: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/which-cheap-cpu-motherboard-for-freenas-11.61802/ and think it may be the direction I need to go in, but want to clarify.

Questions:

• Is there an option that allows 7+ drives without the need for an add in card? Card is fine, except if there's another option.
• What other CPU options do I have. I like to get the best bang for the buck but not up to date on Xeons.

I have the following already:

• Define R3.
• 6x 6TB drives.
• PSU.

Budget for CPU, Mobo and RAM (optional HBA): $300-400.

Bonus points: It would be great if the system is performant enough for 10Gbe down the road.

 

[PhiloEpisteme]

Budget for CPU, Mobo and RAM (optional HBA): $300-400.

I'd suggest used. There are lots of very useful links for hardware in the resources section such as the aptly named Hardware Recommendations Guide

If you're motherboard does not have >6 SATA ports you'll have to get an add-on card to support more drives. You can pick up an 8-port LSI-9211 card cheaply from ebay for not too much money. Make sure it is not a RAID card or flash it to IT mode, there are plenty of forum posts detailing why you should not use a RAID card without flashing it to IT mode.

Pick a board that supports ECC memory. If you're on a budget I'd suggest the x9 or x10 supermicro boards. If you're just doing backups you may even be fine going older with an x8. I recently bought an X9SCM-F for my own backup server. Do note though that some boards require flashing the bios to support newer CPUs. Check the manufacturer's manual to be sure.

It has been suggested to me and in other places in the forums to get the most memory you can afford

A great resource for picking a CPU which has support for what you need is intel's processor ark page. If I were you I'd pick an HBA, motherboard, and memory and then with whatever budget you have left get the best used CPU that'll work on your board.

Do you have parts in mind?

Bonus points: It would be great if the system is performant enough for 10Gbe down the road.

If you think you'll want/need a 10Gbs NIC you'll just need the requisite card. Just make sure that whichever board you go with has enough PCIe slots. If you're just doing off-site backups I'm not sure the 10Gbps card will give you any speed increase. You're local machine, router, ISP etc would all have to support 10Gbe upload.

 

[Tertius Carstens]

If you think you'll want/need a 10Gbs NIC you'll just need the requisite card. Just make sure that whichever board you go with has enough PCIe slots. If you're just doing off-site backups I'm not sure the 10Gbps card will give you any speed increase. You're local machine, router, ISP etc would all have to support 10Gbe upload.

This is just for if I ever bring it local.

 

[PhiloEpisteme]

This is just for if I ever bring it local.

Ah, in that case just make sure your board has an available 8x slot (most cards seem to use an 8x slot). If you ever decide to grow the number of disks you have you may need another controller though so keep that in mind.

 

[Chris Moore]

1x 500GB OS drive.

You really don't need a boot drive that large. You would spend your money better by having a mirrored pair of smaller drives, even if they are mechanical drives. FreeNAS uses ZFS for all storage, even the boot pool, and ZFS uses redundant disks to be able to recover from any data errors that occur.

Is there an option that allows 7+ drives without the need for an add in card? Card is fine, except if there's another option.

The best way to connect data drives, because of the reliability of it, is through a SAS HBA. It isn't a requirement, but it is very reliable. Here is what I use:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-H220-6G...9205-8i-P20-IT-Mode-From-US-Ship/192639052923
and a set of cables like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Mini-12...in-HDD-Hard-Drive-Splitter-Cable/401051944262

You can read more about it in this resource:

Don't be afraid to be SAS-sy
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?resources/don't-be-afraid-to-be-sas-sy.48/

What other CPU options do I have. I like to get the best bang for the buck but not up to date on Xeons.

You might consider something like this:
ntel Xeon E3-1230V2 SR0P4 3.30GHz Processor
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SR0P4-Inte...d-Core-CM8063701098101-Processor/202572624908
US $74.00

Super Micro X9SCM-F, LGA 1155, Intel C204, Micro ATX server motherboard
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-SuperM...rd-Accessoreis-are-not-included-/352358089215
US $77.77

16GB 2X8GB Memory RAM Intel Xeon E3 ONLY DDR3, 1600MHz, ECC, CL11, 2R, X8, 1.5V, Unbuffered, DIMM, 240-pin
https://www.ebay.com/itm/16GB-2X8GB...-CMT-SFF-Intel-Xeon-E3-ONLY-B89-/301855376261
US $126.00

 

[Tertius Carstens]

You really don't need a boot drive that large. You would spend your money better by having a mirrored pair of smaller drives, even if they are mechanical drives. FreeNAS uses ZFS for all storage, even the boot pool, and ZFS uses redundant disks to be able to recover from any data errors that occur.

The only reason I have a 500GB boot drive is because I had a smaller 160GB that failed and the 500GB was laying around to replace it.

As I said, I'm not running Freenas on the 500GB because Ubuntu (using ZFS on the backup drives) is more versatile as far as remote backup behind a firewall. But my mind is open to being changed, last time I used Freenas (on this same box) was freenas 9.

The best way to connect data drives, because of the reliability of it, is through a SAS HBA. It isn't a requirement, but it is very reliable. Here is what I use:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-H220-6G...9205-8i-P20-IT-Mode-From-US-Ship/192639052923
and a set of cables like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Mini-12...in-HDD-Hard-Drive-Splitter-Cable/401051944262

You can read more about it in this resource:

Don't be afraid to be SAS-sy
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?resources/don't-be-afraid-to-be-sas-sy.48/

You might consider something like this:
ntel Xeon E3-1230V2 SR0P4 3.30GHz Processor
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SR0P4-Inte...d-Core-CM8063701098101-Processor/202572624908
US $74.00

Super Micro X9SCM-F, LGA 1155, Intel C204, Micro ATX server motherboard
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-SuperM...rd-Accessoreis-are-not-included-/352358089215
US $77.77

16GB 2X8GB Memory RAM Intel Xeon E3 ONLY DDR3, 1600MHz, ECC, CL11, 2R, X8, 1.5V, Unbuffered, DIMM, 240-pin
https://www.ebay.com/itm/16GB-2X8GB...-CMT-SFF-Intel-Xeon-E3-ONLY-B89-/301855376261
US $126.00

Did see your same recommendation on the post that I quoted. Thank you for the recommitment to it. My mind is pretty much made up then.

 

[Chris Moore]

last time I used Freenas (on this same box) was freenas 9.

Many things have changed since 9, but some things are still the same.

But my mind is open to being changed

For the boot drives, the thing I like, and am using on several servers at work, are these Intel SSDs. They are too small to be useful for much, so they are pretty cheap, but they are still great for FreeNAS boot drives because FreeNAS doesn't need a lot of room for the boot pool.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-40GB-2-5-SATA-Laptop-Solid-State-Drive/143086630041
I have bought more than a dozen of these older SSDs over the last five years and only ever had one of them go bad on me.
Generally SSDs are super reliable so you don't absolutely need a mirrored pair, but with redundancy, ZFS can correct data errors if they occur, so it is always a good idea to do it if you can.

 

[Tertius Carstens]

The best way to connect data drives, because of the reliability of it, is through a SAS HBA. It isn't a requirement, but it is very reliable. Here is what I use:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-H220-6G...9205-8i-P20-IT-Mode-From-US-Ship/192639052923
and a set of cables like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Mini-12...in-HDD-Hard-Drive-Splitter-Cable/401051944262

Do I really need to worry about 9211 vs. 9205 etc. for the HBA? Don't know enough on this front.

 

[Chris Moore]

Do I really need to worry about 9211 vs. 9205 etc. for the HBA? Don't know enough on this front.

I don't think you're going to see a difference between the two in a configuration of only eight drives.

PS. The 9205 is a newer card that is PCI-E 3.0 where the 9211 is a slightly older generation card that is PCI-E 2.0 but the limitations of the PCI-E 2.0 interface will not be a factor until you have a lot more than eight drives connected, or if you were using SSDs for your storage pool.

 

[Tertius Carstens]

PS. The 9205 is a newer card that is PCI-E 3.0 where the 9211 is a slightly older generation card that is PCI-E 2.0 but the limitations of the PCI-E 2.0 interface will not be a factor until you have a lot more than eight drives connected, or if you were using SSDs for your storage pool.

Ah, then that suites me just fine.

Quick question: What would be the point of me getting new/faster hardware above what you've suggested? I understand more RAM/power usage, but what about the rest?

Why would a faster CPU be helpful? Or a newer generation motherboard etc.?

 

[Chris Moore]

Why would a faster CPU be helpful?

Because many things in FreeNAS are CPU bound, compression of data read from and written to the pool for example, also calculation of the checksum when data is read from or written to the pool, etc. If you have a really slow CPU, it can slow down the function of the system. I did that with one of my builds, trying to go for a low power consumption, I went too low on CPU capability and the system was slower than the system I had intended to replace. I was so dissatisfied with it, I ended up building another replacement just about a year later. Between 2011and 2018, I built eight FreeNAS systems for myself in an effort to get it to do what I wanted and have enough performance to make me happy. I built the first few cheap and got a lot of lessons-learned from first hand trial and error.

Or a newer generation motherboard etc.?

The newer generation motherboard, would allow the use of a newer generation CPU which might save you a little on power consumption but is otherwise not useful for much. The change from one generation to the next on the Intel CPUs has been very small in regard to performance over the last three to five years, at least in the budget friendly part of the market. I don't think it is worth the extra money to go with the high-end offerings, not for FreeNAS, and certainly not for the backup build you described.
We have a couple guides that have been put together by other moderators if you want to look at more options:

Hardware Recommendations Guide Rev. 1e) 2017-05-06
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?resources/hardware-recommendations-guide.12/

Hardware Recommendations by cyberjock - from 26 Aug 2014 - and still valid
https://forums.freenas.org/threads/hardware-recommendations-read-this-first.23069/