Are Storage Crates A Good Idea?

[iPlex]

I am not sure where to put this, I'm guessing Off Topic is a good place.

Some background: I am the IT guy for a church and we record the sermons every week which are around 70GB each (uncompressed 720p). At this point we just make a DVD of it then delete the 720p file. This is starting to get to me, because if we ever need that sermon again (for broadcast on TV, VoD, Etc) we wouldn't have s high quality version and we'd have to use the DVD quality version, which I know is probably good enough for a simple sermon but I like my pixels and not to mention some of them include PowerPoint/Keynote presentations and the text is hard to read at DVD quality.

My solution has to be cheap as possible since my budget is basically $0

So my idea!

Basically is to a use plastic CD Storage Container and Foam to build a crate that will hold 6 or 7 9.5 mm 2.5" HDDs. I am planning on using 320 GB - 500 GB HDDs to fit 1 month of sermons per HDD.

I've done some googling and it seems like as long as the hard drives are stored in good conditions so that the mechanical parts of the HDDs won't fail they will last and importantly retain data on them for a long time (8 to 12 years).

I feel like I am missing something here.... Some design flaw that will only arise when I need the data. Thoughts and criticism are needed!

EDIT!

I built a prototype!

 

[m0nkey_]

If you're going home made, put the drives in anti-static bags: www.amazon.com/Bluecell-Antistatic-Resealable-Electronic-Device/dp/B00AMAXI5C/

FYI, Amazon have something for this: www.amazon.com/Gorilla-Drive-Box-Carrying-Resistant/dp/B007OXK0YM

 

[jgreco]

They make actual sleeves for the purpose;

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002GWO8OY/?tag=ozlp-20

However, it seems likely that you might be better off going with something like 25GB M-Disc, see

http://www.mdisc.com/m-ready/

I realize that won't hold a 70GB file, but, y'know, UNIX has split.

 

[Ericloewe]

I try to keep as many disk shipping materials around as I can, in anticipation for situations like these. WD (through Amazon) ships drives neatly packed in individual cardboard boxes with plastic shock dampers and the obligatory static shield bags.

 

[iPlex]

If you're going home made, put the drives in anti-static bags: www.amazon.com/Bluecell-Antistatic-Resealable-Electronic-Device/dp/B00AMAXI5C/

FYI, Amazon have something for this: www.amazon.com/Gorilla-Drive-Box-Carrying-Resistant/dp/B007OXK0YM

They make actual sleeves for the purpose;

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002GWO8OY/?tag=ozlp-20

However, it seems likely that you might be better off going with something like 25GB M-Disc, see

http://www.mdisc.com/m-ready/

I realize that won't hold a 70GB file, but, y'know, UNIX has split.

I didn't think of the Anti-static bags!

On the pre-made box option, they're simply not cost effective.... What do they give me that my DIY box doesn't?

On the M-Disc note: They are simply to expensive. to store one sermon would be 3 25GB discs at $4.40 a disc that would cost $13.20. To get rid of the neccassary steps involved in File Splitting we would need to use 100 GB discs which are $20/ea. Though we could maybe use the DVD M-Discs for the DVD version but that's still $3 a week in Discs.....

 

[rogerh]

If you're anywhere tropical you may want sealed static shielded bags with some silica gel. The silica gel is much cheaper in bulk than little sachets. A kilogram or so will last a lifetime. But then if you were anywhere in a humid tropical zone you'd know everything gets mouldy.

 

[iPlex]

If you're anywhere tropical you may want sealed static shielded bags with some silica gel. The silica gel is much cheaper in bulk than little sachets. A kilogram or so will last a lifetime. But then if you were anywhere in a humid tropical zone you'd know everything gets mouldy.

Nope, not in a tropical climate.

 

[jgreco]

I didn't think of the Anti-static bags!

On the pre-made box option, they're simply not cost effective.... What do they give me that my DIY box doesn't?

On the M-Disc note: They are simply to expensive. to store one sermon would be 3 25GB discs at $4.40 a disc that would cost $13.20. To get rid of the neccassary steps involved in File Splitting we would need to use 100 GB discs which are $20/ea. Though we could maybe use the DVD M-Discs for the DVD version but that's still $3 a week in Discs.....

In qty 25, the M-Discs are $70 for 25 25GB, or in other words, $70 for 625 GB. A quality 1TB 2.5" drive is similar in price per GB but is more prone to fail and won't last decades.

 

[iPlex]

In qty 25, the M-Discs are $70 for 25 25GB, or in other words, $70 for 625 GB. A quality 1TB 2.5" drive is similar in price per GB but is more prone to fail and won't last decades.

From my last few hours of looking around on M-Disc I am starting to see the usefulness of it. What would be a good way to store them?

How long could I expect a HDD to last being stored in a normal household environment?

 

[jgreco]

From my last few hours of looking around on M-Disc I am starting to see the usefulness of it. What would be a good way to store them?

How long could I expect a HDD to last being stored in a normal household environment?

Well, that's the thing, anywhere from "dead tomorrow" to "good in twenty years".

The SATA interface might well be obsolete in five or ten years, as happened with IDE/ATA. IDE was invented around 1987, and hit its peak around 2000, before being superseded almost overnight by SATA in 2003 - that's 16 years. It is now 2016. SATA is showing to be long in tooth, at 13 years old. So one question you need to ask is, will you have access to a computer that can even attach a SATA disk in 10 years?

The compact disc format has proven somewhat more resilient. Since being introduced in 1982, the drives have continued to evolve to support new formats, but today's Blu Ray drives can still read a 1982 CD. That's no guarantee going forward, but it seems likely that there will continue to be readers for the foreseeable future.

The hard disk mechanism is basically a complex device that is fully self-contained, and if anything goes wrong with the mechanism, the data could be unretrievable. The disc is something that you can read with a laser, on whatever contemporary drive might exist. We hope.

Neither is a guarantee of success. However, I'd wager that the disc format is more likely to be something that can be coped with.

 

[iPlex]

Well, that's the thing, anywhere from "dead tomorrow" to "good in twenty years".

The SATA interface might well be obsolete in five or ten years, as happened with IDE/ATA. IDE was invented around 1987, and hit its peak around 2000, before being superseded almost overnight by SATA in 2003 - that's 16 years. It is now 2016. SATA is showing to be long in tooth, at 13 years old. So one question you need to ask is, will you have access to a computer that can even attach a SATA disk in 10 years?

The compact disc format has proven somewhat more resilient. Since being introduced in 1982, the drives have continued to evolve to support new formats, but today's Blu Ray drives can still read a 1982 CD. That's no guarantee going forward, but it seems likely that there will continue to be readers for the foreseeable future.

The hard disk mechanism is basically a complex device that is fully self-contained, and if anything goes wrong with the mechanism, the data could be unretrievable. The disc is something that you can read with a laser, on whatever contemporary drive might exist. We hope.

Neither is a guarantee of success. However, I'd wager that the disc format is more likely to be something that can be coped with.

I've never tried it myself but you can still get IDE to SATA adapters, can anyone say if this actually works? If the IDE to SATA works, I would assume that SATA to "Whatever Is Next" would work too.

I've been around other forums and people claim to be able to read discs they burnt back in the 80's - 90's, so I guess that point as been proven.

I looked on amazon at M-Discs and the reviews say that they have a high rate of write failure, can anyone here vouch for them?

 

[jgreco]

"Whatever is next" appears to be PCIe lanes from what I can tell. Which is hilarious, if you think about it. ATA was basically an extension of the AT bus out to a HDD with decode logic handled. Then we got into all this funky controller-in-the-middle stuff. Now we're angling back towards a direct bus connection with NVMe, etc.

As for the M-Discs, yes, I've heard that they're finicky, but I'd guess that you can cruise the "usual suspect" forums (videohelp.com, etc) for combinations that are known to work.

 

[iPlex]

"Whatever is next" appears to be PCIe lanes from what I can tell. Which is hilarious, if you think about it. ATA was basically an extension of the AT bus out to a HDD with decode logic handled. Then we got into all this funky controller-in-the-middle stuff. Now we're angling back towards a direct bus connection with NVMe, etc.

As for the M-Discs, yes, I've heard that they're finicky, but I'd guess that you can cruise the "usual suspect" forums (videohelp.com, etc) for combinations that are known to work.

I am not old enough to know about anything before SATA...... So I can only assume what you say is true! But does this move to NVMe type drives destroy the chance of SATA to "Whatever is Next"?

I'll certainly do more research into M-Discs.

But if I do still go with this Storage Crate idea what can I do to maximize the lifetime of the HDDs themselves and forget about the chance of the connector being obsolete? and what codec should the videos be in and also HDD Format? The idea is maximum capability between OSes and make it sorta Future proof.

 

[nightshade00013]

If you're anywhere tropical you may want sealed static shielded bags with some silica gel. The silica gel is much cheaper in bulk than little sachets. A kilogram or so will last a lifetime. But then if you were anywhere in a humid tropical zone you'd know everything gets mouldy.

Just a side note here, first off save the silica gel bags. You can put them in the oven on low heat and reuse them almost an infinite number of times. If you are wanting to pick some up and don't have the time to order and wait go to someplace that sells safes, Academy, Cabela's or Bass Pro Shops are all good options in the US possibly even walmart will have it in stock depending on your location and you can get containers of the dehumidifying/desiccant (aka silica gel) fairly cheap or extra large sachets.

 

[jgreco]

I am not old enough to know about anything before SATA...... So I can only assume what you say is true! But does this move to NVMe type drives destroy the chance of SATA to "Whatever is Next"?

Well, I'm old enough that I've got an 8" Fujitsu M2372K drive sitting in my office. Disassembled, as decoration.

So I can tell you this. Of the formats we used to use, I know that it's very impractical to read any MFM drives based on ST-506, any RLL drives based on ST-412, because those interfaces are tightly tied to the AT bus. It's very difficult to read data off an SMD or ESDI drive, because while SCSI translators are "available", they're very difficult to find. SCSI drives are becoming similarly difficult, though we still have a bunch of Adaptec 2940 and 29160's around, and some 10 year old PC's to toss them in, so getting data off those isn't that rough ... yet. But it probably will be in another ten years.

The question you're asking basically requires a crystal ball that I don't have. What I *do* have is the ability to look back and see what's happened to date. It shouldn't be that rough in ten years to find a machine that can handle SATA. But that's just one part of the equation. The other part is, how will a 2.5" HDD hold up? For those of us with fleets of older drives, we know from experience that they can seize up or let out the magic smoke.

But if I do still go with this Storage Crate idea what can I do to maximize the lifetime of the HDDs themselves and forget about the chance of the connector being obsolete? and what codec should the videos be in and also HDD Format? The idea is maximum capability between OSes and make it sorta Future proof.

If you're going to do this at all, it might be worth it to look into external USB drives. You get the same HDD's but usually a little cheaper, plus you get attachment capability in two different formats (USB on the outside, and you can disassemble to get at SATA on the inside). Getting a free clamshell that protects the drive is kind of a nice bonus.

 

[Ericloewe]

The greatest threat to SATA is a move towards flash storage on crapsumer devices.

When OEM start thinking "Hey, I don't need this 50 buck laptop HDD - a 25 buck eMMC drive is cheaper for me", that's when SATA will start suffering.

 

[gpsguy]

I've got a couple of these (though not Vantec) around the house. Not a pretty site, but helpful in a pinch.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000J01I1G/?tag=ozlp-20

 

[jgreco]

The greatest threat to SATA is a move towards flash storage on crapsumer devices.

When OEM start thinking "Hey, I don't need this 50 buck laptop HDD - a 25 buck eMMC drive is cheaper for me", that's when SATA will start suffering.

We're already kinda starting to see things that aren't that great... more laptops have fixed RAM configurations and M.2 slots, for example. I do think SATA's looking a little weary at this point, and when Intel figures out that they can cost-reduce the PCH by downsizing it or getting rid of it completely, and suddenly your average computer is just a CPU and a little stuff tied together by PCIe without all the intermediaries... uh, well...

 

[DaveY]

In case you haven't made a decision yet in the last 3 months, maybe give SD or MicroSD cards a try. You can get a 256GB and 512GB card for fairly cheap now. They are compact and easy to store. Light, portable, and no mechanical parts. Plus just about every desktop, laptop can read it

 

[anodos]

You could always pick up a used LTO5 tape drive off ebay. LTO5 and LTO6 support LTFS (which allows you to basically treat backup tapes like external hard drives). Each LTO5 tape can hold 1.5TB with compression off and up to 3TB with compression on, and you can pick up a 5-pack of tapes for around $150. Tapes have a pretty good shelf life.

I've seen too many SD cards randomly die or corrupt files. Can't recommend them.