WD sneaking SMR into Red disks

[garm]

Seagate hid their use of SMR quite a bit in the early days, I believe it was the ST8000DM004 which actually had the mention of SMR removed from its datasheet partway through its lifespan.

Then bleep everything ... what then? All flash?

 

[Zzyzx]

A resource that lists known SMR drives would be helpful

Synology's list is pretty decent.

 

[Johnnie Black]

Synology's list is pretty decent.

Unfortunately that's incomplete, it doesn't have any of Seagate's 3.5" models, it's also missing WD 3.5" SMR Blue and 2.5" SMR drives from WD and Toshiba

 

[Yorick]

Time to create a “known SMR drives” resource in this forum? Maybe @jgreco feels competent and motivated? I’m happy to create it, but out of competent and motivated, I only have the latter.

 

[jgreco]

Time to create a “known SMR drives” resource in this forum? Maybe @jgreco feels competent and motivated? I’m happy to create it, but out of competent and motivated, I only have the latter.

What makes me more competent than you? Feel free to do so. @Ericloewe is, I believe, the guy who would probably convert it from a post into a resource, so just start it out as a post. You probably want to organize it by manufacturer, maybe using the table or list feature. You'll need to check back in for replies now and then about new entries, and you'll probably have three categories, PMR, SMR, and suspected SMR. Bonus points if you link to posts or data sources that confirm. It's not *hard*, just a bit tedious.

 

[Johnnie Black]

These are the ones I know of, possibly forgetting a couple, feel free to put them on a list:

3.5" WD

WD20EFAX - 2TB Red
WD20EZAZ - 2TB Blue
WD60EFAX - 6TB Red
WD60EZAZ - 6TB Blue

3.5" Seagate

ST2000DM005 - 2TB Barracuda
ST2000DM008 - 2TB Barracuda
ST3000DM007 - 3TB Barracuda
ST4000DM004 - 4TB Barracuda
ST6000DM003 - 6TB Barracuda
ST8000DM004 - 8TB Barracuda

ST5000DM000 - 5TB Desktop

ST5000AS0011 - 5TB Archive
ST6000AS0002 - 6TB Archive v2
ST8000AS0002 - 8TB Archive v2

ST8000AS0003 - 8TB Exos (Archive v3)

3.5" HGST

There are a couple of models (14 and 15TB) but they are host managed SMR, not available to the general public.

3.5" Toshiba

None that I know of.

2.5" WD

WD10SPZX - 1TB Blue
WD20SPZX - 2TB Blue

2.5" Seagate

ST1000LM048 - 1TB Barracuda
ST2000LM015 - 2TB Barracuda
ST3000LM024 - 3TB Barracuda
ST4000LM024 - 4TB Barracuda
ST5000LM000 - 5TB Barracuda

2.5" Toshiba

HDWL110 - 1TB L200 Slim
HDWL120 - 2TB L200

There are also other external 2.5" large capabity external drives like the WD Passport that are SMR, but these are USB only, can't be shucked.

 

[cobrakiller58]

Then bleep everything ... what then? All flash?

lol DRAM-less ssd's? Basically it's a know what you want and do lots of research before you buy situation. If the manufacturer refuses to tell you what you want to know don't buy from them and if they lie to you, return it as it was falsely advertised. TRUST NO ONE!!!!!

 

[Yorick]

@Johnnie Black , I've used your list to create a new thread. If you have sources for the drives that aren't sourced in that table, please share!

Edit: I've sourced what I can. I've marked where I found documents contradicting your assertion, for a few Barracuda models, and where I couldn't find documentation that they are SMR, the two Toshibas.

List of known SMR drives

Hard drives that write data in overlapping, "shingled" tracks, have greater areal density than ones that do not. For cost and capacity reasons, manufacturers are increasingly moving to SMR, Shingled Magnetic Recording. SMR is a form of PMR (Perpendicular Magnetic Recording). The tracks are...

www.ixsystems.com

 

[Ericloewe]

Mod note:
I merged a thread that had been posted a few hours before this one into the one I started. A side-effect of that is that the thread may seem somewhat more schizophrenic than usual.

Please continue the WD Red discussion in this thread.

To discuss SMR disks in general, please use the following Resource's discussion thread:

List of known SMR drives

Hard drives that write data in overlapping, "shingled" tracks, have greater areal density than ones that do not. For cost and capacity reasons, manufacturers are increasingly moving to SMR, Shingled Magnetic Recording. SMR is a form of PMR...

www.ixsystems.com

 

[Yorick]

> somewhat more schizophrenic than usual

May his nooooodly appendages preserve us.

 

[Harrisonm65]

Might be of interest to some here.....

Western Digital shingled out in lawsuit for sneaking RAID-unfriendly tech into drives for RAID arrays

Probing by El Reg's Chris Mellor highlighted in class-action complaint

www.theregister.com

 

[Ericloewe]

Mod note: Merged the thread about the class-action lawsuit into this one.

 

[Harrisonm65]

WD Red HDD naming convention makes SMR choices clearer

WD Red drives will use SMR, but WD Red Plus and WD Red Pro SKUs will stick to CMR tech.

hexus.net

 

[Yorick]

Yup. Response so far appears widely to be that this will confuse consumers who had good experiences with WD Red before, and will just buy it again. "WD Brown" or even "WD Red Value" would have been a better choice, but here we are. WD Red is dead, long live WD Red Plus.

 

[Harrisonm65]

Yup. Response so far appears widely to be that this will confuse consumers who had good experiences with WD Red before, and will just buy it again. "WD Brown" or even "WD Red Value" would have been a better choice, but here we are. WD Red is dead, long live WD Red Plus.

Really looking forward to seeing the price differences

 

[sretalla]

"WD Brown"

An excellent suggestion with Tarantino references...

 

[Yorick]

An excellent suggestion with Tarantino references...

Not mine though, I just liked the idea. Seems several people might have had it simultaneously.

Maybe we can informally rebrand WD Red to WD Brown? :)

 

[Yorick]

Really looking forward to seeing the price differences

We'll know in August. WD is using weasel words.

>>
Update 5:08pm ET: Pricing
Ars asked a senior Western Digital executive about pricing on the new Red and Red Plus lines. The initial answer given was "in general, we expect WD Red drives will be priced below WD Red Plus drives." When asked to comment on how prices of the existing EFRX and EFAX models will shift in order to make Red less expensive than Red Plus, the only response was "I can only comment on the [preceding] at this time," followed by "WD Red Plus will be available in August time period."
>>

Western Digital adds “Red Plus” branding for non-SMR hard drives

Update: Western Digital responds to our pricing questions—sort of.

arstechnica.com

 

[Harrisonm65]

Ive taken screenshots of current pricing from one store of WD Red drives. No doubt WD will shaft us on pricing with their new range.

 

[Yorick]

I actually do doubt it. WD is competing with Seagate and Toshiba. When you look at WD Red, Ironwolf and N300, their Newegg sale price is right around 25 USD / TB for each, with maybe a hair more in the 8-12TB range. It’s only the 14TB drive that commands a premium.

Red Plus will still be competing with Ironwolf and N300, which means there isn’t room to increase the price noticeably without driving customers to the competition.

There is room to undercut Ironwolf and N300 with “Red” (SMR) by maybe 5 per TB or so, and try and capture some extra market share that way.

All idle speculation of course: We will know in August.