Virtualize within Freenas? OR Virtualize with another platform?

Rhino81

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May 24, 2019
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Hello all! First post but long LONG time user of the project (before NAS4Free fork).
Sorry if this is a duplicate somewhere... I couldn't find anyone asking about the VM stability and best practices.

I absolutely love FreeNAS and I have come to rely upon it for my business. In fact it's such a great product I have suggested it overwhelmingly over any other product available both for the abilities of the platform and for ZFS stability. Hardware in-proprietary compatibility is awesome with FreeNAS and we live in the boonies, so getting replacement parts is difficult.

Since 9.10, I've been tempted to play with the VM features WITHIN FreeNAS but have chosen to not utilize them for any of my clients. I ran a basic Windows 10 box inside my box for testing and it works awesome. But now I have an actual use case in production that the VM functions would work great for (so I think). I'm looking for opinion as well as suggestion based on the info provided below.

The office is a Dental office. They currently run XRAYs to a freenas box over iSCSI from their single Windows server. The Freenas also runs backups of the server and the patient data base, all of which is encrypted. They have an additional office which the Freenas syncs to off site over a VPN tunnel. The server is dying and we are looking to move to Server 2019 anyway as 2008 support ends January. ZFS snapshots are a must since ransomware is a huge concern and it means major downtime if infected otherwise, so FreeNAS is my go to choice for both data and VM support.

My Questions are:

Would you trust a VM Windows Server 2019 within the Freenas environment? If not, why and what would you recommend (ProxMox, XENserver)?
What topology would be best for this? Freenas is currently on domain and has an AD user. Virtualized, would this cause issues?
Would it be better to install Windows Server and then VM Freenas (I hate this idea, but have to ask)?

The Goal:

Get down to only two boxes, eliminating 2 others and making it so updates can be done off hours (currently has a login for encryption at boot for Win Server).
Use processor power and storage better to eliminate network bottlenecks as best as we can from workstation to server relationship.
Have backups and security using Snapshots as well as backing up to our old FreeNAS and then Sync offsite to sister office FreeNAS.

Hardware specs for new server:
Dell T440, single processor 8 core, 32gb DDR4 ECC, the 710 card it comes flashed to IT mode
10gb Chesio card to Cisco switch for Data/VM
1gb link for board managment
2x Intel SSD drives with PLP (not sure on model yet) for ZIL (Mirror)
4x 4TB Enterprise 7200k drives in ZFS Raid2 (8TB is Plenty of space for XRAYs and Patient data).

Use old FreeNAS as backup for the server (Lenovo T140s)

I want to hit this out of the park and plan on doing both dental offices over the summer. Any advice is much appreciated.

Ryan
 
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Chris Moore

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Is the reason for virtualization an attempt to get down to one physical box? because you're using Windows for your domain server I would think that it needs to be a separate machine or you could virtualize both FreeNAS and the domain server inside something like ESXi
 

Rhino81

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May 24, 2019
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It is the main goal. There are a lot of boxes to maintain and it makes troubleshooting over the phone when they have issues difficult. But besides that, want to just clean everything up and make it simpler overall.

Since my Windows host is going to be the DC and AD, it would probably make most sense to make it as reachable as possible by doing as you suggested, running ESXi, ProxMox or XEN on the bare hardware. Would that be best practice?
 

Chris Moore

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Would that be best practice?
Gnerally, FreeNAS in a virtual machine is not recommended, but it is doable if you follow some guidance.

There have been some people that tried other methods of virtualization with FreeNAS, but you need to be able to pass the drive controller through to the VM for FreeNAS so that FreeNAS still has full control of the drives. The most success with that has been using ESXi and a SAS HBA. Here are some very good readings to help you get familiar with that, including one very detailed build report:

"Absolutely must virtualize FreeNAS!" ... a guide to not completely losing your data.
https://www.ixsystems.com/community...ide-to-not-completely-losing-your-data.12714/

Virtually FreeNAS ... an alternative for those seeking virtualization
https://www.ixsystems.com/community...ative-for-those-seeking-virtualization.26095/

FreeNAS 9.10 on VMware ESXi 6.0 Guide
https://b3n.org/freenas-9-3-on-vmware-esxi-6-0-guide/

The ZFS ZIL and SLOG Demystified
http://www.freenas.org/blog/zfs-zil-and-slog-demystified/

Some insights into SLOG/ZIL with ZFS on FreeNAS
https://www.ixsystems.com/community/threads/some-insights-into-slog-zil-with-zfs-on-freenas.13633/

Testing the benefits of SLOG using a RAM disk!
https://www.ixsystems.com/community/threads/testing-the-benefits-of-slog-using-a-ram-disk.56561/

SLOG benchmarking and finding the best SLOG
https://www.ixsystems.com/community/threads/slog-benchmarking-and-finding-the-best-slog.63521/

All In One below virtualizes FreeNAS and several other systems inside. Lots of great details.

Build Report: Node 304 + X10SDV-TLN4F [ESXi/FreeNAS AIO]
https://www.ixsystems.com/community...node-304-x10sdv-tln4f-esxi-freenas-aio.57116/
 
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John Doe

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Aug 16, 2011
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I have also freenas on ESXI 6.7 and it is running well. Followed the posted guideline above: "FreeNAS 9.10 on VMware ESXi 6.0 Guide"
I skipped ZIL/SLOG because I am using SSDs for VMs and for my purpose it would be an overkill. Windows is running as VM on ESXi and via remote desktop I can not feel a big performance impact.
 

Rhino81

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May 24, 2019
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Thanks Chris for that awesome response! Pretty much everything anyone would ever want to know with virtualization!

John Doe: do you have the SSD drives setup on the FreeNAS side for ZFS snapshots? I have two PLP SSDs to order for a ZIL but could use these as the host drives for VM. Are they in ESXi Raid or as a pool in FreeNAS? I would imagine it would be benificial to have them in a ZPool for ZFS but curious if standard raid was used for some reason.
 

John Doe

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2 SSDs are mirrored as freenas pool and passed back to esxi as nfs storage. like mentioned in that tutorial from b3n.org
 

drinking12many

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Apr 8, 2012
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I would agree with Chris here its probably the best way to do it if your going to do it. I run one DC on my house Freenas (2016 Core) so I can turn off all my Dell servers when I dont need them and still have AD/DNS, but it only works cause I dont care if its buggy on occasion. I have another DC that runs in my VMware farm when they are running for redundancy/replication (among about 20 others) I have never played with doing passthrough as your suggesting but If I was doing it for a client it sounds like a fairly solid plan long as you set your first two servers to boot as the DC and Freenas depending on where the DC is sitting on storage.
 

Rhino81

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May 24, 2019
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That’s what my concern was. The DC being lost at FreeNAS boot would cause DNS issues and is like an upside-down pyramid design. But I figured I would ask opinions, and I got some great ones. I’m going to follow the guide to pass through the drives to FreeNAS from ESXi or XEN or the like. And I’ll follow this guide for the Dell adapter to get it in HBA mode and use MrSAS driver to incorporate the pass through. Unless this is no longer needed. The guide is for 9.10.1 which is years old now.

https://www.ixsystems.com/community...dell-servers-with-perc-h730-controller.46631/

Thanks for all the advise! And for keeping it professional!
 
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