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Starting our next Open Source Project - TrueNAS SCALE

Western Digital Drives - The Preferred Drives of FreeNAS and TrueNAS CORE

Kris Moore

VP of Engineering
Administrator
Moderator
iXsystems
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
326
Hello TrueNAS and FreeNAS Community,

As many of you are aware, TrueNAS 12.0 BETA is soon to be released. It unifies FreeNAS and TrueNAS into a single image and will make maintaining and documenting these releases significantly more efficient. The early testing and reviews have gone very well and it’s exciting to see the upcoming OpenZFS 2.0 perform as well as it does. We’re confident that you’ll like TrueNAS CORE when you try it out.

With the bulk of the TrueNAS 12.0 development work starting to wind down, we wanted to take some time to confirm the rumors of some new work that has been occurring behind the scenes in the iX development labs. As some clever GitHub code-watchers have already noticed, we’ve been hard at work on a new project called TrueNAS SCALE. This is an ambitious new Open Source initiative allowing us to take some big new steps forward in software-defined infrastructure capabilities.

SCALE is an exciting new addition to the TrueNAS software family. It uses much of the same TrueNAS 12.0 source code, but adds a few different twists.

For those eager to know more about the the goals of the SCALE project, they are defined by this acronym:

Scale-out
Converged
Active-active
Linux containers
Easy-to-manage

Since many in our community have already noticed and been speculating for a while, I’ll confirm now that SCALE is based upon Linux. Debian 11 (Bullseye) is currently being used as the platform for this new project. Linux is a key requirement to achieve some of the SCALE project goals. The ability to run OpenZFS 2.0 across both FreeBSD and Linux provides the TrueNAS family with the software diversity to service a wide variety of user infrastructure needs.

We’re pleased to let developers know that the source code for TrueNAS SCALE is already available on GitHub and under very active development. Over the next quarter, we will give you more detailed information about the architecture, download links to the installation images, and more details on how to get involved for collaboration. We’re currently hard at work finishing up some of the base functionality on a very early developer preview image. This nightly image will allow community developers and early technical preview audiences to kick the tires and get more involved in the early development stages of this new product. SCALE will be a development project for the remainder of 2020 with a planned release in 2021.

We are starting a new discussion group for project SCALE as well. If you or your organization are keen to contribute to a project with these goals, then please follow and comment in the discussion group and we’ll keep you in the loop.

It’s important to note that the SCALE project doesn’t change the plans for the continued support and development of TrueNAS CORE and TrueNAS Enterprise on FreeBSD. The full suite of software will be very complementary to each other. Much of the software base will be common and all of them will support being fully managed via TrueCommand.
 

xoxled

Newbie
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
2
These are very exciting news, I awaited these for different reasons (other hypervisor than bhyve, closer to the ZFS development train, much stronger development resources on linux than FreeBSD in general, ...).

I understand this is in early development, but I wanted to raise one question concerning the forementioned linux containers: much of development generally seems to be done in Docker containers, I see even your TrueCommand now being deployed this way. Will the plugin infrastructure "still" be based on native linux containers (as the direct equivalent to the FreeBSD jails), or wouldn't it make sense to move to a docker based infrastructure?

With FreeBSD this necessarily means virtuallization (for running the necessary linux kernel) wih all its overhead, so I see the sense in providing custom jail-based plugins there. But since SCALE is supposed to run Linux directly, to my mind an docker based approach would make a lot of sense.

What I mean to point out weren't differences between container technologies in linux alike LXC vs OpenVZ, but the huge docker infrastructure concerning readily employable docker containers, many of which are even maintained by the software developers themselves.

Again, thank you very much!

[Moderator note: edited for readability and easier replies -JG]
 
Last edited by a moderator:

eshutah

Neophyte
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
4
Newbie or Not Newbie?

I like where FreeNAS is headed. What you are working on has a lot of appeal.

BUT...there is always a but.....

I am fairly new to FreeNAS, and fairly rusty with UNIX/Linux. I use Google search quite a bit to figure out how to get things done. It has taken many hours to learn what search hits to assimilate and which ones to ignore. This update will potentially complicate this process even further.

"Linux feature Vs. BSD feature? Wait - the syntax for this command is different in BSD vs. Linux, but these other 99.9% are the same. Fun! Bhyve???? Why am I suddenly seeing search responses with Bhyve? What the hell is that? Is it actually relevant to what I want to know, and how do I find out without spending an hour reading? Is this feature/implementation older or current? The commands to use Docker are not responding. Wait - this post says Docker is broken. Oh - dated 1015, never mind. This post says Docker is removed. No problem - I'll check out this RancherOS documentation. I'll start learning about that! Oops...not used anymore."

I think you get what I'm trying to say. Google search will at times helpfully bring up an older version of the online help that tells me what I want to hear, not what is currently supported. There is a bewildering amount of (now) misleading information out there. If nothing else, once you bring Docker back some of use will be trying to use the old instructions because Google sez so.

Yes, I know how to set google to only return results from a given time period. Not all questions are answered in posts from the last year or in the official pop-up help. I have used Unix/Linux off and on for 30 years, but as a developer not an administrator. Sometimes I think I know things when I really don't, like file protection. So I'm searching for answers to questions from the total noob to advanced system administrator level, and it gets confusing.

I don't really have a precise or succinct comment. There is a bewildering array of subsystems past and present that require expertise to use or at least awareness to not shoot yourself in the foot. Perhaps a new name for MAJOR reconfigurations to make searching easier from now on? Something like "FreeNAS-X20"?

There is one feature in particular - the "back" button on the upper left of the screen, next to the "FreeNAS" logo. I use it constantly. all. the. freakin'. day. Of course, it is actually a "hide menu" button, but it sure looks like a back button!
 

to_pir8

Newbie
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
1
Is the requirement for 16GB of memory for Truenas Scale a hard-set requirement?
 

nti

Newbie
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
2
What about your support for FreeBSD? I think you are the biggest sponsor of the FreeBSD project and have a few of the best FreeBSD developer on your payroll. I'm not happy ...
 

danb35

Wizened Sage
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
11,487
I'm not happy
Why do you assume that developing a project that runs under Linux will diminish iX' support for FreeBSD? And why did you join the forum just to complain about this, when you don't even understand what's going on?
 

Ericloewe

Not-very-passive-but-aggressive
Moderator
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
16,719
I mean, people complain about the FreeBSD base, people would complain about a Linux base, and people complain about having both.

Let's all not get into doomsday discussions prematurely.
 

Kris Moore

VP of Engineering
Administrator
Moderator
iXsystems
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
326
I mean, people complain about the FreeBSD base, people would complain about a Linux base, and people complain about having both.

Let's all not get into doomsday discussions prematurely.
Lots of truth to that! This isn't so much about reducing support for anything, rather we've just added new options for our users to have choices as to what best fits into their environment.
 

nti

Newbie
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
2
Why do you assume that developing a project that runs under Linux will diminish iX' support for FreeBSD? And why did you join the forum just to complain about this, when you don't even understand what's going on?
And why are you so unfriendly? I'm using FreeBSD for about 30years and have a few FreeNAS server running. And if it would be possible 2 years ago to buy TrueNAS in Germany we would do it. But it wasn't, and now we have Open-E Jovian DSS (ZFS ) running. Build on Linux and it's not what I like. Linux is chaos and I don't like chaos. Linux is developed from a crazy Guru and I don't like crazy and patriarch and populist Gurus. So I'm on fear FreeBSD is dying before me. Too much things are not possible any more, that are nice boosters. Im not speaking from docker. But Nextcloud 19 Hub with online office: No go. Zammad in version >3: no go. and much more great services. Because developers have decide not to support FreeBSD anymore. And why? because of time and money and because flies **** on the biggest pile.
 

Tigersharke

BOfH in User's clothing
Administrator
Moderator
Joined
May 18, 2016
Messages
596
And why are you so unfriendly? I'm using FreeBSD for about 30years and have a few FreeNAS server running. And if it would be possible 2 years ago to buy TrueNAS in Germany we would do it. But it wasn't, and now we have Open-E Jovian DSS (ZFS ) running. Build on Linux and it's not what I like. Linux is chaos and I don't like chaos. Linux is developed from a crazy Guru and I don't like crazy and patriarch and populist Gurus. So I'm on fear FreeBSD is dying before me. Too much things are not possible any more, that are nice boosters. Im not speaking from docker. But Nextcloud 19 Hub with online office: No go. Zammad in version >3: no go. and much more great services. Because developers have decide not to support FreeBSD anymore. And why? because of time and money and because flies **** on the biggest pile.
I understand the fear and especially with the examples given. I have also been in a situation of ever diminishing support (Apple IIgs owner from 1988) from the corporation which started the tech I used. He might not know the whole story but that may not quell the nervousness that experience has caused. I personally have no need of SCALE which seems to be what drives the Linux part of this, but I would hope that over time the technology necessary for wholly native FreeBSD support/version would get developed. Such development need not be done solely by iX Systems, we do have numerous developers around the world, some very skilled. It may be the same (or similar) issue as with "FreeBSD on the Desktop" which too often is claimed cannot be done, but also, for that as well, a large part of the issue is still that FreeBSD draws much from Linux with regard to support software, all those things in ports and pkgs. I would wish for this to change too, though I am only a voice and not a coder.
 

Ericloewe

Not-very-passive-but-aggressive
Moderator
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Feb 15, 2014
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16,719
Let's be honest, metaphorically jumping at a company's throat because they dared offer wider support does not make for a healthy community. If you want better FreeBSD support, as most here do, don't give people reason to think they might as well put up with the Linux kernel team. In other words, be nice about it.
 

danb35

Wizened Sage
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
11,487
And why are you so unfriendly?
Because you're making unwarranted assumptions that have repeatedly been repudiated by iX personnel, and you joined the forum just to complain about those unwarranted assumptions without bothering to read any of the information on this very forum that directly contradicts them. Why are you so unfriendly?
 

flingwing

Neophyte
Joined
Feb 26, 2020
Messages
4
I am really excited about this announcement. I've got a tried and true server rig (running freenas) but it has been unable to use Bhyve and virtualize any linux VM's because of some limitations at the hardware level. This has limited the expandability of my server to take on additional duties such as ad blocking and the like. Moving to a linux kernel I think will really allow me to SCALE!
 

clausdk

Junior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
12
This is amazing! Now all we need is PFsense ported to TrueNAS and we have the perfect small business solution :cool:
Btw just tested the dev version and it really seems really nice. Also I noticed that some of my old nics started working since its running on Debian. I love FreeBSD, but it has its limitations - both when it comes to CPU support, NICS etc.
 

Kris Moore

VP of Engineering
Administrator
Moderator
iXsystems
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Nov 12, 2015
Messages
326
This is amazing! Now all we need is PFsense ported to TrueNAS and we have the perfect small business solution :cool:
Btw just tested the dev version and it really seems really nice. Also I noticed that some of my old nics started working since its running on Debian. I love FreeBSD, but it has its limitations - both when it comes to CPU support, NICS etc.
Thanks for trying it out! Yea, one nice side-benefit of the Linux / Debian base is greatly expanded driver compatibility.
 

Patrick M. Hausen

Dedicated Sage
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
1,679
This is amazing! Now all we need is PFsense ported to TrueNAS and we have the perfect small business solution :cool:
What's keeping you from running pfSense in a VM to get your all-in-one SMB server?
 

clausdk

Junior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
12
Thanks for trying it out! Yea, one nice side-benefit of the Linux / Debian base is greatly expanded driver compatibility.
Yeah, I'm amazed how far you've come already with the porting of middlewared to Debian. And not to mention whole boot environment.

Only a few bugs I've noticed like this:

WaK9sCW.png

I guess that's the old part from FreeBSD.

Also can't wait to see how you will implement clustering in Debian version of TrueNAS. That's pretty exciting.
 
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