Register for the iXsystems Community to get an ad-free experience and exclusive discounts in our eBay Store.

Project-Trident Train Changes --- IMPORTANT read

Rod Myers

FreeNAS Experienced
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
192
my bad, misread your comment.

We have NO idea what trueos plans on doing. As far as I know, trueos will continue
 

groenveld

FreeNAS Experienced
Joined
May 10, 2019
Messages
181
I suppose after Trident's repositories become deleted there is a way to go on with TrueOS's repositories.
Right?
The TrueOS repo doesn't support sysup and the Trident sysup GUI, but possibly you can modify pkg.conf(5) to point to TrueOS for the os-* and other packages.
Let us know.
John
groenveld@acm.org
 

SneakyBart

Newbie
Joined
Jun 26, 2019
Messages
25
ok, by now (sorry for my very-short-term view) I'd like to learn if next update after 19-10 will automatically be handled by the Update Manager as it is now, or should the user perform some changes manually, and in case will find clear instruction about it.
Tnx
There is no update after 19-10. That release is now deprecated. Stable release is the only one supported, now. Currently at 12-U9. Heck, I can't even get 19-08 to update properly to 19-10. So I've archived it, never to be seen again. But, yeah. If you try to do an update on 19-10, you'll see a message that it's been deprecated, and please switch to Stable.

(Edit: Also, I hope it's okay if we happen to mention FreeBSD, here. I got slapped-down in the FreeBSD Forums for mentioning Trident. Oops. Guess they mad that people were furthering their work.)
 

mauror

Newbie
Joined
May 11, 2019
Messages
55
There is no update after 19-10. That release is now deprecated. Stable release is the only one supported, now. Currently at 12-U9. Heck, I can't even get 19-08 to update properly to 19-10. So I've archived it, never to be seen again. But, yeah. If you try to do an update on 19-10, you'll see a message that it's been deprecated, and please switch to Stable.

well, I've just upgraded to 19.10 and did not see any message about its deprecation, but maybe it was not so clearly stated and I haven't noticed it. Will see. I'm maintaining a 12.09 stable meantime, it is on another usb stick volume. I'm using the bootable usb stick system installation to be free to keep any system I want separately, without messing inside my HD.
 

Rod Myers

FreeNAS Experienced
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
192
well, I've just upgraded to 19.10 and did not see any message about its deprecation, but maybe it was not so clearly stated and I haven't noticed it. Will see. I'm maintaining a 12.09 stable meantime, it is on another usb stick volume. I'm using the bootable usb stick system installation to be free to keep any system I want separately, without messing inside my HD.
If you all would take a moment and look at the new messages everything was posted for everyone to read
 

bsdisgood

Newbie
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
39
Well, this is too bad. I'm not going back to Linux and loose the up to date ZFS on root. There is a difference between the present ZFS and the Linux version which I don't want to have to deal with. The main reason for my switch was to get away from the immature project management that resulted in things such as systemd and other poorly chosen changes, and above all I want ZFS and boot environments. Granted I'm not seeing the issues Trident dev's are seeing, but I saw too many newbee management decisions resulting in my lost faith in Linux to be the stable environment I want. FreeBSD appeared to be that for me with an older more experienced group and then the TrueOS work was attractive to me. Plus being less mainstream there are less attacks here than on Linux.
 

j77h

FreeNAS Aware
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
39
to get away from the immature project management ... and above all I want [root] ZFS and boot environments
That's why I'm here too. :)
Although I'm not so keen to say that management is immature, with Manjaro (which I currently use) the pace of change is too fast for me.
Before that I was on Xubuntu LTS for 6 years; after 3 years I wanted to upgrade to the next LTS, but upgrading in place didn't work and I had to start from scratch again. So the second time, I switched to Manjaro for rolling release.
What I have not found is a rolling release system that's really stable, where the updates never break anything, and they don't come too often.
Maybe using FreeBSD's point releases would fit that description? Haven't studied them enough to be sure.
 

bsdisgood

Newbie
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
39
I call it immature as in not having a good enough experience to tell when you are barking up the wrong tree, as I feel systemd being a good example of. Not saying nobody should go there, but from my perspective it breaks the basic principle of the Unix design. Simplicity is better than complexity, just look at Bill Gates and Windows. Early on he was impressed with Unix but set out to make a better O/S but made the newbee error of making it complex. When you look at the complexity of the system calls cris crossing you can see one reason it had the performance issues it had. (No idea what is going on these days.) Did not help his kernel was in a custom version of Basic that only he understood.

My main needs are reliability & data integrity. My servers are running SmartOS (a version of OpenSolaris with native ZFS). Faster than anything out there with the amazing features from those god like dev's of Sun Microsystems fame.
It is basically a virtual server environment for cloud computing so not really suitable as a desktop.

TrueOS caught my eye and it came with native ZFS, BE was a great surprise. When Plasma was made available for it I had everything I needed for my workstation. Now i will be looking for something else as I refuse to go backwards.

I loosely call it backwards because it lacks native ZFS etc. Having lost faith in that community to not end up someplace one day where I'm would end up dealing with reliability and data issues only because poor project management. (I know I'm being harsh and maybe unfair etc.) But I've followed Linux since the 90's and the beginning of Fedora where you could not even do upgrades but had to reinstall the new version. Things continuously improved. But in the last few years I simply had the notion it was turning in the wrong direction, enough that I chose not to invest my future in it. I'm saying project management as that is who would approve new directions. Forcing changes on users because you think they must have this new thing you made is a fatal flaw. You cannot sit and say nobody will have a need for (fill in the blank).

Word 2.0 or some such version, when upgrading from the previous version it did not support the previous version of the doc format. You upgraded and could not access your files. It was simply decided nobody should use it. Fatal error. Then KDE had similar issues with some of their background data processing with Akonadi et al. Then we had NetworkManager suddenly show up which screwed up my network for years and did not ask me if I wanted to use it, which I did not. The user should have the choice of deciding to be a guinea pig and not the project manager.

Enough of my soap box, I just wanted to share why I so happily switched to FreeBSD/TrueOS and stayed on with Trident.

Of course I don't HAVE TO use free software I could pay for it, but for the fact the OpenSource s/w gives me a higher expectation of proper fixes and hope that a bug will be handled in reasonable time. Haha, at least most of the time! With Windows I never knew if something would remain broken, get fixed or break something else with each release. Now I'm dependent on it, as is so many others. And I'm really greatful for all the hard work being put into it!
 

mauror

Newbie
Joined
May 11, 2019
Messages
55
Trueos before and Project Trident after, have represented a way to get in touch with BSD and ZFS for people looking for a better friendly interface to get there, I'm talking on my case.
Ok, many things did not work soon, but could solve most of the issues with the precious help received first on Discourse forum and then here, just like it works for other systems communities.
I understand that nothing is unchangeable, but Trueos/Trident are till now the first choice alternative to Linux because they're really something else, and now this is going to end.
I do not see this change as an improvement for a user, who after all can already choose among the many existing Linux distributions: if I like Void Linux I use Void Linux itself, fullstop.
 

bsdisgood

Newbie
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
39
Before this saga is over for me I want to thank all those who have been helping us! You've certainly made my life more pleasant and productive and for that I'm really grateful! Some of us probably tested your willingness in answering dumb questions but you hung in there and made it possible for me to move forward. The developers have done a huge job pulling this together and went against the grain* to make FreeBSD a more pleasant experience through a greatly improved installer and build with nice features that really wow'd me! (I've been bragging to Linux users about my TrueOS/Trident system and it's core features.) :)

I would have had to suffer through the ignorance so popular in some FreeBSD forums about how to attract new users. With that I'm referring to having a workable GUI that makes it a productive environment from the get go, from which one can investigate further on one's own gradient. Not as a build from scratch project on the side that might become relevant if and when all barriers are eventually overcome to be able to be productive. I truly love what I have, with all the little warts, because I have a stable and reliable system where I know I have the most reliable file system available and one of the most stable O/S's to boot!

From my ignorant viewpoint it looks like the dev's here have their hearts in the right place, certainly have had their suffering to get us to this point and I'm sure it's not been easy, to say the least. I can also imagine they must have been really frustrated to decide to use a Linux distro to forward their quest. So before we go separate ways I want to thank you as well for a long and at least for me, a very fruitful adventure that I'm very happy to have been part of. I'm a better FreeBSD user because of your work! I sincerely wish you all the best!

* Reading some forums, some people sincerely believe that one needs to suffer through the unknown and often confusing volume mix of current and out of date documentation to eventually arrive at something that can be a productive environment. Many (most?) people don't have multiple computers, or room for separate systems, and time to fiddle with new O/S's. Getting up and running IS important so that one can earn time to tinker. I doubt I would be such an avid fan of FreeBSD had it not been for the dev's.
 

Rod Myers

FreeNAS Experienced
Joined
Feb 9, 2015
Messages
192
Let me say here. This move is a difficult one.

The good news: we will have ZFS on root. More frequent updates, and better hardware support

The NOT so good news. it will require a fresh install. ZoL has some newer features, and does not have a few the FreeBSD/Trueos has. At the moment of this writing, NO boot environments, though that is being worked on
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2019
Messages
7
Has anyone investigated one of the current Solaris derivatives (SmartOS, IllumOS) as an actual Unix replacement for FreeBSD?
 

bsdisgood

Newbie
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
39
I'm currently using SmartOS on my servers. It is designed to be a cloud server and as such not suitable for desktop use but is by far the most efficient hypervisor design.

** Edit: Does not mean anyone of the other OpenSolaris based could not be a good desktop. Just commenting on SmartOS. OpenIndiana, for example, supports workstations and I understand can run Linux apps. Though I've never tried. There are several derivatives. Not a bad idea to follow up on!

Looking into OpenIndiana I found this discussion from early 2019:
https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/a4f42y/is_kde_plasma_5_compatible_with_solaris_11/

It basically says that Mate is the maintained GUI and no 2nd one. They appear very willing to offer help.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 19, 2019
Messages
7
Here is the website of OpenIndiana if anyone cares to look.
https://www.openindiana.org/
It appears to be a rolling distro!
And I seem to recall that openSolaris had a cool thing called Time Slider to roll it back to earlier dates. Of course it has ZFS too!
 

bsdisgood

Newbie
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
39
Yeah, snapshots. And boot environments (BE). Don't like the latest updates, reboot into the previous environment.
 

groenveld

FreeNAS Experienced
Joined
May 10, 2019
Messages
181
** Edit: Does not mean anyone of the other OpenSolaris based could not be a good desktop. Just commenting on SmartOS. OpenIndiana, for example, supports workstations and I understand can run Linux apps. Though I've never tried. There are several derivatives. Not a bad idea to follow up on!
The *BSDs have more stationary and mobile workstation hardware support than OI and Illumos.
John
groenveld@acm.org
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2019
Messages
7
After looking into OpenIndiana, it appears that illumos is the core of OI and several other distros as well. illumos seems to have a lot of people and companies helping out. We could possibly use illumos as the core and have control over or own distro if that is what we preferred.
Here is the website if anyone wants a look at illumos.
https://illumos.org/
@John groenveld
Maybe the drivers from BSD could be ported over to illumos?
 
Top