FreeNAS vs OMV. For Small Business (45usr). Backups only. 4TB RAID, ZFS RAM and other queries.

[Ramon Sanchez]

Hi all.

New on this forum and new into Freenas. (I previously worked with Drobo).

After days and days of fighting with the IT corporate dept at my job, asking for help and receiving simply nothing, I decided to act on my own and bought 2x4TB Western Digital discs.

My playground is a network formed by 45 computers running Windows 7-8.1, and a Proliant ML1010G6 Server with WinSrv 2008 R2. Xeon X3430@2.40GHz, 16GB of ECC RAM, and 4x1TB HDD in a hardware RAID (wich i don´t know).

I was planning to install my two new HDD´s in the server but got nice surprises: 1.- There were no more physical space. 2.- The motherboard gets crazy whith HDD´s of more than 2TB. - I did not installed the hard disks, i just read the manual and some webs-

So I started looking for a decent NAS box but found that the good ones were really expensive -just for the box- and the cheap ones had rrrreally low specs.

Discovered that I could get more with -almost- the same money so I started reading about custom NAS boxes and hardware recommendations for Freenas and got to the following: -If it fits Freenas, it fits for any other NAS software haha-

Motherboard: Supermicro MBD-X10SLL-S
Processor: Dual Core G3260 @ 3.3GHz, 3MB Cache. LGA1150
RAM: 1x Kingston kvr16e11s8/4. (DDR3, 4GB, 1600MHz, ECC, Unbuffered.
Storage: 2x4 TB Western Digital Datacenter storage. - WD4000F9YZ - I want a mirrored RAID.
Power Supply: Still looking for a Corsair 400-450w psu.
Case: Still looking for a case but Aerocool QS 202 and Coolermaster CPM350 are on my mind.

I ONLY want this build for backups. No virtualization, no video streaming, no special plugins, no AD integration, no shared folders where users are constantly reading/writing info. Just the backups, which will be made weekly or maybe each 15 days.

Mi questions are:

1.- Is this build enough for FreeNAS?
2.- Is a 400w power supply enough? Is it too much?
3.- I know that running ZFS requires 1GB of ram per each TB of storage. Are 4GB of RAM enough? (remember, there are 2x4TB but will be mirrored.)
4.- Is it really worth to run ZFS when you have ECC memory and processor? (Yes, i already know about the importance of ECC RAM and how useless is ZFS without ECC RAM).
5.- Is it ok to run FreeNAS or would i be ok with OpenMediaVault, Nas4Free, or even Fedora with SMB? (I know they do not have ZFS, but not worried since i have ECC RAM)

I consider that it is a "low use" NAS but not sure, so i ask for your help.

Thanks in advance!

 

[m0nkey_]

Double the RAM to 8GB and you're done. FreeNAS likes RAM, 8GB is the recommended minimum.

 

[Ericloewe]

Bare minimum is closer to the truth

Motherboard: Supermicro MBD-X10SLL-S

You really should try to get an X10SLL-F instead. The -S model is extremely crippled.

 

[Arwen]

Agree with both prior comments.

I'd also say that using ZFS has additional benefits, independant of data reliability. For example,
using snapshots can give you the equivalent of incremental backups. You create a ZFS dataset,
(aka filesystem), for each client. Then perform a full backup like with Rsync. Snapshot it with
that day's date. Next backup of same client, add "--delete" and snapshot again. Keeps the data
usage down.

Note that some distros of Linux do support ZFS. I run Gentoo which has good support for ZFS.
It's used on both my miniture and low power media server, and my desktop.

 

[Ramon Sanchez]

I see a little bit hard to double the ram. The money is not mine and my boss is trying to keep it "cheap". (But i will try).
What if i keep the ram in 4GB (or even 6GB) withouth ZFS and snapshots?
What aboout the 400w psu? Is it enough? Os is it too much?
What about going OMV, NAS4Free or Fedora instead of Freenas? Keeping in mind that i need to backup 45 users, so it´s not a "home use" NAS.

@Arwen ... I was planning to run my backups with "YadisBackup".
What Yadis does is something like Dropbox: If you modify a file, it is modified in the backup directory; if you rename a file, it is renamed in the backup directory; if you create a folder, it is created in the backup directory... But If you delete a folder / file, you can choose if Yadis will delete it in the backup directory too, or not.... So it is like a "sync" more than a "backup".

The problem is that you cannot use the file while Yadis is working on it. This is not really a problem with small files, but in files that are up to 100MB, or 10GB, or more, (like PST files) this is a huge problem... You have to wait for Yadis to finish the backup of your PST File in order to use MS Outlook.
So, now i am thinking about using Cobian Backup. Its VolumeShadowCopy does the job: You can still work in the file while Cobian is making the backup "at the same time". The problem here is that Cobian does not make a "Sync"
like task... It just does a backup.

Is RSync able to do what i need?

 

[Dice]

What if i keep the ram in 4GB (or even 6GB) withouth ZFS and snapshots?

8Gb is an absolute minimum. It applies to you, your boss, everyone, regardless of ............

I would not consider getting less than 16GB.

 

[m0nkey_]

The money is not mine and my boss is trying to keep it "cheap". (But i will try)

Your boss clearly doesn't understand. FreeNAS is not for their business. Suggest you look elsewhere for a cheap solution.

 

[Arwen]

I see a little bit hard to double the ram. The money is not mine and my boss is trying to keep it "cheap". (But i will try).
What if i keep the ram in 4GB (or even 6GB) withouth ZFS and snapshots?

There have been situations where someone is reporting irregular performance, or even un-explainable crashes
when using less than the 8GB of memory. Whence more memory has been added, these problems generally
go away.

Further, FreeNAS without using ZFS is not really something to do. If you don't want ZFS, then you don't want
FreeNAS.

Last, snapshots take no memory, just disk space.

...
What about going OMV, NAS4Free or Fedora instead of Freenas? Keeping in mind that i need to backup 45 users, so it´s not a "home use" NAS.

Most servers benefits from more RAM. In ZFS' case, (which can also be used on NAS4Free), more RAM is
required. This includes, but is not limited to: ARC, (Adaptive Read Cache), COW, (Copy On Write), and creating
TXGs, (Transaction Groups, used for writing to disk).

You could "roll your own" backup server, including your hardware limits and with Linux or other OS. This forum
is for FreeNAS, thus we want users to have reliable server if they run FreeNAS.

@Arwen ... I was planning to run my backups with "YadisBackup".
...
Is RSync able to do what i need?

Sorry, I know nothing aboutt"YadisBackup", "Dropbox", or "Cobian Backup". Nor do I follow MS-Windows
or MacOS.

 

[Stux]

But seriously, how can your time be worth less than 4GB of RAM?

 

[Ramon Sanchez]

Hi all. Thanks for your support.

I managed to get lower prices and convinced my boss about the advantages of investing a little more.
So here is the updated list:

MOTHERBOARD: Supermicro X10SLL-F (instead of the S model just in case we want to grow in RAM).
PROCESSOR: Dual Core G3260 (LGA1150, 3.3GHz).
RAM: Starting with 1x8GB Kingston Kvr16e11/8 >>>> DDR3, 1600MHz, ECC, unbuffered, 1.5v, CL11.
HDD: 2 x WD4000F9YZ (4TB each)
RAID: RAID 1... Software based if possible.
POWER SUPPLY: 400W, EVGA 100-n1-0400-l1
CASE: Aerocool Strike-x One... This case is kinda ugly (haha) but it allows me to install up to 6 x 3.5 HDD´s. And i consider that it has nice air flow and space.
My other option would be the Eagle Warrior Cg05r. It is cheaper, but it seems that only allows to install 4 x 3.5HDD´s.
Dunno, a matter of money will make choice the case...

Do you think I´ll be ok with 8GB? I will only make backups of the 45 users. It WILL NOT be the default storage location for the users, it will not be a shared network unit, it will only be a backup directory.

Do you recommend any software to install on the machines and send the backups to the NAS?

 

[anodos]

Hi all. Thanks for your support.

I managed to get lower prices and convinced my boss about the advantages of investing a little more.
So here is the updated list:

MOTHERBOARD: Supermicro X10SLL-F (instead of the S model just in case we want to grow in RAM).
PROCESSOR: Dual Core G3260 (LGA1150, 3.3GHz).
RAM: Starting with 1x8GB Kingston Kvr16e11/8 >>>> DDR3, 1600MHz, ECC, unbuffered, 1.5v, CL11.
HDD: 2 x WD4000F9YZ (4TB each)
RAID: RAID 1... Software based if possible.
POWER SUPPLY: 400W, EVGA 100-n1-0400-l1
CASE: Aerocool Strike-x One... This case is kinda ugly (haha) but it allows me to install up to 6 x 3.5 HDD´s. And i consider that it has nice air flow and space.
My other option would be the Eagle Warrior Cg05r. It is cheaper, but it seems that only allows to install 4 x 3.5HDD´s.
Dunno, a matter of money will make choice the case...

Do you think I´ll be ok with 8GB? I will only make backups of the 45 users. It WILL NOT be the default storage location for the users, it will not be a shared network unit, it will only be a backup directory.

Do you recommend any software to install on the machines and send the backups to the NAS?

How are they backing up? What are they backing up? How frequently? 45 simultaneous users?

 

[Ramon Sanchez]

Hi anodos.

When first installed the server, there were like 10 users, so the IT provider created a folder redirection policy in the server.
That way, the users would save their info "in the server" and keep it safe in case of disaster, and that´s what they actually use.
Maybe this worked at the beginning, but now it is giving a lot of troubles, specially with big files like .PST´s wich get easily damaged.
Even excel files get damaged, that´s why i want to stop that policy and let the users to save their documents in their machines (avoiding data corruption due to bad syncs).
But i can´t be running without a backup, so i will deploy the NAS.

In summary, the only "backup" method that is currently implemented is the folder redirection.
Yes, we can say this is is simultaneous since it is a "sync"...
But it does not cover all the 45 users due to storage capacity (only 1tb in the server).
The files that are going to be backed up are: Excel, Word, Powerpnt, Outlook (pst), pictures, pdf, xml... So the bigger files are PST´s.
I´m planning to use Cobian Backup if i don´t get anything better.

Yes, that´s horrific, there are users running with no backup at all.
I recently got this job and found this disaster that none of the previous IT providers cared about.
Asked the corporate for help but did not received any.

Thanks!

 

[Dice]

A trick to have a lot of users backing up to the machine would be to spread the back up time across the day to ease pressure of the NAS.

 

[Ramon Sanchez]

A trick to have a lot of users backing up to the machine would be to spread the back up time across the day to ease pressure of the NAS.

Where can i find something like a manual that could guide me to do that? I´m really new into freenas. I have worked with Kubuntu, Ubuntu and Fedora but i do not have a deep knowledge.

 

[Dice]

If you can figure out how to schedule a backup. Then you can figure the rest out too.

 

[rovan]

I know this might be off-topic but you should try not to use network shares for Outlook *.pst it is an unsupported configuration and can result in data loss / curruption of the pst /Outlook hanging / poor performance etc. I know it's convenient but you should understand the risks and limitations.

 

[Ramon Sanchez]

I know this might be off-topic but you should try not to use network shares for Outlook *.pst it is an unsupported configuration and can result in data loss / curruption of the pst /Outlook hanging / poor performance etc. I know it's convenient but you should understand the risks and limitations.

Thanks Rovan. Yes, i know about this limitation and all the risks. So not, i don´t find it convenient.
My aim is to get rid of that policy that i did not implemented and let the users work locally. Whenever i want to backup the pst file, i will back it up to the NAS.