FreeNAS 11.3-BETA1 - Now available!

mccann73

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Dec 11, 2013
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Updated to FreeNAS 11.3-BETA1 from 11.2u5, after the reboot it tried to display a older version of the new UI, some bits worked and some didn't, very strange issue, after clearing the browser cache it completely resolved, displaying the latest UI.

I have to say I like the UI improvements, seems a lot cleaner and the reporting page looks a lot better, look forward to the second BETA release.
 

Adrian

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Jun 29, 2011
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I have been bitten by weird problems when updating from 11.2-U5 to 11.2-U6 which vanished when I cleared the Chrome cache for the machine name and IP.
I hope to make clearing the cache a routine part of any FreeBSD upgrade.
 
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Kris Moore

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But as I know, jails cannot have higher version than FreeNAS base system, but you got the point

Yes and no. 11.2-U7 drops in a few weeks, and we'll be relaxing the restriction so you can deploy / upgrade 11.3 jails on it.

FreeBSD 11 is ABI stable, so with a few exceptions for things like kernel modules, most binaries / packages / jails on 11.3 run just fine on 11.2. Users don't typically load kernel modules in jails anyway, since its restricted. What you can't do is run 12.0 jails on 11.X kernel.

 
Last edited:

Kris Moore

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Kris Moore

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What are the planned timescales for FreeNAS 12 which I assume will be built on FreeBSD 12.x? I'm also assuming it's not another 12 months, otherwise, FreeBSD jails will likely become unable to update.

Targeting Beta Q2 if at all possible. This will be faster release since we don't have to do quite so much UI work to get it out the door.
 

Kelly Hays

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Yes and no. 11.2-U7 drops in a few weeks, and we'll be relaxing the restriction so you can deploy / upgrade 11.3 jails on it.

FreeBSD 11 is ABI stable, so with a few exceptions for things like kernel modules, most binaries / packages / jails on 11.3 run just fine on 11.2. Users don't typically load kernel modules in jails anyway, since its restricted. What you can't do is run 12.0 jails on 11.X kernel.

Is there a way to test this on 11.2-U6 independent of the other 11.2-U7 changes?
 

Junicast

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Mar 6, 2015
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Little known fact, we also have backported fixes from FreeBSD 12 and 13 into 11.2/3, so don't get too hung up on the version number these days :)
Well that's nice to know. On the other hand wouldn't it be much easier to just use newer FreeBSD versions? That way you wouldn't have to backport and we could use jails based upon that very version.
 

Kris Moore

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Well that's nice to know. On the other hand wouldn't it be much easier to just use newer FreeBSD versions? That way you wouldn't have to backport and we could use jails based upon that very version.

It sure would! However the OS is the foundation that everything else is built upon. It's a big effort from a QA standpoint to just upgrade the OS. FreeNAS is made up of a pretty diverse set of packages on top of FreeBSD. More often than not when we update the OS, we then spend weeks or sometimes months chasing down all the breakages that occur throughout the rest of the software stack. FreeBSD doesn't really do any QA themselves beyond the kernel / base OS. So we often get stuck fixing things in Python, Samba, Node, etc etc.
 

xlf

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FreeNAS 11.2 is not based upon FreeBSD 11.2-release. we track 11-stable and backport / apply security fixes as needed. We don't rely on FreeBSD to handle updates, security or otherwise to our system.

Kris,
surely lots of users do use jails extensively. Unfortunately, we do not get the whole ports tree and packages backported from iXsystems, do we? I would really love to keep my public-facing services on 465, 587, 993, 80, 443... a little closer to current patch level without having to set "ALLOW_UNSUPPORTED_SYSTEM=yes". Yesterday, i had to fight my way through this, trying to renew my letsencrypt certificates, which i do from within one of my jails. It really drained the love for freenas. The official packages ("up to date") are so ancient, LE changed the API inbetween and gave me the "gentle treatment".

Really, it's not a fine line to walk between FreeBSD-development and EOL, it's a broadway on that ridge. Falling off that EOL cliff is not going to raise the confidence in FreeNAS, really. You need to publish 11.3-RELEASE ASAP, and then up the pace, iXsystems.
 

xlf

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Yes and no. 11.2-U7 drops in a few weeks, and we'll be relaxing the restriction so you can deploy / upgrade 11.3 jails on it.

Then, why the heaven is there no well documented command line option in iocage to have it not croak on me when trying that. "A few weeks more" on waiting for this fix - should've been done in U6 or well beforehand.

People are running freenas release for production, please be so considerate to at least make that trick happen within the 3-month transition period. We need to chase the breakages as well, and you push us into ports/pkg/install from git kerfuffle.
 

Jailer

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@xlf I agree with your sentiment but at the end of the day FreeNAS is a storage appliance designed to be used on a private and secured network. Jails are just an extra to add some nice additional functionality to the system. If you have mission critical internet facing services you might consider some other vehicle for managing them such as a vanilla FreeBSD install that you can keep up to date. And be ready to keep that up to date often as well since the FreeBSD support model has changed pretty drastically in the last few years.

Trust me I'd like to see things kept up to date as well but unfortunately it's just not an option with FreeNAS.
 

Yorick

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This. I have wondered why ix even does FreeNAS with jails and plugins. It’s very much home use and not enterprise, it’s free, so that’s a lot of effort expended on something that at first glance looks like a labor of love.

The best explanation I’ve come up with so far is that a) FreeNAS serves as a canary for truenas, so supporting all the floofy home features such as plugins is worth it and b) there might actually be enough sales of FreeNAS boxen to consumers to defray the cost of developing FreeNAS

There may also be an SMB market where these plugins make sense ... and, hoo boy the ratio of effort to buck turned in SMB. There’s a reason that market is often left to small players, while the bigger ones go after Enterprise.

I think where this lengthy thought dump leads to is: FreeNAS is a freebie, a gimme. By all means file bug reports, ixsystems is responsive to those. And, to complain that the free thing you are getting is not updated rapidly enough or is unsuitable for mission critical web services: I experience some cognitive dissonance trying to take that in.

I am guilty of the “almost pathological need to have the latest Plex version” that someone on these forums hilariously diagnosed. It’s one reason why I run the beta. So I can have the latest Plex with new features that don’t apply to my use case, heh. I’ll live if some jail is on an older version for a while.

Wordpress blog and forum: Hosted on OVH and AWS respectively. Got to have the latest security fixes, they are public facing.

Home storage, Plex, and an Ubuntu bhyve to play around with Foundry VTT: On FreeNAS. They can be a little out of date and no one really cares.
 

appliance

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So far no problems with 11.3. UI got better. One change is rather less productive: the tables now have ">" in each row to expand into quick view and after that, you can 'Edit'. You can multi-edit, which is great. However
- the ">" sign is small and hard to click
- the '>' sign is usually hidden on the right side, so have to scroll right to click, then 'Edit' button becomes available, but again have to scroll left to see it. i'd prefer whole row to be clickable or have the menus like before or have the sign on the left side
 

Jailer

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So far no problems with 11.3. UI got better. One change is rather less productive: the tables now have ">" in each row to expand into quick view and after that, you can 'Edit'. You can multi-edit, which is great. However
- the ">" sign is small and hard to click
- the '>' sign is usually hidden on the right side, so have to scroll right to click, then 'Edit' button becomes available, but again have to scroll left to see it. i'd prefer whole row to be clickable or have the menus like before or have the sign on the left side
File a bug report.
 

jgreco

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Some companies ran FreeBSD 4.x for a decade or more :)

That had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the fact that FreeBSD 5 and 6 were complete train wrecks. I absolutely enjoyed typing "ipfw <something>" on our FreeBSD 6 hosts and having the kernel panic about every other time.

I am just curious if FreeNAS devs can keep up with FreeBSD support life, just checked BSD site and there is written that 11.2 is EOL from 31.10.2019.
11.3 beta is out but just for testers, this is kinda interesting approach to let users in production stay out of date for 2-3 months...

One of the misconceptions about security is that staying patched is some magic fix to security. It isn't. Your FreeBSD box always has root available. No amount of patching removes the root login. The challenge is to prevent an intruder from being able to ACCESS it. Being patched is a good strategy in many cases, especially for the average user, but hardening the OS, running a strong on-host firewall, removing unnecessary suid bits, not running unnecessary services, and running jails that do not contain /bin/sh are a much stronger deterrent to network-based attacks. The problem is that this is an engineering challenge to do well, but it can be (and is) done. Sometimes patches and updates are prudent or necessary. Sometimes they aren't.

FreeNAS is more difficult to secure because of the nature of the services it has to be able to provide. There is a huge attack surface, and the easiest way to secure it is by not letting it hang all out there for the world to poke at. I would generally like to see it have a smaller attack surface, but I'm not sure how that could be done without compromising some of the capabilities. So in the meantime it is very important that you keep it tucked away on a nice secure storage network somewhere.
 

seanm

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I think where this lengthy thought dump leads to is: FreeNAS is a freebie, a gimme. By all means file bug reports, ixsystems is responsive to those. And, to complain that the free thing you are getting is not updated rapidly enough or is unsuitable for mission critical web services: I experience some cognitive dissonance trying to take that in.

Well, some of us spent thousands of dollars buying systems from iX.

I'm still pretty happy with having done so, but I've now given up on the idea of running jails on it, which was one of the cool things that attracted me to the product. Instead I'll have to run VMs, which is a bit more overhead, but the only way to run anything public-facing safely it seems. @jgreco is right that staying patched is not a magic fix, but it is a necessary minimum.
 

seanm

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It sure would! However the OS is the foundation that everything else is built upon. It's a big effort from a QA standpoint to just upgrade the OS. FreeNAS is made up of a pretty diverse set of packages on top of FreeBSD. More often than not when we update the OS, we then spend weeks or sometimes months chasing down all the breakages that occur throughout the rest of the software stack. FreeBSD doesn't really do any QA themselves beyond the kernel / base OS. So we often get stuck fixing things in Python, Samba, Node, etc etc.

@Kris Moore As a professional programmer myself, this got me wondering... have you worked to automate some of this? I'm not familiar with samba development at all, but it seems they do have a build & test infrastructure:


Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but I don't see any FreeBSD bots there. Setting that up could help catch problems earlier.
 

jgreco

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@jgreco is right that staying patched is not a magic fix, but it is a necessary minimum.

Well, no, that's not what I said. If you do system hardening, patching without downtime becomes effectively impossible. But it's also unnecessary for most vulnerabilities.

The vast majority of vulnerabilities require that an attacker gain some form of access to a system. You can't exploit something like FreeBSD-SA-19:23-midi from remote. You have to gain a local non-root shell and then you might be able to wrangle root out of it.

Other attacks such as FreeBSD-SA-19:18-bzip2 can be externally influenced (i.e. by providing corrupted data on an external patch archive) but require that the local administrator trigger that process. There's a bunch of irony that it's actually patching your system that allows susceptibility to that vulnerability, sigh.

FreeBSD-SA-19:04-ntp could be problematic but in general you shouldn't be configuring your system to allow mode 6 from most other hosts. This and other network-based attacks is by far the most problematic class of attacks which may require patching. 19:04-ntp *shouldn't* require patching if you configure your hosts with a firewall that only lets your hosts talk to your site NTP servers, though. (Yes, I realize most people don't bother to set up site DNS recursers or site NTP servers these days, shame on them.)

So the real question is what's actually a risk. SA-19:23-midi isn't an issue if you don't have a local account. On most systems running conventional FreeBSD, where people drink the ports kool-aid, you do your happy ports-based install of Apache and PHP and you install any of the routinely-probed-for PHP crapware with every-other-week vulnerability, and, yes, sooner or later (hint: sooner), a bad guy will find his way to a /bin/sh-exposing vulnerability in your web app, and then use 19:23-midi because your Apache install was never secure.

What's *better* is to run an Apache install that's jailed. And I don't mean installing a full FreeBSD image in a jail and then installing Apache in *that* - that's approximately just as insecure and problematic as running it in the base. I mean literally running a jail that doesn't contain a /bin/sh, and where the only things running in it are Apache, PHP, and other necessary support files. This is strong protection against the skript kiddiez.

The other thing is compartmentalization. If you run a single host with ten services on it, that's ten points of entry, and a vulnerability in any one of those means that an attacker who can get in via one of them can then rummage around as root and subvert some of the other nine, or exfil some of the data from those other services. When you run a single host with your web site and your blog and your customer data in MySQL and your e-mail all on that one host, you're asking for a world of hurt. Run each thing as a separate VM.

Patching plays a role. Any service that's actually exposed to the public should of course be patched to the gills. But there's a lot of things you can do with design and architecture that are a lot more effective at controlling the attack surface and risk factors. It's just a shame that these aren't commonly applied.
 

survive

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Yes, please do


The Legacy UI can be enabled and used in 11.3, however we recommend the new UI for all tasks at this point. If you run into issues with the new UI, please file a bug report and we'll investigate.

Hi Kris,

Can you confirm that the legacy GUI is still available in 11.3? Dru says it's not, you say it is, who's right? More importantly, if it's there how to I switch?

Personally I can't stand the new GUI, to much wasted space & an overwhelming feeling of Corral v.2 make it a very unattractive option for me.

-Will
 
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